I told you guys that Jordan Poole was going to impress.

[a8bil]

For you old timers...does Poole remind anyone else of John Starks?

[and1GS]

I do not know you, but you are one handsome SOB.

[The-Power]

I'm glad he's playing well, but you can't criticize anyone who thought he was awful last season.

2019-20
Games - 57
MPG - 22.4
FG% - .357
3PT% - .279
FT% - .798
TS% - .454, 461st out of 529 players who played at all during the season

2020-21
Games 14
MPG - 11.7
FG% - .480
3PT% - .383
FT% - .923
TS% - .644, 43rd out of all players and three spots better than one Wardell Stephen Curry

If you saw him shooting like this based on how he played last year, then I want to know which dispensary you frequent. I hope he keeps it up. You can point to having a year of experience under his belt, being more effective in a limited role, or getting a boost playing in the G-league bubble, but that doesn't fully explain that type of leap. If you saw this coming, congrats.

The issue here is that you look at the entirety of last season as one data point when it is normal for Rookies to have ups and downs and – as in case of Poole – progression. Just look at his scoring efficiency and usage over the months.

Oct. (92 minutes): 37.9% TS, 20.6% USG
Nov. (432 minutes): 41.2% TS, 21.2% USG
Dec. (107 minutes): 21.2% TS, 18.7% USG
Jan. (263 minutes): 46.3% TS, 20.3% USG
Feb. (267 minutes): 54.7% TS, 23.0% USG
Mar. (113 minutes): 64.5% TS, 22.9% USG

So his three most efficient months were his last three months and the last two months he even increased his scoring volume. Over his last two months he actually already scored at above league average efficiency. The progression was very obvious. Also, Poole has played two years in college with pretty solid and consistent efficiency (57-58% TS) against good college competition. There was absolutely no reason to expect Poole to be doomed to crappy efficiency going forward.

I don't think anyone wants to argue that he wasn't awful last season. But being awful (past) and projecting to be (this) awful going forward are two different arguments entirely. Oubre was also never going to score as inefficiently as he did to start the season for an extended period of time. Anyone who thought Poole would continue to be a sub-50% TS scorer was always going to be wrong irrespective of his averages over the whole of last year.

[Outside]

I'm glad he's playing well, but you can't criticize anyone who thought he was awful last season.

2019-20
Games - 57
MPG - 22.4
FG% - .357
3PT% - .279
FT% - .798
TS% - .454, 461st out of 529 players who played at all during the season

2020-21
Games 14
MPG - 11.7
FG% - .480
3PT% - .383
FT% - .923
TS% - .644, 43rd out of all players and three spots better than one Wardell Stephen Curry

If you saw him shooting like this based on how he played last year, then I want to know which dispensary you frequent. I hope he keeps it up. You can point to having a year of experience under his belt, being more effective in a limited role, or getting a boost playing in the G-league bubble, but that doesn't fully explain that type of leap. If you saw this coming, congrats.

The issue here is that you look at the entirety of last season as one data point when it is normal for Rookies to have ups and downs and – as in case of Poole – progression. Just look at his scoring efficiency and usage over the months.

Oct. (92 minutes): 37.9% TS, 20.6% USG
Nov. (432 minutes): 41.2% TS, 21.2% USG
Dec. (107 minutes): 21.2% TS, 18.7% USG
Jan. (263 minutes): 46.3% TS, 20.3% USG
Feb. (267 minutes): 54.7% TS, 23.0% USG
Mar. (113 minutes): 64.5% TS, 22.9% USG

So his three most efficient months were his last three months and the last two months he even increased his scoring volume. Over his last two months he actually already scored at above league average efficiency. The progression was very obvious. Also, Poole has played two years in college with pretty solid and consistent efficiency (57-58% TS) against good college competition. There was absolutely no reason to expect Poole to be doomed to crappy efficiency going forward.

I don't think anyone wants to argue that he wasn't awful last season. But being awful (past) and projecting to be (this) awful going forward are two different arguments entirely. Oubre was also never going to score as inefficiently as he did to start the season for an extended period of time. Anyone who thought Poole would continue to be a sub-50% TS scorer was always going to be wrong irrespective of his averages over the whole of last year.

Nice counterpoint. I confess those first four months were etched into my brain when it came to forming my impression of his play. So many instances of "Poole shoots... and generic player on the other team gets the rebound" that it's like it was on a loop. But those stats make it clear that the last 2.5 months were far better than the first three, that he had clear progression during the season.

I'll also confess that I'm expecting his shooting to fall back from its current lofty heights. Would love for him to prove me wrong. If he can keep something near this level of shooting up and show consistency on the defensive end, then Lee or Mulder become expendable. Since I'd written him off (and I don't think I was alone in that), he'd be like found money.

[The-Power]

Nice counterpoint. I confess those first four months were etched into my brain when it came to forming my impression of his play. So many instances of "Poole shoots... and generic player on the other team gets the rebound" that it's like it was on a loop. But those stats make it clear that the last 2.5 months were far better than the first three, that he had clear progression during the season.

Yeah, it can take some time to change one's view once it has been carved into the brain. Just like some players with one excellent season continue to be held in higher regard than they should even if every season before and after has been a lot worse (*cough* Oladipo *cough*).

I'll also confess that I'm expecting his shooting to fall back from its current lofty heights. Would love for him to prove me wrong. If he can keep something near this level of shooting up and show consistency on the defensive end, then Lee or Mulder become expendable. Since I'd written him off (and I don't think I was alone in that), he'd be like found money.

I don't think we can expect Poole to keep his efficiency up. It's just as unrealistic to expect him to continue to score more efficiently than Steph Curry as it is to expect that he'll once again plummet to the bottom of the league. Realistically, he'll settle somewhere in between those two extremes – maybe around or a bit above league average (currently 57.2% TS) would be my expectation with the hot start for the time being.

[FNQ]

For you old timers...does Poole remind anyone else of John Starks?

ew dont ruin this

[FNQ]

BTW no one should have expected him to be a great backup or even a passable backup after last season.

But the idea that he was a complete bust and irredeemable after one year without any of our talented players flanking him.. just seemed crazy to me. He was a shooter thrown into an unfortunate circumstance and didnt thrive immediately. Ok, so he's not a gamebreaking talent. It didnt mean he wasn't a NBA player at all, which was the widely accepted theory around here.

That said I'll go one further and say that the sooner we bench Oubre for Poole, the better it will be for all of us.. We really should evaluate him in the Klay role. He provides guard skills we sorely lack, is a marksman, and can get white hot while still being somewhat frustrating.

Doesn't that sound *exactly* like Klay early on in his Warriors career? Except maybe trading some guard skills for defense (and of course that Klay is a much better shooter, but still, the archetype/trajectory looks pretty similar)

[SF_Warriors]

Yes! I am really hoping he keeps it up because in theory, his skillset is ideal for a bench player. Secondary ball handling, slashing ability, and solid shooting. Wouldnt mind if he got most of the backup perimeter minutes, with baze supplementing.

[watch1958]

I think the NBA comp for Poole is probably CJ McCollum. He is obviously not as good (and probably will not reach that peak) but his creativity and craftiness in scoring without relying on elite athleticism really looks quite like CJ. Mediocre (at best) defense as well

I was thinking more like Andre Miller selling his soul to the devil (along with half his defense) to be a cool scorer, cuz heady-steady point guards don't get KPOP singers.

[parsnips33]

So if Poole is legit (I want to believe) we've actually got some good young talent between him, EP, and Wiseman with potentially two more lottery picks after this year.

Nice collection of cheap talent, whether they play for us or get put together in a trade package.

[ILOVEIT]

This was the first game I've seen him look like a threat...to the OTHER team

Seriously....if he becomes good I was wrong.

[azwfan]

Ive been right on Poole the whole time. Cause when he sucks I say so, and in the games that he hasnt, Ive acknowledged that as well.

Hope he has turned the corner, but not holding my breath.

[Warriors Analyst]

BTW no one should have expected him to be a great backup or even a passable backup after last season.

But the idea that he was a complete bust and irredeemable after one year without any of our talented players flanking him.. just seemed crazy to me. He was a shooter thrown into an unfortunate circumstance and didnt thrive immediately. Ok, so he's not a gamebreaking talent. It didnt mean he wasn't a NBA player at all, which was the widely accepted theory around here.

That said I'll go one further and say that the sooner we bench Oubre for Poole, the better it will be for all of us.. We really should evaluate him in the Klay role. He provides guard skills we sorely lack, is a marksman, and can get white hot while still being somewhat frustrating.

Doesn't that sound *exactly* like Klay early on in his Warriors career? Except maybe trading some guard skills for defense (and of course that Klay is a much better shooter, but still, the archetype/trajectory looks pretty similar)

I like Poole playing minutes with Steph. Not sure how much I like him starting. I might be wrong about that. But I don't think his ideal goal is as Klay light, but rather a Lou Williams type who can spend time on and off ball. His FT percentages are great and he can make some difficult shots, but I don't think he's a high level movement shooter, but rather someone who is more likely to make difficult shots that he creates himself.

[FNQ]

BTW no one should have expected him to be a great backup or even a passable backup after last season.

But the idea that he was a complete bust and irredeemable after one year without any of our talented players flanking him.. just seemed crazy to me. He was a shooter thrown into an unfortunate circumstance and didnt thrive immediately. Ok, so he's not a gamebreaking talent. It didnt mean he wasn't a NBA player at all, which was the widely accepted theory around here.

That said I'll go one further and say that the sooner we bench Oubre for Poole, the better it will be for all of us.. We really should evaluate him in the Klay role. He provides guard skills we sorely lack, is a marksman, and can get white hot while still being somewhat frustrating.

Doesn't that sound *exactly* like Klay early on in his Warriors career? Except maybe trading some guard skills for defense (and of course that Klay is a much better shooter, but still, the archetype/trajectory looks pretty similar)

I like Poole playing minutes with Steph. Not sure how much I like him starting. I might be wrong about that. But I don't think his ideal goal is as Klay light, but rather a Lou Williams type who can spend time on and off ball. His FT percentages are great and he can make some difficult shots, but I don't think he's a high level movement shooter, but rather someone who is more likely to make difficult shots that he creates himself.

Obviously no one is going to replicate Klay, but Poole was drafted because of his catch-and-shoot ability. Was one of the better off-screen shooters IIRC.. I dont think its a goal, I think its something he already has in his tool belt, and we should definitely have a backup plan for Klay coming off 2 injury-marred years. There's no reason Poole can't slip into that role, and there's definitely not anyone out there who's going to give you more bang for your buck

[ILOVEIT]

For you old timers...does Poole remind anyone else of John Starks?

YES..but primarily his looks right? Although his jumper is similar...and movement.

[Dom801e]

I still think the better comp is Donovan Mitchell. Poole is not the elite athlete that Mitchell is, but he is above average and the way he moves reminds me of Mitchell. Obviously Mitchell started as a rookie and Poole hasn't played much this year. But if you compare their per 36 (I know not a great metric for low minutes guys) and advanced stats in their age 21 respective seasons there are commonalities.

[The-Power]

Ive been right on Poole the whole time. Cause when he sucks I say so, and in the games that he hasnt, Ive acknowledged that as well.

You also did not want us to pick up his option, and you were ready to trade him for basically anything iirc. So we'll see how right you'll have been about Poole soon.

Obviously no one is going to replicate Klay, but Poole was drafted because of his catch-and-shoot ability. Was one of the better off-screen shooters IIRC.. I dont think its a goal, I think its something he already has in his tool belt, and we should definitely have a backup plan for Klay coming off 2 injury-marred years. There's no reason Poole can't slip into that role, and there's definitely not anyone out there who's going to give you more bang for your buck

The issue I see is defense, not offense. Ideally, you want to give Poole the Curry-treatment and put him on the weakest perimeter player from the opposing team. That doesn't work anymore in the starting line-up and he'll have to step up. Not sure he has it in him to play even average on-ball defense. Possible that he develops that part of his game as we've seen with Klay but at this point I'd be more comfortable with him coming off the bench with the option to stay in longer and play more with the starters when he has his offense going.

[Warriors Analyst]

BTW no one should have expected him to be a great backup or even a passable backup after last season.

But the idea that he was a complete bust and irredeemable after one year without any of our talented players flanking him.. just seemed crazy to me. He was a shooter thrown into an unfortunate circumstance and didnt thrive immediately. Ok, so he's not a gamebreaking talent. It didnt mean he wasn't a NBA player at all, which was the widely accepted theory around here.

That said I'll go one further and say that the sooner we bench Oubre for Poole, the better it will be for all of us.. We really should evaluate him in the Klay role. He provides guard skills we sorely lack, is a marksman, and can get white hot while still being somewhat frustrating.

Doesn't that sound *exactly* like Klay early on in his Warriors career? Except maybe trading some guard skills for defense (and of course that Klay is a much better shooter, but still, the archetype/trajectory looks pretty similar)

I like Poole playing minutes with Steph. Not sure how much I like him starting. I might be wrong about that. But I don't think his ideal goal is as Klay light, but rather a Lou Williams type who can spend time on and off ball. His FT percentages are great and he can make some difficult shots, but I don't think he's a high level movement shooter, but rather someone who is more likely to make difficult shots that he creates himself.

Obviously no one is going to replicate Klay, but Poole was drafted because of his catch-and-shoot ability. Was one of the better off-screen shooters IIRC.. I dont think its a goal, I think its something he already has in his tool belt, and we should definitely have a backup plan for Klay coming off 2 injury-marred years. There's no reason Poole can't slip into that role, and there's definitely not anyone out there who's going to give you more bang for your buck

Fair point. I looked into the numbers, and he was indeed elite catch and shoot in college. I suppose what I find more interesting about Poole is the shiftiness with the ball in his hands and his passing. That might be because it's been so long since the Warriors have had a young guy who can do stuff with the ball in his hands, but that's always been the biggest appeal Poole has to me.

If I have a concern about Poole in the Klay role it's that I don't think that most of those Klay off-ball sets create super easy looks. Sure, there's open shots to be had playing with Steph, but shooting the ball off of movement like Klay or Belinelli or Joe Harris takes a lot of skill. Catch and shoot shots from a stand still are easier to hit high percentages on and I guess I'd be reluctant to force Poole into more difficult looks off of Klay sets when it might make more sense not just for Poole, but Wiseman and Oubre and the other dummies, to get a more predictable diet of shots in simplified offensive sets.

[azwfan]

Ive been right on Poole the whole time. Cause when he sucks I say so, and in the games that he hasnt, Ive acknowledged that as well.

You also did not want us to pick up his option, and you were ready to trade him for basically anything iirc. So we'll see how right you'll have been about Poole soon.

How soon?!

[watch1958]

Ive been right on Poole the whole time. Cause when he sucks I say so, and in the games that he hasnt, Ive acknowledged that as well.

You also did not want us to pick up his option, and you were ready to trade him for basically anything iirc. So we'll see how right you'll have been about Poole soon.

How soon?!

As soon as Poole's career is over. Maybe a few days before.