ImageImageImageImageImage

Jordan Poole

Moderators: floppymoose, Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair

ILOVEIT
RealGM
Posts: 12,745
And1: 2,608
Joined: May 28, 2004

Jordan Poole 

Post#1 » by ILOVEIT » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:30 pm

I'm so confused by this guy. Some nights he catches a little fire and looks really good.
Some nights ...he misses....really badly...like brick city.
He often dribbles around and looks like he's not sure at all what he's doing....
Lately he comes free off a screen...doesn't shoot...then probes to about 10-15...open...then dribbles or tosses it back out?
Is it purely confidence with this guy?

There are times when I think....THERE ...bench scoring solved.
Other times it's like "omg WTF are you doing out there"?

You guys think it's just experience needed or is he just going to be a mercurial player....very good at times and very bad at others?
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
Warriors Analyst
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,018
And1: 1,951
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#2 » by Warriors Analyst » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:02 pm

Poole takes a lot of difficult shots as a lead guard, so it's only natural his 3P% percentages aren't going to be great. I mean, look at Dame. We consider Dame one of the best guards of his generation and he's only cleared 40% from three once in his career. On his career he's a 37% three point shooter, which is... exactly league average. Poole is shooting 35% from three this year. For point of reference Spencer Dinwiddie is a career 31% three point shooter on high volume and the best he ever shot it was 37.6% on a much lower volume. Lou is a career 35% three point shooter on high volume. It's only in the last five years that Lou consistently started making above 35%. Jordan Clarkson, who is the consensus favorite for the 6MOY is a 34% career three point shooter and he's shooting it at exactly 35% this year. Jamal Crawford, the most archetypal sixth man gunner to ever play, was a 34.8% career three point shooter.

I'm not worried about Poole's shot. I think next year he'll get even cleaner looks. Right now he's only gotten 24 shots from both corners and he's shooting well over 50% on the corners. Where he's struggling is getting good looks above the break, where he shoots 31.6%, but it's worth noting a fair amount of those looks are off of the dribble and with a high degree of difficulty. Poole is shooting 37% on catch and shoot threes this year and the numbers and eye ball test back up that he's much better shooting from a standstill OR on the move when he's in the corner. The one thing I've noticed with Poole is that his lower body mechanics are all over the place when he shoots. The feet start narrow sometimes, splay out in mid air, and then land with one foot far ahead of the other. Sometimes his stance is wide on the catch, sometimes it's not. It's inconsistent and I imagine that is in part because he's taking hard shots, but you'd imagine that as his body matures and he gets stronger, it'll be easier for him to maintain consistent mechanics.

I do get what you mean by being frustrated by the indecision about when to shoot and when to pass. I think Poole is still looking over his shoulder a little bit and trying to strike the right balance of distributing and shooting the ball. I think that'll get better with time. He's a really smart passer and he fires absolute lasers into the hands of shooters, even when he passes off the dribble. I think eventually he'll realize that his aggressive scoring will get even more clean looks for his teammates, but that'll come with time.

What's most encouraging to me about Poole is that his numbers indicate that he has very real and very sustainable touch that portends a long future in this league. This year and last, Poole is shooting above 50% on floaters. He's a good free throw shooter. And best of all, this year he's shooting 68% in the restricted area. That's two percentage points higher than Steph's career best and only a few points short of prime LeBron numbers in the paint. That's absolutely nuts. Is it sustainable? I don't know. I've been closely tracking his finishing all year and there was a time when he was as high as 78% and then hovered in the low 70's and now he's coming back down to earth. But even if Poole coming back down to earth is a low 60's% finisher in the restricted area, that's elite for a guard.

So couple that in with some physical growth, mental growth seeing more reps and learning the game, and ideally pairing him with more spacing and perhaps another secondary creator, and he's going to look even better next year. Right now Poole's numbers are more or less on par, percentage wise with some of the guys who are widely considered among the premier bench guards of the last 5-10 years: Lou Will, Clarkson, Crawford, and Dinwiddie. Even if Poole never clears 35% on three, if he keeps stroking it at that percentage/volume on that degree of difficulty, he's still going to be immensely useful. If Poole can get up to 37% ish consistently, then he's got a chance of not just being a premier sixth man, but a starter in this league.

Projecting out into the future, my guess is Poole will command at least $15 mil a year by the time his rookie contract is up. I'd be comfortable giving him $17 mil by then, assuming a reasonable upwards trajectory, and wouldn't be surprised if he's worth more than that by the end of his contract.

What I'm most excited about with Poole next year is imagining what he'd look like next to Klay or Jessup in bench lineups with JTA. If Oubre stays and is content in his current role, even better. I also wouldn't mind grabbing a combo guard like Langston Galloway on a minimum deal to pair with Poole so we can get Poole some more clean catch and shoot looks. But the future is bright with him. Just be patient.
a8bil
Veteran
Posts: 2,658
And1: 1,022
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#3 » by a8bil » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:13 pm

Poole came out of a college system where he was the man...he was expected to score almost single-handedly, which makes him prone to over-dribbling and forcing shots. The more he assimilates into a ball movement offense, the better he'll be in all facets of the game.
a8bil
Veteran
Posts: 2,658
And1: 1,022
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#4 » by a8bil » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:25 pm

Sorry...duplicate
Warriors Analyst
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,018
And1: 1,951
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#5 » by Warriors Analyst » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:33 pm

a8bil wrote:Poole came out of a college system where he was the man...he was expected to score almost single-handedly, which makes him prone to over-dribbling and forcing shots. The more he assimilates into a ball movement offense, the better he'll be in all facets of the game.


I don’t watch much college ball so I rely on reading what other people say/highlights, but from what I’ve read about Poole’s Michigan career that was not the case. As I understand it, Poole was a point guard in high school and got thrust into an off ball role at Michigan.
dk1115
Pro Prospect
Posts: 894
And1: 501
Joined: Feb 23, 2009
       

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#6 » by dk1115 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:45 am

I also don't think Jordan Poole was the primary option at Michigan.

But I do have to say that I was dead wrong on my assumption that he was going to be our next number 30 pick failure. The kid went from a -6.6BPM in his rookie year where he got a good amount of playing time, to what looks like a good sixth man option in only 1 year.
User avatar
lars_rosenberg
Analyst
Posts: 3,624
And1: 3,132
Joined: Aug 15, 2014
   

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#7 » by lars_rosenberg » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:17 am

I'm really positive on Poole because he's only 21, but he's also showing steady progress.
Just being young doesn't guarantee progress, but a young player that shows improvement is on the right trajectory.
We really need more offense off the bench and Pool is becoming a reliable option. He has all the tools to be an offensive force.
Hopefully his mistakes will be corrected with experience. This is a great environment to learn for a player like him, Steph can be an invaluable mentor.
The-Power
Head Coach
Posts: 7,005
And1: 6,042
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#8 » by The-Power » Sat May 15, 2021 8:54 am

:)
BG
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,594
And1: 365
Joined: Aug 14, 2001
Location: Austria
Contact:
 

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#9 » by BG » Sat May 15, 2021 9:09 am

i have to admit, Poole in his rookie year played some of the worst basketball i had to watch in the last couple of years. but that guy has developed into a very fun player to watch, he plays with so much swag on the court, that's been unheard of ever since swaggy p. really nice to have a guy of the bench that can create his own shot pretty much every time he wants to, and is not afraid to do so. i just hope he can carry this over to next season and play on a high level consistantly. I'm a big fan of his shorts too btw.
Warriors!!!
weekend_warrior
Senior
Posts: 614
And1: 225
Joined: Dec 02, 2014
 

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#10 » by weekend_warrior » Sat May 15, 2021 9:58 am

Just watched the recap of the Pelicans game. It's important to keep in mind that the Pels trotted out a line-up that had quite the G-league flair to it...but nevertheless a great game from Poole. I found the early part of the game especially encouraging where he had a bunch of really good passes. It's not that I am surprised, he has the vision to make nice passes. I still find it reassuring though that there is clearly the potential to be more than just a relentless gunner. He was feeding Mulder the entire game.

I don't think it's entirely impossible that he could still develop into a good lead guard type, even though that is of course not my expectation. Also good to see that there seems to be a really good connection with JTA (whom you have to like).
User avatar
GSWFan1994
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,601
And1: 2,208
Joined: Oct 31, 2006
 

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#11 » by GSWFan1994 » Sat May 15, 2021 4:55 pm

BG wrote:i have to admit, Poole in his rookie year played some of the worst basketball i had to watch in the last couple of years. but that guy has developed into a very fun player to watch, he plays with so much swag on the court, that's been unheard of ever since swaggy p. really nice to have a guy of the bench that can create his own shot pretty much every time he wants to, and is not afraid to do so. i just hope he can carry this over to next season and play on a high level consistantly. I'm a big fan of his shorts too btw.


Like it's said here in Brazil... you're riding on the reason!

:clap:
Samurai
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,546
And1: 2,061
Joined: Jul 01, 2014
     

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#12 » by Samurai » Sat May 15, 2021 6:22 pm

All shooters are going to have nights where they just can't put the ball in the bay; even Steph and Klay have had some awful shooting games. Good shooters end up having more good ones than bad ones. His shot seems pretty smooth and he is shooting 88% from the line this year. As long as he can continue to improve his shot selection and avoid the off-balance high difficulty shots that he can be prone to, he should be fine. He seems to be making some strides this year on his defense; I think his improvement there will be the bigger factor in how large his future role becomes. But his future seems much brighter now than it did one year ago.
ILOVEIT
RealGM
Posts: 12,745
And1: 2,608
Joined: May 28, 2004

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#13 » by ILOVEIT » Sun May 16, 2021 5:33 am

Well I've been impressed....Poole appears for real :)
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
shazam_guy
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,420
And1: 762
Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#14 » by shazam_guy » Sun May 16, 2021 6:17 am

Nothing to be confused about, except that so many people were was so positive he was useless. He wasn't. And he's looking more and more like our best bet for an instant-offense guy off the bench.
User avatar
DevinVassell
Senior
Posts: 594
And1: 332
Joined: Sep 28, 2020
 

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#15 » by DevinVassell » Sun May 16, 2021 8:19 am

shazam_guy wrote:Nothing to be confused about, except that so many people were was so positive he was useless. He wasn't. And he's looking more and more like our best bet for an instant-offense guy off the bench.


Good old hindsight! So I'm guessing you saw the talent early on? I didn't and questioned the consistency. Even late last year some people (FNQ for one) had been warming up to him and rightfully so... but early/mid last season absolutely every Tom, Dick and Harry thought he was totally and utterly useless. Find me ONE positive quote from that time from anybody (including yourself) and I'll be surprised.
GQ Hot Dog
Head Coach
Posts: 6,721
And1: 4,156
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#16 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sun May 16, 2021 3:43 pm

DevinVassell wrote:
shazam_guy wrote:Nothing to be confused about, except that so many people were was so positive he was useless. He wasn't. And he's looking more and more like our best bet for an instant-offense guy off the bench.


Good old hindsight! So I'm guessing you saw the talent early on? I didn't and questioned the consistency. Even late last year some people (FNQ for one) had been warming up to him and rightfully so... but early/mid last season absolutely every Tom, Dick and Harry thought he was totally and utterly useless. Find me ONE positive quote from that time from anybody (including yourself) and I'll be surprised.


https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1857312&start=60

Page 4, about midway, I give my assessment. Not totally spot on because I think his quickness attacking the bucket is his most marketable NBA skill but no far off either.
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
watch1958
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,617
And1: 379
Joined: Aug 03, 2001

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#17 » by watch1958 » Sun May 16, 2021 4:32 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:
shazam_guy wrote:Nothing to be confused about, except that so many people were was so positive he was useless. He wasn't. And he's looking more and more like our best bet for an instant-offense guy off the bench.


Good old hindsight! So I'm guessing you saw the talent early on? I didn't and questioned the consistency. Even late last year some people (FNQ for one) had been warming up to him and rightfully so... but early/mid last season absolutely every Tom, Dick and Harry thought he was totally and utterly useless. Find me ONE positive quote from that time from anybody (including yourself) and I'll be surprised.


https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1857312&start=60

Page 4, about midway, I give my assessment. Not totally spot on because I think his quickness attacking the bucket is his most marketable NBA skill but no far off either.
I forgot about people being high on KZ Okpala. :-?
This movie is like the Rocky Horror Picture Show where everyone knows all the lines.
GQ Hot Dog
Head Coach
Posts: 6,721
And1: 4,156
Joined: May 15, 2006
Location: On the road...
     

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#18 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sun May 16, 2021 6:39 pm

One reason I'm really happy with Poole(whether he becomes Nash-like or Nash-lite) is he gives us a good deal of what Lamelo would provide but at a fraction of the price. At this point my choice for the pick would have been to take the Bulls trade and end up with WCJ and Patrick Williams but Wiseman still has the ability to turn into the best choice.
Bob Meyers, June 7, 2018: "“It’s not in my job description to please NBA fans. It’s to win, end of story. I don’t need to be entertained, I just need to win. That’s all it is. That’s all I was hired to do. Win.”
a8bil
Veteran
Posts: 2,658
And1: 1,022
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#19 » by a8bil » Sun May 16, 2021 10:09 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:One reason I'm really happy with Poole(whether he becomes Nash-like or Nash-lite) is he gives us a good deal of what Lamelo would provide but at a fraction of the price. At this point my choice for the pick would have been to take the Bulls trade and end up with WCJ and Patrick Williams but Wiseman still has the ability to turn into the best choice.
I agree with this...about the posters who were quick to call Poole garbage...it always surprises me. It's pretty well accepted even for lottery picks that the game is moving very quickly for them and they can't really settle into their game until the game starts to slow down for them. The speed of the game has to be overwhelming for guys like Poole, who came is as a low 1st rounder after 2 years of college trying to transition to the PG role. His game looked like the game was moving very quickly. It looks this year like it is slowing down for him and he's playing more balanced and in control, so we're seeing so much more of his game.
a8bil
Veteran
Posts: 2,658
And1: 1,022
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#20 » by a8bil » Sun May 16, 2021 10:29 pm

Poole over the last 4 games:

23.5 pts, 2.8 rbs and 1.8 assts, on .566 on 2pt, .455 from 3 pt and .95 at the FT line. .761 TS% I think he can help in the playoffs.

Return to Golden State Warriors