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Jordan Poole

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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#141 » by FNQ » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:24 am

Jester_ wrote:
FNQ wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:For those interested, a nice in-depth article on Poole.

https://uproxx.com/dimemag/jordan-pool-golden-state-warriors-analysis-videos/

Nicely done and well sourced article

This board had him as poor man's Curry at about midseason and it looks like the media is figuring it out too

I dont like the idea of starting him though, unless its just to get our offense zipping early for a few minutes a game. It throws our defense into disarray, as we can only hide one guard at a time. But anything less than 20mpg for the guy would be criminal - he eats all of the non Steph minutes (14mpg) and then gets between 6-10 with Curry per game


Agreed. Throw him into a starting role now and we'll get Monta Ellis syndrome



Thing about Monta was that he was a solid defender when he was a 6th man and then as he moved up the pecking order, became less interested until nil.. Poole might not even be as good a defender as Monta ever was. Sucks to say, but he's just not laterally very quick, like his reflexes aren't all the way there. Could be that in time, he gets it.. but he definitely hasn't yet, hasnt shown a ton of growth there yet, and considering his draft position, I'm willing to let it be a happy surprise if he turns out to be an average defender, either on-ball or off

I dont think Poole, or anyone, could develop into a Monta here. One could be a Monta while visiting (Oubre), chucking up bad shots for no reason (Oubre), not knowing where to be on defense (Oubre), or even just not caring unless the play directly involved himself (Oubre). But with someone like Draymond here, I doubt anyone gets away with lazy chucking and no defense
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#142 » by The-Power » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:51 am

xdrta+ wrote:I agree with those saying have Poole come off the bench. They need scoring from the bench and that's what Poole provides. At least he better provide it. Until Klay is back I look for Lee to start, he knows how to play with Steph and Draymond and can be a quiet contributor.

I assume that means for when Curry sits and that has actually nothing to do with whether Poole starts or not. The question about starting him is about whether you see him as a 30+ MPG guy with Klay out or as a 20-25 MPG guy. If he has continued his improvement, I want him to play starter minutes on this squad and that's just easier to do when someone starts.

If we look at Steph, he plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarter and then outside of blow-outs plays 5 to 6 minutes in the 2nd and 4th depending on the game. So I'm looking for Poole to start and play around 6 minutes the 1st and 3rd, and start the 2nd and 4th until he's subbed out for Steph – and if you want him to close out the half or game, you can bring him in for another 2 to 3 minutes at the end of the 2nd and 4th, respectively.

The notion that if you need a scorer for when your main guy sits, you should bring that scorer off the bench is a fallacy because it is all about rotations. Klay has always been used on the floor for when Curry sits – that doesn't mean he couldn't be a starter at the same time.

---

As for defense, we'll have to see what we have in Poole this season. But the idea that we are going to have a great defensive alternative I just can't agree with. Who's going to be that? Rookie Moodie? Lee? I doubt any of them can be used to reliably keep in check the best guards in the league next year, so you have to trust your frontcourt rotation as well as the effort-level of the somewhat limited guards to be a good defense anyway.

So you might as well roll with Poole, so long as he competes, with the added benefit that this means the opponents' best guards cannot be hidden defensively either and will have to chase around one of Curry and Poole or defend a bigger guy in Wiggins whereas it'd be much easier for them to defend someone like Lee or Rookie Moody. It works both ways, after all.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#143 » by watch1958 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:03 am

FNQ wrote:
Jester_ wrote:
FNQ wrote:Nicely done and well sourced article

This board had him as poor man's Curry at about midseason and it looks like the media is figuring it out too

I dont like the idea of starting him though, unless its just to get our offense zipping early for a few minutes a game. It throws our defense into disarray, as we can only hide one guard at a time. But anything less than 20mpg for the guy would be criminal - he eats all of the non Steph minutes (14mpg) and then gets between 6-10 with Curry per game


Agreed. Throw him into a starting role now and we'll get Monta Ellis syndrome



Thing about Monta was that he was a solid defender when he was a 6th man and then as he moved up the pecking order, became less interested until nil.. Poole might not even be as good a defender as Monta ever was. Sucks to say, but he's just not laterally very quick, like his reflexes aren't all the way there. Could be that in time, he gets it.. but he definitely hasn't yet, hasnt shown a ton of growth there yet, and considering his draft position, I'm willing to let it be a happy surprise if he turns out to be an average defender, either on-ball or off

I dont think Poole, or anyone, could develop into a Monta here. One could be a Monta while visiting (Oubre), chucking up bad shots for no reason (Oubre), not knowing where to be on defense (Oubre), or even just not caring unless the play directly involved himself (Oubre). But with someone like Draymond here, I doubt anyone gets away with lazy chucking and no defense
I paid attention to his defense during the bubble. Looked like he was playing hard and trying to do it right.

He just wasn’t very effective. Like a cornerback who is always in the right spot, but never seems to make a play on the ball.

Since he seems to put in the work, maybe he can learn the tricks of the trade to get a bit better.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#144 » by Thugleavy34 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:06 pm

The-Power wrote:I'm looking for Poole to start and play around 6 minutes the 1st and 3rd, and start the 2nd and 4th until he's subbed out for Steph – and if you want him to close out the half or game, you can bring him in for another 2 to 3 minutes at the end of the 2nd and 4th, respectively.


The problem with this is that it’s hard for players to get into a flow when they’re only playing 6 minute stints at a time. Do this with players and they feel jerked around, never able to get into a rhythm
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#145 » by ShootersShoot » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:43 pm

The-Power wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:I agree with those saying have Poole come off the bench. They need scoring from the bench and that's what Poole provides. At least he better provide it. Until Klay is back I look for Lee to start, he knows how to play with Steph and Draymond and can be a quiet contributor.

I assume that means for when Curry sits and that has actually nothing to do with whether Poole starts or not. The question about starting him is about whether you see him as a 30+ MPG guy with Klay out or as a 20-25 MPG guy. If he has continued his improvement, I want him to play starter minutes on this squad and that's just easier to do when someone starts.

If we look at Steph, he plays the entire 1st and 3rd quarter and then outside of blow-outs plays 5 to 6 minutes in the 2nd and 4th depending on the game. So I'm looking for Poole to start and play around 6 minutes the 1st and 3rd, and start the 2nd and 4th until he's subbed out for Steph – and if you want him to close out the half or game, you can bring him in for another 2 to 3 minutes at the end of the 2nd and 4th, respectively.

The notion that if you need a scorer for when your main guy sits, you should bring that scorer off the bench is a fallacy because it is all about rotations. Klay has always been used on the floor for when Curry sits – that doesn't mean he couldn't be a starter at the same time.

---

As for defense, we'll have to see what we have in Poole this season. But the idea that we are going to have a great defensive alternative I just can't agree with. Who's going to be that? Rookie Moodie? Lee? I doubt any of them can be used to reliably keep in check the best guards in the league next year, so you have to trust your frontcourt rotation as well as the effort-level of the somewhat limited guards to be a good defense anyway.

So you might as well roll with Poole, so long as he competes, with the added benefit that this means the opponents' best guards cannot be hidden defensively either and will have to chase around one of Curry and Poole or defend a bigger guy in Wiggins whereas it'd be much easier for them to defend someone like Lee or Rookie Moody. It works both ways, after all.


The beautiful part about all this is that I believe they can make it work either way. There are pros and cons for poole starting. The biggest con being defense and pros being poole would probably be the best offensive player we could start at SG early in the season with klay out. It would also be nice to have a secondary ball handler out there with steph who can score/shoot.

For me, the ideal type of role for poole would be something like jordan clarkson. Off the bench but would get around 25mpg if the team was fully healthy. But if we are missing klay for a bit to start the season, I can see kerr experimenting with different SLs and who knows maybe moody steps up early and they can utilize him in a 3&D role as a starter. No one right now outside of klay as a starting SG is going to be ideal for various reasons, but I think they can find reasonable success no matter who they put there which is why I'm not too worried if poole starts or not. Poole's also 22 years old, so playing him for longer stretches without rest as a starting SG then sliding him to more of a primary ball handler role when steph sits shouldnt be a big issue either.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#146 » by The-Power » Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:44 pm

Thugleavy34 wrote:
The-Power wrote:I'm looking for Poole to start and play around 6 minutes the 1st and 3rd, and start the 2nd and 4th until he's subbed out for Steph – and if you want him to close out the half or game, you can bring him in for another 2 to 3 minutes at the end of the 2nd and 4th, respectively.


The problem with this is that it’s hard for players to get into a flow when they’re only playing 6 minute stints at a time. Do this with players and they feel jerked around, never able to get into a rhythm

Worth considering what type of player he is, I agree. But it's more more rare that players play 12 minutes straight like Steph did. Around 6 minutes – or more like 7 if you want to play him 30+ MPG – really isn't a short period of time in basketball. I wouldn't worry about rhythm at this point, it's not like he'd be playing 2-3 minutes bursts like some defensive role players.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#147 » by DevinVassell » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:24 pm

^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#148 » by Sleepy51 » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:57 am

DevinVassell wrote:^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.


Poole’s minutes will largely be a function of managing and maintaining Steph’s predetermined rest and recovery interval. Secondarily will also be Klay’s load management. But there are plenty of minutes for him when he’s playing well.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#149 » by Onus » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:05 pm

DevinVassell wrote:^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.

Kerr changing his robotic rotation minutes. Hahaha never
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#150 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:52 pm

DevinVassell wrote:^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.


It will be interesting. Kerr said he was bringing in Atkinson TO change things up, and to run the bench, so that's an interesting thing to follow.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#151 » by DevinVassell » Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:07 pm

Onus wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.

Kerr changing his robotic rotation minutes. Hahaha never


Keeping Currys' 4th qtr to a strict 6 minutes was one of the few things I complained about. Thinking 1 or 2 minutes here or there would make a massive difference to Currys end of season stamina is imo total bull. Lets also remember all the extra time he gets to sit in 4th qtr blowouts.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#152 » by tarantism » Yesterday 12:10 am

DevinVassell wrote:
Onus wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:^ I just hope hope Kerr is not too rigid with Pooles (or any players) minutes this season. Maybe he can just go with the flow of the game and decide what to do depending on the situation and the game score.

Kerr changing his robotic rotation minutes. Hahaha never


Keeping Currys' 4th qtr to a strict 6 minutes was one of the few things I complained about. Thinking 1 or 2 minutes here or there would make a massive difference to Currys end of season stamina is imo total bull. Lets also remember all the extra time he gets to sit in 4th qtr blowouts.
I feel the same way. Extended minutes in the 4th in the right scenario could have swung a few games for us last year and possibly kept us out of the play in.

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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#153 » by GQ Hot Dog » Yesterday 12:30 am

tarantism wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:
Onus wrote:Kerr changing his robotic rotation minutes. Hahaha never


Keeping Currys' 4th qtr to a strict 6 minutes was one of the few things I complained about. Thinking 1 or 2 minutes here or there would make a massive difference to Currys end of season stamina is imo total bull. Lets also remember all the extra time he gets to sit in 4th qtr blowouts.
I feel the same way. Extended minutes in the 4th in the right scenario could have swung a few games for us last year and possibly kept us out of the play in.

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Kerr has always maintained that players highly value clearly defined roles and consistent routines. I take him at his word considering he played and considering who he played with.

I would like to see Steph play less of the 1st quarter and more later but if that's a change Kerr's going to make it's only going to happen in the off season and only in consultations with Curry. So if things don't change it's probably more likely because of Curry's desires than Kerr's.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#154 » by tarantism » Yesterday 12:37 am

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
tarantism wrote:
DevinVassell wrote:
Keeping Currys' 4th qtr to a strict 6 minutes was one of the few things I complained about. Thinking 1 or 2 minutes here or there would make a massive difference to Currys end of season stamina is imo total bull. Lets also remember all the extra time he gets to sit in 4th qtr blowouts.
I feel the same way. Extended minutes in the 4th in the right scenario could have swung a few games for us last year and possibly kept us out of the play in.

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Kerr has always maintained that players highly value clearly defined roles and consistent routines. I take him at his word considering he played and considering who he played with.

I would like to see Steph play less of the 1st quarter and more later but if that's a change Kerr's going to make it's only going to happen in the off season and only in consultations with Curry. So if things don't change it's probably more likely because of Curry's desires than Kerr's.
Fair enough

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Melo and amare should thrive in this offense. If Jeremy Tyler and cole Aldridge looked that good in summer league then us knick fans have a lot to be excited about. Make room for all the bandwagoners when we take off
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#155 » by watch1958 » Yesterday 9:41 am

I think Poole would benefit from playing with a point guard when he plays without Curry.

Being a decent scoring threat who can create for others is one thing. Being the point, grinding it out for 15 minutes with Steph on the bench is another.

Also I think the other youngsters will pick things up better with someone used to being the floor general.
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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#156 » by Brick Layer » Yesterday 1:26 pm

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Re: Jordan Poole 

Post#157 » by Scoots1994 » Yesterday 3:40 pm

The reality is that with 5 new players on the roster it's going to be a process figuring out which guys work best with which. I wouldn't be surprised to see Poole minutes overlapping with Curry and no Curry in the lead up to the closing minutes, and then having both out there to close it until Klay comes back.

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