WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[xdrta+]

You mean the days when the Warriors were the most feared team in NBA history? Yeah what an inappropriate time to romanticize stuff for a Warriors fan.

It's definitely strange to romanticize the role that Bell, Jones, or McGee had in that time.

Bell as I have stated earlier played a critical role in one of the most important games of the entire championship Warriors run. It seems he is now an unsung hero of that 2018 Warriors playoffs.

McGee a player who was on the edge of being out of the NBA for good at the start of the season if I recall correctly had the highest true shooting efficiency rating of all players during the 2017 playoffs.

Don't you have any recollection whatsoever of their contributions? I guess you just aren't interested in the details.

Oh, please, I recollect exactly what contributions they made, which is about what any below-average front court player could have provided. This has been borne out by their less than sterling careers since, as they passed into NBA obscurity.

[WarriorGM]

It's definitely strange to romanticize the role that Bell, Jones, or McGee had in that time.

Bell as I have stated earlier played a critical role in one of the most important games of the entire championship Warriors run. It seems he is now an unsung hero of that 2018 Warriors playoffs.

McGee a player who was on the edge of being out of the NBA for good at the start of the season if I recall correctly had the highest true shooting efficiency rating of all players during the 2017 playoffs.

Don't you have any recollection whatsoever of their contributions? I guess you just aren't interested in the details.

Oh, please, I recollect exactly what contributions they made, which is about what any below-average front court player could have provided. This has been borne out by their less than sterling careers since, as they passed into NBA obscurity.

Well these below average front court players as you put it as I've said earlier respectively put up the highest plus-minus in the most important game of 2018 and the highest TS% of the entire 2017 playoffs. Those facts seem to contradict the notion they were only capable of being below average. But you seem to want to show more contempt for them than appreciation despite their helping the team win. Just like Kerr. Well the Warriors now have Wiseman and you probably consider that an improvement. Good luck with the next 10 years of mediocrity in front of you if he's the one you're pinning your hopes on.

[xdrta+]

Bell as I have stated earlier played a critical role in one of the most important games of the entire championship Warriors run. It seems he is now an unsung hero of that 2018 Warriors playoffs.

McGee a player who was on the edge of being out of the NBA for good at the start of the season if I recall correctly had the highest true shooting efficiency rating of all players during the 2017 playoffs.

Don't you have any recollection whatsoever of their contributions? I guess you just aren't interested in the details.

Oh, please, I recollect exactly what contributions they made, which is about what any below-average front court player could have provided. This has been borne out by their less than sterling careers since, as they passed into NBA obscurity.

Well these below average front court players as you put it as I've said earlier respectively put up the highest plus-minus in the most important game of the 2018 and the highest TS% of the entire 2017 playoffs. Those facts seem to contradict the notion they were only capable of being below average. But you seem to want to show more contempt for them than appreciation despite their helping the team win. Just like Kerr. Well the Warriors now have Wiseman and you probably consider that an improvement. Good luck with the next 10 years of mediocrity in front of you if he's the one you're pinning your hopes on.

You make large jumps in your assumptions, based on nothing but your biases.

[WarriorGM]

Oh, please, I recollect exactly what contributions they made, which is about what any below-average front court player could have provided. This has been borne out by their less than sterling careers since, as they passed into NBA obscurity.

Well these below average front court players as you put it as I've said earlier respectively put up the highest plus-minus in the most important game of the 2018 and the highest TS% of the entire 2017 playoffs. Those facts seem to contradict the notion they were only capable of being below average. But you seem to want to show more contempt for them than appreciation despite their helping the team win. Just like Kerr. Well the Warriors now have Wiseman and you probably consider that an improvement. Good luck with the next 10 years of mediocrity in front of you if he's the one you're pinning your hopes on.

You make large jumps in your assumptions, based on nothing but your biases.

What I see is you being argumentative with me and I wonder why? Does it have something to do with the following?

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

I have my biases. What are yours?

[Sleepy51]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

[and1GS]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

[WarriorGM]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

It may indeed be the case that Bell was a hopelessly self-absorbed headcase who was doomed to crash out of the league one way or another. But I cannot help but get the feeling from the stories I've heard that he was in some ways set up to fail and that the coaching staff displayed no interest and exerted no effort at all in trying to get him to succeed beyond just the defined parameters of their job.

The coaches say that a practice is optional. Bell takes the statement literally and doesn't read between the lines. Perhaps this is a legitimate tactic that the coaches employ to weed out players who have the work ethic they are looking for and separate them from lazy sloths who won't work on their game. But it does have duplicitous characteristics and disadvantages people who just aren't savvy.

Then there was the prank incident where Bell was enticed to put himself in a compromising situation in the name of a prank. Yes it showed he was immature and that he displayed very poor judgment. But it had nothing to do with playing basketball.

One can easily imagine both these incidents earning Bell a place in Kerr's doghouse. I am concerned though that both of them look like traps. They are games being played akin to office politics and related to being a favorite or not of the coaching staff. Did Kerr just form a negative opinion of Bell and that was that and Bell was doomed on the Warriors from then on? Or did Kerr put in some effort and take Bell aside after the first faux pas and tell him directly what was expected of him and how he would succeed or fail without all the mind games? If the former I consider that a failure on Kerr's part. In my view the coaching staff should have recognized Bell's talent and given him the best opportunity to succeed. If they on the other hand took the line that Bell is an adult and it's not their job to get him to succeed and he wasn't worth exerting any effort to do so then I see that again as a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

[Old_Blue]

Great. This story has now gone mainstream. My grandfather (who's not even a basketball fan) but who starts his morning with freaking Yahoo read this and said "Sounds like this Durant character is trying to mess with your team."

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/kevin-durant-offering-advice-james-030635843.html

[xdrta+]

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left.

You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.

[WarriorGM]

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left.

You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.

And you lose what little credibility you have when you fail to answer my question:

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

[DonaldSanders]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

This is a strange anti-Kerr narrative you have invented yourself and doesn't have weight behind it.

[WarriorGM]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

This is a strange anti-Kerr narrative you have invented yourself and doesn't have weight behind it.

All the clues and hints are there for anybody to see. I didn't invent any of that.

[xdrta+]

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left.

You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.

And you lose what little credibility you have when you fail to answer my question:

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

Good grief, you're still riding that hobbyhorse. Get help.

[DonaldSanders]

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

This is a strange anti-Kerr narrative you have invented yourself and doesn't have weight behind it.

All the clues and hints are there for anybody to see. I didn't invent any of that.

Actually you have.

You made logical leaps and assumptions that are not grounded in fact.

The best guess is that KD left because his ego wasn't getting stroked by winning, all he did was get criticism from the outside world. He left to try to get a chip "on his own." Kerr didn't make KD leave, please.

Javale left due to playing time, that's not Kerr being "cold" or McGee not liking Kerr.

[WarriorGM]

You lose what little credibility you have when you state these opinions as though they are fact. You have no idea if they are true or not but that doesn't seem to matter to you. What is true, that you don't seem to realize, is that both Bell and Jones have little talent and haven't been able to stick with any NBA team.

And you lose what little credibility you have when you fail to answer my question:

Stephen Curry is the best player in the NBA. Agree or disagree?

Good grief, you're still riding that hobbyhorse. Get help.

And you could simply just answer the question.

This is a strange anti-Kerr narrative you have invented yourself and doesn't have weight behind it.

All the clues and hints are there for anybody to see. I didn't invent any of that.

Actually you have.

You made logical leaps and assumptions that are not grounded in fact.

The best guess is that KD left because his ego wasn't getting stroked by winning, all he did was get criticism from the outside world. He left to try to get a chip "on his own." Kerr didn't make KD leave, please.

Javale left due to playing time, that's not Kerr being "cold" or McGee not liking Kerr.

There are certainly other reasons that probably contributed more to KD leaving but it's been generally reported he didn't like Kerr's system and unlike the players on the team I am unaware of any personal private communication between him and Kerr since he left. From my understanding KD felt that playing more aggressively might have shortened some of their series. Having injured himself right before the later parts of the playoffs and possibly missed out on another championship I could see why he might hold some grievance if he felt he could have played less and avoided injury playing in a different system.

As I recall JaVale also took exception to Kerr implying that JaVale couldn't play long continuous minutes due to JaVale's asthma. I could easily see JaVale being mad at that since he could consider it a lie that undercuts his abilities, negotiating position, and prospects with other teams. He was already having to deal with the narrative that he was a bit of a dunce with all the Shaqtin hate and probably didn't appreciate being further undermined by his own coach.

[whatisacenter]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

It may indeed be the case that Bell was a hopelessly self-absorbed headcase who was doomed to crash out of the league one way or another. But I cannot help but get the feeling from the stories I've heard that he was in some ways set up to fail and that the coaching staff displayed no interest and exerted no effort at all in trying to get him to succeed beyond just the defined parameters of their job.

The coaches say that a practice is optional. Bell takes the statement literally and doesn't read between the lines. Perhaps this is a legitimate tactic that the coaches employ to weed out players who have the work ethic they are looking for and separate them from lazy sloths who won't work on their game. But it does have duplicitous characteristics and disadvantages people who just aren't savvy.

Then there was the prank incident where Bell was enticed to put himself in a compromising situation in the name of a prank. Yes it showed he was immature and that he displayed very poor judgment. But it had nothing to do with playing basketball.

One can easily imagine both these incidents earning Bell a place in Kerr's doghouse. I am concerned though that both of them look like traps. They are games being played akin to office politics and related to being a favorite or not of the coaching staff. Did Kerr just form a negative opinion of Bell and that was that and Bell was doomed on the Warriors from then on? Or did Kerr put in some effort and take Bell aside after the first faux pas and tell him directly what was expected of him and how he would succeed or fail without all the games? If the former I consider that a failure on Kerr's part. In my view the coaching staff should have recognized Bell's talent and given him the best opportunity to succeed. If they on the other hand took the line that Bell is an adult and it's not their job to get him to succeed and he wasn't worth exerting any effort to do so then I see that again as a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

you are all over the place in this thread from advanced stats to single game +- to gothic romance with your "There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with". WTF man?

[WarriorGM]

I am not going to invest anybody my time in an advanced stats context lesson about Jordan Dumbassed Bell. He's a bum and he wouldn't show up for fookin practice.

It may indeed be the case that Bell was a hopelessly self-absorbed headcase who was doomed to crash out of the league one way or another. But I cannot help but get the feeling from the stories I've heard that he was in some ways set up to fail and that the coaching staff displayed no interest and exerted no effort at all in trying to get him to succeed beyond just the defined parameters of their job.

The coaches say that a practice is optional. Bell takes the statement literally and doesn't read between the lines. Perhaps this is a legitimate tactic that the coaches employ to weed out players who have the work ethic they are looking for and separate them from lazy sloths who won't work on their game. But it does have duplicitous characteristics and disadvantages people who just aren't savvy.

Then there was the prank incident where Bell was enticed to put himself in a compromising situation in the name of a prank. Yes it showed he was immature and that he displayed very poor judgment. But it had nothing to do with playing basketball.

One can easily imagine both these incidents earning Bell a place in Kerr's doghouse. I am concerned though that both of them look like traps. They are games being played akin to office politics and related to being a favorite or not of the coaching staff. Did Kerr just form a negative opinion of Bell and that was that and Bell was doomed on the Warriors from then on? Or did Kerr put in some effort and take Bell aside after the first faux pas and tell him directly what was expected of him and how he would succeed or fail without all the games? If the former I consider that a failure on Kerr's part. In my view the coaching staff should have recognized Bell's talent and given him the best opportunity to succeed. If they on the other hand took the line that Bell is an adult and it's not their job to get him to succeed and he wasn't worth exerting any effort to do so then I see that again as a failure on the part of the coaching staff.

Take the above and then add the following:

McGee didn't like Kerr and left. KD didn't like Kerr and left. As a fan of Steph I view Kerr as far too business-like in his relationship with Curry.

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

you are all over the place in this thread from advanced stats to single game +- to gothic romance with your "There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with". WTF man?

All you guys are going "WTF?"

But I think I've been able to present reasons and support for my suppositions.

On the other hand despite the quick denials and exclamations I've elicited from you guys I haven't actually heard much in terms of a substantive rebuttal. Perhaps you should compose yourselves first, digest the theory presented, and figure out what you really want to say before going on the attack in defense of Kerr's honor or something.

[DonaldSanders]

On the other hand despite the quick denials and exclamations I've elicited from you guys I haven't actually heard much in terms of a substantive rebuttal. Perhaps you should compost yourselves first, digest the theory presented, and figure out what you really want to say before going on the attack in defense of Kerr's honor or something.

Multiple people have already thoroughly rebutted you multiple times.

There are certainly other reasons that probably contributed more to KD leaving but it's been generally reported he didn't like Kerr's system and unlike the players on the team I am unaware of any personal private communication between him and Kerr since he left. From my understanding KD felt that playing more aggressively might have shortened some of their series. Having injured himself right before the later parts of the finals and possibly missed out on another championship I could see why he might have some grievance he felt he could have played less and avoided injury playing a different system.

As I recall JaVale also took exception to Kerr implying that JaVale couldn't play long continuous minutes due to JaVale's asthma. I could easily see JaVale being mad at that since he could consider it a lie that undercuts his abilities, negotiating position, and prospects with other teams. He was already having to deal with the narrative that he was a bit of a dunce with all the Shaqtin hate and probably didn't appreciate being further undermined by his own coach.

You're focusing on just his comment on asthma and ignoring all the times Steve has said nice things about Javale:

Watch on YouTube

"Javale has been fantastic for us -- as a player, as a teammate, fantastic guy"
"I had a pre-conceived notion of Javale before he got here that turned out to be totally false"

Javale left for the same money and more playing time on a LeBron James contendor. Sometimes the reasons for someone leaving aren't a grievance with the former team. Javale re-vitalized his career playing here, I'd say he had a good experience and just moved on to a better opportunity.

KD wanted more isolation, but what he wanted most was more credit for winning. He couldn't get that in GS anymore.

[whatisacenter]

There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with.

you are all over the place in this thread from advanced stats to single game +- to gothic romance with your "There is a coldness to Kerr that I'm not comfortable with". WTF man?

All you guys are going "WTF?"

But I think I've been able to present reasons and support for my suppositions.

On the other hand despite the quick denials and exclamations I've elicited from you guys I haven't actually heard much in terms of a substantive rebuttal. Perhaps you should compose yourselves first, digest the theory presented, and figure out what you really want to say before going on the attack in defense of Kerr's honor or something.

Digested version: you really like Jordan Bell and I am comfortable with Kerr's "coldness".

[WarriorGM]

Multiple people have already thoroughly rebutted you multiple times.

I don't see these thorough rebuttals you are referring to. Maybe we just have different standards when it comes to what constitutes a "thorough rebuttal".

You're focusing on just his comment on asthma and ignoring all the times Steve has said nice things about Javale:

"Javale has been fantastic for us -- as a player, as a teammate, fantastic guy"
"I had a pre-conceived notion of Javale before he got here that turned out to be totally false"

Standard press release stuff. This is another one of my problems with Kerr. Not that I listen to him all that closely—I don't—but I haven't really heard a comment from him that struck me as genuinely heartfelt or the kind of thing one goes out of the way to say due to authentic appreciation. I might be unfair but it all sounds by the numbers with him. I haven't heard anything from Kerr remotely close to the praise Morey heaped on Harden which he further backed up by trying to trade for him at the first opportunity and get him on the Sixers.

Stephen Curry has made Kerr look like a genius. But I wouldn't be at all surprised from what I've seen so far of Kerr if after all is said and done that he is going to say that he thinks Michael Jordan is the greatest player to ever play, LeBron is the greatest player of this era and Durant is the best player he's ever coached. He's a traditionally minded orthodox guy despite his innovation which he largely swiped from others and he says whatever he thinks is the popular thing to say. Despite having cultivated the image of a woke guy—and to be fair he probably is to a degree—he's not going to be the guy who sends out a tweet like the one that got Morey in hot water.

Javale left for the same money and more playing time on a LeBron James contendor. Sometimes the reasons for someone leaving aren't a grievance with the former team. Javale re-vitalized his career playing here, I'd say he had a good experience and just moved on to a better opportunity.

Which is extremely odd if you take a moment to think about it. When I first heard the news I mentally congratulated him because I presumed he was leaving due to an increase in salary. When I heard it was just for the same amount I was gobsmacked. Why leave??? What's a LeBron contender next to the greatest team of all-time? LeBron might even be considered "the enemy". I haven't heard anything close to a rational answer yet from any of you that explains it.

If everything is fine and dandy between the Warriors and JaVale why doesn't the team invite him on the team now or whenever he becomes a free agent? Or why not even make a play for him? He knows the system. He's played with Steph and Draymond before and looked good with them. He'd probably be cheap to acquire. He should be very kindly disposed towards the Warriors for reviving his career. So why not? What's stopping this obvious pickup? But there's not a peep of him rejoining. Explain that.

KD wanted more isolation, but what he wanted most was more credit for winning. He couldn't get that in GS anymore.

Fair enough. But that's just regurgitating previous answers.