wiseman's physical tool strength and weakness

[shazam_guy]

I'll bet it's longer than Reggie Williams's.

Or am I stretching too far into the past for that one?

[shazam_guy]

For those who don't remember, Reggie Williams was to necks what Corey Maggette was to offensive subtlety.

[Mac1958]

The player with the most upside was Ball before the draft. But it was doubtful he would reach his potential here since the system doesn’t utilize one player as a playmaker.

Oh please. Ball would have fit beautifully into our scheme. The suggestion that "he wouldn't have reached his potential with the Warriors" is nonsense. A small ball lineup of Curry, Klay, LaMelo, Draymond and a legitimate stretch 4 would have been a ride in a time machine back to the start of our run.

Maybe, but the league has evolved and teams are better equipped to defend teams like the 2015 GSW team.

Yeah, this is a point that I think is often overlooked. The Warriors were the unicorn of the league, and they had the players to pull it off. Today, most of the league has gone in that direction to a large degree. The league has not only adapted to it, but embraced it.

Who's going to be the next unicorn team, and what will that look like? Who knows, but I'd guess that a return to 2015 isn't in the cards for the W's.

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

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[and1GS]

You need to find new things to tweet about bud.

[EvanZ]

You need to find new things to tweet about bud.

Actually I don’t.


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[TD739]

The only legitimate measurement is at the combine but Wiseman didn't attend. So alot of stuffs are hyped up. Wiseman , you look at his picture and relative to other players , his wingspan obviously not long which limits his shotblocking. And his hand size is not large which limits his rebounding.

Shorter arm length and smaller hands actually help shooting. and that explains his exceptional in that area.

His 7'4" wingspan is short for a 7'1" guy.
7'6" is about average. Gobert is 7'9" and mo Bamba 7'10". Those 2 freaks have such long arms therefore physically impossible to have a decent outside shots.

[a8bil]

LOL at yet another TD739 trolling thread. Wiseman's wingspan is "subpar" because it is not as long as "freakish" Gobert? Literally nothing TD739 has said to make his point is true. The DraftExpress article is from 2017 (an under 16 report) and was discussing JW's height (and 1.5 inch) growth to 6'11" in 2017. He has since grown another 2" and every report I read says his wingspan is 7'6" and his standing reach is 9'6". But, the more curious assertion -- without one Iota of support -- is that Wiseman is somehow below avg. in wingspan to height and in hand size. What is "average" in the NBA for wingspan and hand size for 7'1"? How does Wiseman compare to the handful of guys who actually fit this criteria? And, most importantly, what does it matter? Gobert's standing reach is 9'7". Wiseman's is 9'6". Very few NBA players have a higher standing reach than Wiseman, and even fewer have that standing reach and have Wiseman's athleticism. Yet, there are many players who are much better shot blockers. Why? Shot blocking is more about timing than anything, but you can be sure that Wiseman changes a LOT of shots in the paint because of his standing reach.

Draftexpress said he grew from 6'11" to 7'1/2" and wingspan remains about the same at 7'4".
Stats can lie. I take a look at Wiseman and he has about same wingspan as Draymond green.
Also he doesn't have big hands maybe that explains his lacking in rebounding.

I think one thing we can agree on is that the measurements are all over the board, depending on which site you look at.

In my view, the size of one's hands is to a large degree irrelevant, so long as they're big enough to palm a basketball. In fact, too large of hands can result in less touch on the basketball while shooting, IMO.

Being a great rebounder is more than being a volume rebounder. Westbrook gets a ton of rebounds for example because he poaches them and his teammates clear out for him to get rebounds. Is he a better rebounder than most guards? Yes, but if his teammates didn't allow him to poach I suspect his #s would go down below 5 rpg.

To me, great rebounding for big men means being able to grab contested rebounds in the paint. To do that requires (1) fighting for position early; (2) boxing offensive players out; (3) understanding the angles that the ball will come off the rim on missed shots; (4) being able to judge while the ball is in the air how the shot will miss, i.e., long, short, wide, etc.; and (5) being able to move to where the ball comes off the rim without losing position against the opposing player. If all of these things are done correctly, the rebound will be secured the vast majority of the time. Chris Mullin was a really good rebounder for his size/athleticism during the core of his career because he understood these fundamentals. When he wasn't big enough effectively box out his man, he would often tip the ball to a spot where he could be the first man to the ball to secure the rebound.

To me, Wiseman does not yet have the instincts to do the little things that will make him a great rebounder. My guess is that is a result of being the biggest man on the court most of his career. Being much larger than your opponents can hide a lot of sins. In the NBA, JW will not be able to rely solely on his height...he'll have to learn footwork and technique. He seems a willing learner, so for now I am not concerned.

[Old_Blue]

Wiseman's development will require baby steps. For instance, the rest of this year, he needs to work on getting out of bed and neither hurting himself nor exposing himself to Covid. Next year, he can work on screens. If he tries to take a shot, you pull him out of the game and remind him that he's only permitted to set screens. Four or five years down the road, he can start to work on his offensive skills.

[a8bil]

The only legitimate measurement is at the combine but Wiseman didn't attend. So alot of stuffs are hyped up. Wiseman , you look at his picture and relative to other players , his wingspan obviously not long which limits his shotblocking. And his hand size is not large which limits his rebounding.

Shorter arm length and smaller hands actually help shooting. and that explains his exceptional in that area.

His 7'4" wingspan is short for a 7'1" guy.
7'6" is about average. Gobert is 7'9" and mo Bamba 7'10". Those 2 freaks have such long arms therefore physically impossible to have a decent outside shots.

Well, if you go off of the sites that say 7'4", then you have to go with 6'11" height, because none say he is over 7' without shoes.

So, who else is 6'11" with 7'4" wingspan? Clint Capela. others for context:
Enes Kanter is 6'11" and 7'2" wingspan.
Vucevic is 6'11" and 7'4" wingspan.
Jokic is 6'11" and 7'3" wingspan.
Sabonis is 6'10" with a 6'11" wingspan.
Ayton is 7'0" with a 7'5" wingspan.
Randle is 6'9" with a 6'11" wingspan.
Embiid is 6'11" with a 7'5" wingspan.
Drummond 6'11" with a 7'5" wingspan.
Plumlee 6'11" with a 7'0" wingspan.
Antetokounmpo 6'11" with a 7'3" wingspan
Gobert is 7'1 with a 7'9" wingspan.

Turner 6'11" with a 7'4" wingspan.
Noel 6'10" with a 7'4" wingspan.
William 6'10" with a 7'2.5" wingspan.
Holmes 6'9" with a 7'1.5" wingpan.


So, I don't know where you're getting your 7'6" average, as I haven't found any with that measurement, plenty who are right around the same as JS. But, more importantly, understand the lists above. The first are the league's rebounding leaders (minus Valanciunas whose stats I could not find). Set aside the freak Gobert, Drummond and Embiid have very slightly longer wingspans than JW, but Jokic has slightly less and Kanter, Sabonis, Randle, and Plumlee have significantly less than JW. Yet, all are rebounding leaders. The second are the block leaders (include Capela above).

So, I stand by my original comments. Your analysis does not hold water. JW has all the tools he needs to be a great shotblocker and a leading rebounder in the league. He just needs to learn how to use those tools.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Phyiscally and mentally and emontiolaally maturity wise, Wiseman will be fine; and he can shoot. The question is whether Wiseman has any mad dog beast in him. You have to want the ball more than the other guy. You have to act impulsively. Thinking is for veterans.

More Joakim Noah, less Patrick O'Bryant

[Upperclass]

He looks alot like bagley does

[EvanZ]

Phyiscally and mentally and emontiolaally maturity wise, Wiseman will be fine; and he can shoot. The question is whether Wiseman has any mad dog beast in him. You have to want the ball more than the other guy. You have to act impulsively. Thinking is for veterans.

More Joakim Noah, less Patrick O'Bryant

I wouldn't take the shooting for granted. He's shooting 63% on free throws and he's 11-33 on 3s after a hot start.

[tarantism]

Phyiscally and mentally and emontiolaally maturity wise, Wiseman will be fine; and he can shoot. The question is whether Wiseman has any mad dog beast in him. You have to want the ball more than the other guy. You have to act impulsively. Thinking is for veterans.

More Joakim Noah, less Patrick O'Bryant

I wouldn't take the shooting for granted. He's shooting 63% on free throws and he's 11-33 on 3s after a hot start.

Oh no! 33%. What ever will the rookie do??

We didn't even know he could shoot threes. 33% as a rookie is a gift.

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[EvanZ]

Phyiscally and mentally and emontiolaally maturity wise, Wiseman will be fine; and he can shoot. The question is whether Wiseman has any mad dog beast in him. You have to want the ball more than the other guy. You have to act impulsively. Thinking is for veterans.

More Joakim Noah, less Patrick O'Bryant

I wouldn't take the shooting for granted. He's shooting 63% on free throws and he's 11-33 on 3s after a hot start.

Oh no! 33%. What ever will the rookie do??

We didn't even know he could shoot threes. 33% as a rookie is a gift.

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Sigh. Even when presented with objective reality, homers gonna find a way.

[clyde21]

Wiseman's development will require baby steps. For instance, the rest of this year, he needs to work on getting out of bed and neither hurting himself nor exposing himself to Covid. Next year, he can work on screens. If he tries to take a shot, you pull him out of the game and remind him that he's only permitted to set screens. Four or five years down the road, he can start to work on his offensive skills.

and then when Cannon Curry is in the league, we'll make a run with Wiseman

[shazam_guy]

What's the opposite of "homers" -- "Flanders"? Because whatever they're called, there are a lot of Wiseman-haters who keep saying that anyone who disagrees with them must be a homer, instead of just in no rush to proclaim long-term truth about a kid who has barely played since high school, which is what most of us are.

If you think it's a bad idea to draft a kid who's going to take a while to learn the NBA game, fine. Keep saying it, over and over and over and over. We get it. But quit pretending you can see that his game is going to be bad. You can't. Nobody can. You have an inflated idea of your own perceptiveness.

[EvanZ]

But quit pretending you can see that his game is going to be bad. You can't. Nobody can.

I mean, of course you can. That's kind of the whole point of this. Otherwise, why rank any players? Why don't we have a lottery for the entire draft and every team just randomly selects players?

I would suggest, if you think it's so random, perhaps, you are the one who should stay off these forums. Not sure you have much to add in that case. "He might be good. He might be bad. I have no idea. I'm just throwing out random comments at people."

[tarantism]

I wouldn't take the shooting for granted. He's shooting 63% on free throws and he's 11-33 on 3s after a hot start.

Oh no! 33%. What ever will the rookie do??

We didn't even know he could shoot threes. 33% as a rookie is a gift.

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Sigh. Even when presented with objective reality, homers gonna find a way.

You're saying you can definitively project that Wiseman will never improve his outside shot?

Even if he doesn't, 33% is more than enough to keep defenses honest and space the floor. From your center, that's gravy.

You go to great lengths to come off as superior. It's gross.

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[EvanZ]

Oh no! 33%. What ever will the rookie do??

We didn't even know he could shoot threes. 33% as a rookie is a gift.

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Sigh. Even when presented with objective reality, homers gonna find a way.

You're saying you can definitively project that Wiseman will never improve his outside shot?

Even if he doesn't, 33% is more than enough to keep defenses honest and space the floor. From your center, that's gravy.

You go to great lengths to come off as superior. It's gross.

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As I said you are just a homer. You probably thought Paschall would be an All-Star this season. I've seen it far too many times on boards like this. Just open your eyes man. Of course, Wiseman *can* improve his shot. So can anyone.