Bazemore Doesn't Want to Have COVID Vaccine

[GQ Hot Dog]

So, you've got a Venn diagram that includes doctors and fools and its overlap composes 5% of doctors. This shouldn't surprise anyone. In California, a plastic surgeon who appeared in a videoconference for his traffic violation trial while operating on a patient is being investigated for several possible ethical and medical violations. Just like any other subset of people, some percentage of doctors say, do and believe stupid things. Hence the term "quacks." When you run into one of these "doctors" you don't just blindly agree with their beliefs and assessments. You do what makes sense - Get a second opinion. And, that second opinion, by an extremely wide margin says that the vaccines are not only safe but are also the only means of putting this entire sad chapter behind us.

And, make no mistake, when all the dust settles, this will be remembered as the most tragic period in our history. An estimated 35% of Covid deaths are not reported, bringing the actual death toll in the U.S. alone to a number approaching 800,000 in just a little over one year. Faced with that, everyone needs to take a look in the mirror and ask themselves if they want to be part of the problem or part of the solution.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/01/study-us-covid-cases-deaths-far-higher-reported

I have two people in my immediate family that are hesitant to get the vaccine.

One has Hashimoto's disease as well as another blood-based auto-immune disorder that causes her blood to clot easily. She's had literally hundreds of blood clots through her life and multiple strokes. She's lucky to be alive. She has to be on blood thinners for the rest of her life and she's nervous about these vaccines as two of them so far in the short time we've been using them have caused blood clotting problems. I understand her nervousness.

The other is young and relatively healthy but has a hypochondriac streak that she's been trying to deal with through therapy throughout most of her adult life. She's also hesitant to get vaccinated which lines up with her preexisting emotional problems. She intends to get vaccinated but it's hard for her because she is dealing with an emotional illness. I don't know what it's like to have those thoughts and fears related to being a hypochondriac but I know it's a struggle and a curse that she's desperate to move past but, again, it's hard.

So if you think vaccine hesitancy is solely the realm of Trump supporters, the "stupid" or "quacks" you would be incorrect. The great breadth and depth of individuals that make up humanity are far more complex than that and I would urge you to empathize with all of your brothers and sisters throughout the world. They deserve compassion and understanding as much as those you find more like-minded.

[wco81]

Well your first relative, I guess doctors would advise her. They might for instance be able to point out that risk from covid is greater than risk from vaccine complications. Or they might say she should avoid vaccines but pretty much be very careful about getting infected with covid.

Right now, I'm having hamstring problems since January and haven't seen a doctor yet. I'm hoping a cortisone injection would help.

However, cortisone is an immunosuppressant. I googled a bit and it appears some orthopedists still recommend getting the vaccine until there is research indicating that you can't get cortisone shots with vaccines.

But do your relatives have other vaccinations? For instance, things like measles vaccination is pretty crucial. Whatever other problems, measles or polio would make their standard of live worse.

Measles vaccination is probably required for school and some other venues because it can be so contagious.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Well your first relative, I guess doctors would advise her. They might for instance be able to point out that risk from covid is greater than risk from vaccine complications. Or they might say she should avoid vaccines but pretty much be very careful about getting infected with covid.

Right now, I'm having hamstring problems since January and haven't seen a doctor yet. I'm hoping a cortisone injection would help.

However, cortisone is an immunosuppressant. I googled a bit and it appears some orthopedists still recommend getting the vaccine until there is research indicating that you can't get cortisone shots with vaccines.

But do your relatives have other vaccinations? For instance, things like measles vaccination is pretty crucial. Whatever other problems, measles or polio would make their standard of live worse.

Measles vaccination is probably required for school and some other venues because it can be so contagious.

My relative with the auto-immune disorders was advised by her doctor to wait until the J&J vaccine was available, advice that was given prior to that vaccine's instances of clotting showing up. Now her doctor is advising her to hold off on getting vaccinated until there's a better understanding of why the clotting has occurred. She's retired so continuing to stay home and socially distant for some additional time isn't too great a burden.

[xdrta+]

"So if you think vaccine hesitancy is solely the realm of Trump supporters"

No one has said it's solely the realm of Trump supporters. And, obviously, there should be medical exceptions allowed, just like there are with mandatory vaccines in order to go to school, though I don't know about hypochondria. However, the vast majority of vaccine hesitancy is idealogical, as is shown by all the polls.

To bring it closer to the subject matter of this forum....public schools require vaccines to attend, California State Universities announced they will require the over one million students and faculty be vaccinated before they return this fall, with obvious exceptions for medical conditions, other employers are beginning to require vaccines, and IMO, the NBA needs to do likewise.

[michaelm]

"So if you think vaccine hesitancy is solely the realm of Trump supporters"

No one has said it's solely the realm of Trump supporters. And, obviously, there should be medical exceptions allowed, just like there are with mandatory vaccines in order to go to school, though I don't know about hypochondria. However, the vast majority of vaccine hesitancy is idealogical, as is shown by all the polls.

To bring it closer to the subject matter of this forum....public schools require vaccines to attend, California State Universities announced they will require the over one million students and faculty be vaccinated before they return this fall, with obvious exceptions for medical conditions, other employers are beginning to require vaccines, and IMO, the NBA needs to do likewise.

The opposition to masks, social distancing etc was absolutely crazy imo, particularly to masks, but whatever other blame Trump bears for the (mis)management of the pandemic in the US I haven’t ever heard he was anti-vaccine, and as I understand it actually funded companies to produce vaccines as quickly as possible.

[Old_Blue]

I have two people in my immediate family that are hesitant to get the vaccine.

One has Hashimoto's disease as well as another blood-based auto-immune disorder that causes her blood to clot easily. She's had literally hundreds of blood clots through her life and multiple strokes. She's lucky to be alive. She has to be on blood thinners for the rest of her life and she's nervous about these vaccines as two of them so far in the short time we've been using them have caused blood clotting problems. I understand her nervousness.

The other is young and relatively healthy but has a hypochondriac streak that she's been trying to deal with through therapy throughout most of her adult life. She's also hesitant to get vaccinated which lines up with her preexisting emotional problems. She intends to get vaccinated but it's hard for her because she is dealing with an emotional illness. I don't know what it's like to have those thoughts and fears related to being a hypochondriac but I know it's a struggle and a curse that she's desperate to move past but, again, it's hard.

I hear that an emotional support animal can be quite helpful for this kind of person. If it's going to be her first pet though, keep in mind that it'll need to be vaccinated.

[wco81]

"So if you think vaccine hesitancy is solely the realm of Trump supporters"

No one has said it's solely the realm of Trump supporters. And, obviously, there should be medical exceptions allowed, just like there are with mandatory vaccines in order to go to school, though I don't know about hypochondria. However, the vast majority of vaccine hesitancy is idealogical, as is shown by all the polls.

To bring it closer to the subject matter of this forum....public schools require vaccines to attend, California State Universities announced they will require the over one million students and faculty be vaccinated before they return this fall, with obvious exceptions for medical conditions, other employers are beginning to require vaccines, and IMO, the NBA needs to do likewise.

NFL is requiring it from team employees and corporate staff.

They are suppose to be trying to negotiate with the NFLPA over requiring the players to vaccinate.

The goal is to have as many people vaccinated so they can have full attendance this fall.

[GQ Hot Dog]

I have two people in my immediate family that are hesitant to get the vaccine.

One has Hashimoto's disease as well as another blood-based auto-immune disorder that causes her blood to clot easily. She's had literally hundreds of blood clots through her life and multiple strokes. She's lucky to be alive. She has to be on blood thinners for the rest of her life and she's nervous about these vaccines as two of them so far in the short time we've been using them have caused blood clotting problems. I understand her nervousness.

The other is young and relatively healthy but has a hypochondriac streak that she's been trying to deal with through therapy throughout most of her adult life. She's also hesitant to get vaccinated which lines up with her preexisting emotional problems. She intends to get vaccinated but it's hard for her because she is dealing with an emotional illness. I don't know what it's like to have those thoughts and fears related to being a hypochondriac but I know it's a struggle and a curse that she's desperate to move past but, again, it's hard.

I hear that an emotional support animal can be quite helpful for this kind of person. If it's going to be her first pet though, keep in mind that it'll need to be vaccinated.

You've never had a family member or someone you loved suffer from emotional problems? It's a disease. It's damage. I'm sorry it frustrates you so much. It frustrates her too.

[a8bil]

The mass vaccine mantra being pushed right now is not unlike the herd approach of animals on the Sarengeti...safety in numbers really isn't safety at all. The young, weak, old or inattentive get picked off despite the supposed protection of the herd.

I have gotten the vaccine, but I know many people who are hesitant to do so. Why? Lots of legitimate reasons, but I'll give you one example: one family had their child get a vaccine a few years back and their child had crippling side effects that lasted for several years ... kid lost 2 years of high school where he had to be sedated to mitigate the symptoms he was experiences. This was caused by a vaccine that had been in use for years and everyone insisted was "safe". Count them skeptical of the proclamations of the safety of the COVID vaccines, which have been rushed into production in historically short time frames. They are offended that they have to listen to the sheeple bleating about how the vaccines are safe and only idiots would refuse to take them, when they know even commonly used vaccines can be dangerous.

Yeah, we know what the short term risks are for COVID, but the jury is absolutely still out on the COVID vaccines' long-term effects. We already know blood clotting is an issue with the vaccines...also, studies are starting to see if enlarged hearts in some recipients is correlated. Will early onset dementia or alzheimer's become more prevalent? The number one reported side effect is a headache, so the vaccine must be getting into the brain. I suspect that we will be learning for years of negative side effects these vaccines...but in the interim, the "experts" will be shaming anyone who questions the mass vaccination campaign as a fool who selfishly disregards the greater good. The "greater good" is small solace for the person who dies or has life long adverse symptoms from the vaccine.

Sorry...just thinking out loud...I see both sides of the argument. I guess I just wish there was intelligent discourse on the subject rather than raging idiocy on both sides. We have enough of that in every other aspects of our lives...go look at the GB if you need proof.

[Mob Byers]

This is one of the problems. Whether it’s “the left” or “the right”, it’s always some irrational political vomit to try to “one up” the other side. Shows we have a huge mental health issue here in America, made worse by confusing people for a year. Re-open asylums!

Anyways, the actual science and data are on Bazemores side here. He has a low chance of even being hospitalized thanks to his healthy lifestyle and age. So not sure why there is a 3 page uproar over this non story

This is not a case of "both sides" trying to one-up the other. And the science is not on Bazemore's side. It's not just a matter of whether he gets hospitalized or not, that's not the question.

The science shows that when so many people are unvaccinated, there is a great deal room for the virus to thrive in. If 50% of the population is unvaccinated, that means the virus can survive, thrive, and mutate in a large population. As more and more are vaccinated, there is less and less room for the virus to survive, until it disappears altogether. There needs to be about 85-90% vaccinated for this. This is how smallpox was eradicated over several decades. This is the only way Covid will be eradicated.

So vaccine refusal doesn't just affect the individual. It's a matter of public health.

That 85%-90% number is off, 70% more likely. But even the CDC isn’t sure how the vaccine effects the spread of COVID so not sure where you got that high number. The data simply isn’t there.

A vaccine is typically a safer way to build immunity. The numbers/science is on Bazemore side still, his risk of severe symptoms is very low. Risk of severe symptoms is reduced with the vaccine, according to CDC, however his risk is already low as it is. Natural immunity is fine, not sure why people are so upset about it.

And I completely disagree, it’s not a matter of public health as everyone has different risk factors. We want to talk like we care about public health, let’s talk about obesity, huge risk factor with COVID.

[GSWFan1994]

What worries me is people being threatened to lose their jobs for not wanting to take the vaccine, amongst other things, like not being able to get a driver's license, not being able to apply for a job or taking credit in a bank, not being able to go to certain places (like riding the subway, that is actually happening in the biggest city of Brazil, São Paulo), etc.

This is one step closer to fascism, IMHO.

See China's "Social Credit" system, which rewards people for being a "good citizen", whatever that may imply.

PS: I'm not against taking the vaccine, I plan on taking it, but I think people should be able to choose what they want to do.

[The-Power]

They are offended that they have to listen to the sheeple bleating about how the vaccines are safe and only idiots would refuse to take them, when they know even commonly used vaccines can be dangerous.

Do they also know that the respective diseases are infinitely more dangerous?

[wco81]

Oh gawd, the anti-vaxxers have arrived on Warriors RealGM ...

[a8bil]

They are offended that they have to listen to the sheeple bleating about how the vaccines are safe and only idiots would refuse to take them, when they know even commonly used vaccines can be dangerous.

Do they also know that the respective diseases are infinitely more dangerous?

Well, I think your question assumes facts that may not be true. Of course, they know that COVID has dangers, which is greater for some, lesser for others.

For some, COVID is asymptomatic and for a large portion of the populace, it causes nothing more than mild flu symptoms. If someone who is not in a risk category and who will likely only have mild flu symptoms, thinks they would rather just get COVID than risk the unknown dangers of vaccines that were rushed through, it is not an unreasonable view from the individual's standpoint. When you consider the collective good, the answer may very well be different (as there are many who are at higher risk), but the blind acceptance that the equation of covid risk vs. vaccine risk weighs "infinitely" in favor of taking the vaccine is based on blind acceptance. No one knows the long term risks of these vaccines and we won't know for years. Will it be the next Vioxx, or will it be the next Salk vaccine? Nobody knows for sure...which is the problem with the discourse, IMO.

Edit: You know, I probably misread your statement, by assuming you are talking solely about COVID, when in fact you're including polio, diptheria, etc. Yes, nasty diseases where on balance the danger outweighs the risks associated with the vaccines given to children, but the risks are largely known by now. With COVID, the balancing is impossible because the risks of the vaccine are not known and will not be know for years.

[a8bil]

Oh gawd, the anti-vaxxers have arrived on Warriors RealGM ...

Cute pithy response, but clearly you didn't read my post. I have gotten the vaccine. But, I also know people who have had experiences with other vaccines that were believed to be safe but resulted in serious injury to their kids...not speculative, actual. I suspect you don't know that the US government actually has a victims compensation fund for people injured by compelled vaccinations. It's the greater good concept...yeah, some of you will be seriously injured by forced vaccination, but it is for the greater good -- just accept this small financial token for your lifelong suffering. Those programs exist for vaccines that we have decades of experience with. We have all of 4 months experience with the COVID vaccines...I imagine for you, ignorance is bliss. Amirite?

[wco81]

You're spending more time spewing propaganda than it would take to get the shot.

[a8bil]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I wrote that I have taken the vaccine. Perhaps your shot is affecting your ability to think? See, just one more unexpected side affect.

[Old_Blue]

You're spending more time spewing propaganda than it would take to get the shot.

No joke. I got both doses of Pfizer and, each time, it took only twenty minutes out of my day. No side effects. Now I'm good to go for work, travel, etc. Hard to relate to these folks who are setting themselves up for failure simply because they can't handle a shot. Later on, they're sure to be moaning about work or travel restrictions due to their refusal to get vaccinated.

[michaelm]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I wrote that I have taken the vaccine. Perhaps your shot is affecting your ability to think? See, just one more unexpected side affect.

[Old_Blue]

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I wrote that I have taken the vaccine. Perhaps your shot is affecting your ability to think? See, just one more unexpected side affect.