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Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move?

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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#21 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 1:45 pm

HiRez wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:It's not about Curry, Klay, Wiggins, and Green ... we know fairly well what they are. Poole, Paschall, and Wiseman's development are absolutely key. The draft picks this year being home runs is essentially required. But what maybe matters more is who they get to fill out the roster and how they come together.

Are you willing to risk everything on all those things happening? Because that's a lot of things that have to go right, where not much can go wrong. The clock is ticking, it's unlikely they'll get another shot if they blow it this year.

Standing pat and not completely mucking up the draft picks probably does get you into the playoffs and maybe several rounds deep. But I don't think much more than that. If we're still in all or nothing mode, I don't think we're quite there and young guys are iffy at best. None of them have playoff experience.


There is no risk to me whatsoever. It's just a game. "willing to risk everything" is life or death stuff.

The reality is that they know the window is closing soon but the cap hamstrings them to a large extent and the best way to get a bunch better is to draft and develop talent for the end of the window and beyond while trying to find the right cheap veteran pieces to improve the now.

I don't think there is any evidence the Warriors were ever in "all or nothing" mode.

The Warriors have tanked 3 times under this ownership to improve draft picks ... they KNOW the value of the draft is about cheap talent and the best way to build with flexibility. I just don't see them changing their philosophy suddenly because they realize their core are past 30.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#22 » by WarriorGM » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:51 pm

What on earth is wrong with you guys?

Do you all still fail to realize that Curry, Klay and Draymond form the core of the greatest regular season team of all-time? Do you not recognize the only reason they lost the finals of 2016 was because of league intervention and Curry not being at 100%?

Yes of course this team can take on the Nets if Curry, Klay and Draymond can emulate what they did in 2016. Even if the rest of the team is merely average they are a threat to any team in NBA history.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#23 » by and1GS » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:07 pm

If these playoffs have taught us anything, the Nets can beat the Nets in the same way the Nuggets beat the Nuggets. The latter had a real solid title shot, before injury. We'll see how the East shakes out, but injury may mar the Nets season as well. Building specifically to beat a single team is rarely a good idea - unless you and that team are the only teams that matter (as we were in the Cavs/Warriors seasons).

You also can't really build to beat the Nets. Unless we get a superstar and a great bench over the course of one month. So we need luck on our side, same as every team.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#24 » by AntMo22 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:24 pm

WarriorGM wrote:What on earth is wrong with you guys?

Do you all still fail to realize that Curry, Klay and Draymond form the core of the greatest regular season team of all-time? Do you not recognize the only reason they lost the finals of 2016 was because of league intervention and Curry not being at 100%?

Yes of course this team can take on the Nets if Curry, Klay and Draymond can emulate what they did in 2016. Even if the rest of the team is merely average they are a threat to any team in NBA history.
by that logic, the only reason we won in 15 was because of kyrie and love being injured. Each of the the big three will be atleast 5 years older since 2016. Not to mention Klay is coming off an Achilles+ACL, and draymond is never going to shoot the way he did in 2016.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#25 » by WarriorGM » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:58 pm

AntMo22 wrote:by that logic, the only reason we won in 15 was because of kyrie and love being injured. Each of the the big three will be atleast 5 years older since 2016. Not to mention Klay is coming off an Achilles+ACL, and draymond is never going to shoot the way he did in 2016.


On the contrary by that logic the Warriors would have trounced the Cavaliers in 2015 as well. If it took league intervention and Curry not being at 100% for the Cavaliers to barely squeak by with Kyrie and Love why wouldn't they have been able to win handily the previous year?

Where Steph, Klay and Draymond will be is the question, but based on what they've done it is ridiculous to see all this doubt. The team doesn't need a super major move if those 3 can still approximate their best. Frankly I don't think Steph has really reached his full potential yet—time is running out and he may never reach it, but I suspect he has another gear—I'm doubtful though Kerr is the coach who'll get it out of him.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#26 » by superunknown » Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:52 pm

so in 2016 the same warriors team of 2015 lost only in the last minutes of a game 7 without their starting C, iggy not 100% and steph on one leg (plus dray suspended for a pivotal game 5,when they were leading 3-1) and the year before, with bogut, iggy fine, steph with no injury and dray not being suspended they should've lost against the same cavs team which could barely beat them in the last minutes of a game 7 after all that?! what kind of twisted logic is that?
the warriors were the better team in 2015 and 2016, injuries or no injuries.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#27 » by HiRez » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:26 pm

So many things are different from 2016.

— Dubs are a lot older
— There were no teams like the Nets around then with 3 legit stars (2 of them undisputed superstar MVPs)
— Klay coming off 2 major injuries
— Draymond could actually score a bit then, and was a 3 point threat
— We had Bogut (rebounding, screening, rim defense, passing, high BBIQ from inside)
— We had a better bench with Barbosa, Livingston, Speights, Clark, Ezeli, and most importantly, prime Iguodala
— Teams hadn’t figured out how to defend us because they had never seen anything like that team, but now they have, and have tuned personnel for the task
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#28 » by ILOVEIT » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:05 pm

We are all stuck in 2016 lol.

In some ways I'm ready to move on. The team chemistry is good...for sure....but man I bet these guys are all tired of each other.

Be great to see Curry, Klay...and perhaps a new all-star with them.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#29 » by sonnyhill » Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:44 pm

"Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? "
No. The Nets are a better team.

The tough-and-realistic question, "How can we improve the team with so much of the salary cap being paid to Curry, Wiggins, Thompson and Green?" should be explored.

While we (the Warrior fanbase) saw much value this past season in Wiggins as a lock-down defender and a third scoring option, other than the Knicks (Tom Thibodeau is a big fan of Wiggins and Wiggins would fit in well with the Knicks), what other team would trade assets which could help the Warriors for Wiggins and his large salary?

Curry's resurgence, while fun to watch, did not get the team into the playoffs. Also, how committed is Curry to winning? Durant gave the Warriors discounts and took less money so the team could pay and keep its core players on the roster. Hopefully, Curry can become more like Tom Brady, Tim Duncan, and KD and give up some salary for the good of the roster.

The improvement of the Warriors may come down to how the front office navigates this upcoming draft and if/how the coaching staff can (hopefully) develop Wiseman. We all see Wiseman's shortcomings; yet, when paired with Green, Wiseman does provide more scoring than Looney. The team just gives up a lot with both defense and rebounding when Wiseman is on the court.

Getting back to the thread question "Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move?" If everything is on the table and there are no "sacred cows," that question should include making major moves in the front office, coaching staff, and roster (including Curry, Thompson, Green, and Wiggins).

Much of our fanbase sees the Warriors only through the lens of "just enjoying entertaining basketball (similar to what we watched during the painful Don Nelson years);" yet, this ownership group is about competing for and winning championships. Lacob, Guber and Company are not going to settle for "entertaining basketball" with no chance of competing for and winning championships.

Go Warriors!
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#30 » by ILOVEIT » Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:59 am

sonnyhill wrote:"Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? "
No. The Nets are a better team.

The tough-and-realistic question, "How can we improve the team with so much of the salary cap being paid to Curry, Wiggins, Thompson and Green?" should be explored.

While we (the Warrior fanbase) saw much value this past season in Wiggins as a lock-down defender and a third scoring option, other than the Knicks (Tom Thibodeau is a big fan of Wiggins and Wiggins would fit in well with the Knicks), what other team would trade assets which could help the Warriors for Wiggins and his large salary?

Curry's resurgence, while fun to watch, did not get the team into the playoffs. Also, how committed is Curry to winning? Durant gave the Warriors discounts and took less money so the team could pay and keep its core players on the roster. Hopefully, Curry can become more like Tom Brady, Tim Duncan, and KD and give up some salary for the good of the roster.

The improvement of the Warriors may come down to how the front office navigates this upcoming draft and if/how the coaching staff can (hopefully) develop Wiseman. We all see Wiseman's shortcomings; yet, when paired with Green, Wiseman does provide more scoring than Looney. The team just gives up a lot with both defense and rebounding when Wiseman is on the court.

Getting back to the thread question "Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move?" If everything is on the table and there are no "sacred cows," that question should include making major moves in the front office, coaching staff, and roster (including Curry, Thompson, Green, and Wiggins).

Much of our fanbase sees the Warriors only through the lens of "just enjoying entertaining basketball (similar to what we watched during the painful Don Nelson years);" yet, this ownership group is about competing for and winning championships. Lacob, Guber and Company are not going to settle for "entertaining basketball" with no chance of competing for and winning championships.

Go Warriors!


And really....I hated the first part of the year because of how awful the team played....looked...ugly hoops. And one thing Warrior fans know....is what great basketball looks like.

All I'm asking for next year is Klay healthy....If Wiseman comes back healthy...Poole takes another step....Warriors really just need another decent roll player...some depth...they'll be fine and in the running for a chip.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#31 » by BBQ Thurmond » Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:47 pm

ILOVEIT wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:"Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? "
No. The Nets are a better team.

The tough-and-realistic question, "How can we improve the team with so much of the salary cap being paid to Curry, Wiggins, Thompson and Green?" should be explored.

While we (the Warrior fanbase) saw much value this past season in Wiggins as a lock-down defender and a third scoring option, other than the Knicks (Tom Thibodeau is a big fan of Wiggins and Wiggins would fit in well with the Knicks), what other team would trade assets which could help the Warriors for Wiggins and his large salary?

Curry's resurgence, while fun to watch, did not get the team into the playoffs. Also, how committed is Curry to winning? Durant gave the Warriors discounts and took less money so the team could pay and keep its core players on the roster. Hopefully, Curry can become more like Tom Brady, Tim Duncan, and KD and give up some salary for the good of the roster.

The improvement of the Warriors may come down to how the front office navigates this upcoming draft and if/how the coaching staff can (hopefully) develop Wiseman. We all see Wiseman's shortcomings; yet, when paired with Green, Wiseman does provide more scoring than Looney. The team just gives up a lot with both defense and rebounding when Wiseman is on the court.

Getting back to the thread question "Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move?" If everything is on the table and there are no "sacred cows," that question should include making major moves in the front office, coaching staff, and roster (including Curry, Thompson, Green, and Wiggins).

Much of our fanbase sees the Warriors only through the lens of "just enjoying entertaining basketball (similar to what we watched during the painful Don Nelson years);" yet, this ownership group is about competing for and winning championships. Lacob, Guber and Company are not going to settle for "entertaining basketball" with no chance of competing for and winning championships.

Go Warriors!




And really....I hated the first part of the year because of how awful the team played....looked...ugly hoops. And one thing Warrior fans know....is what great basketball looks like.

All I'm asking for next year is Klay healthy....If Wiseman comes back healthy...Poole takes another step....Warriors really just need another decent roll player...some depth...they'll be fine and in the running for a chip.


With the return of Klay and the continued improvement of Poole, hopefully Wiggins taking another step forward and develop his mid-range game on offense. There were times last season when Wiggins showed flashes of becoming the Warriors' version of Kawhi Leonard, and that was fun to watch.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#32 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:12 pm

BBQ Thurmond wrote:
ILOVEIT wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:"Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? "
No. The Nets are a better team.

The tough-and-realistic question, "How can we improve the team with so much of the salary cap being paid to Curry, Wiggins, Thompson and Green?" should be explored.

While we (the Warrior fanbase) saw much value this past season in Wiggins as a lock-down defender and a third scoring option, other than the Knicks (Tom Thibodeau is a big fan of Wiggins and Wiggins would fit in well with the Knicks), what other team would trade assets which could help the Warriors for Wiggins and his large salary?

Curry's resurgence, while fun to watch, did not get the team into the playoffs. Also, how committed is Curry to winning? Durant gave the Warriors discounts and took less money so the team could pay and keep its core players on the roster. Hopefully, Curry can become more like Tom Brady, Tim Duncan, and KD and give up some salary for the good of the roster.

The improvement of the Warriors may come down to how the front office navigates this upcoming draft and if/how the coaching staff can (hopefully) develop Wiseman. We all see Wiseman's shortcomings; yet, when paired with Green, Wiseman does provide more scoring than Looney. The team just gives up a lot with both defense and rebounding when Wiseman is on the court.

Getting back to the thread question "Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move?" If everything is on the table and there are no "sacred cows," that question should include making major moves in the front office, coaching staff, and roster (including Curry, Thompson, Green, and Wiggins).

Much of our fanbase sees the Warriors only through the lens of "just enjoying entertaining basketball (similar to what we watched during the painful Don Nelson years);" yet, this ownership group is about competing for and winning championships. Lacob, Guber and Company are not going to settle for "entertaining basketball" with no chance of competing for and winning championships.

Go Warriors!




And really....I hated the first part of the year because of how awful the team played....looked...ugly hoops. And one thing Warrior fans know....is what great basketball looks like.

All I'm asking for next year is Klay healthy....If Wiseman comes back healthy...Poole takes another step....Warriors really just need another decent roll player...some depth...they'll be fine and in the running for a chip.


With the return of Klay and the continued improvement of Poole, hopefully Wiggins taking another step forward and develop his mid-range game on offense. There were times last season when Wiggins showed flashes of becoming the Warriors' version of Kawhi Leonard, and that was fun to watch.


And a couple vets and 2 lottery picks ... should be interesting.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#33 » by sonnyhill » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:03 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
BBQ Thurmond wrote:
ILOVEIT wrote:


And really....I hated the first part of the year because of how awful the team played....looked...ugly hoops. And one thing Warrior fans know....is what great basketball looks like.

All I'm asking for next year is Klay healthy....If Wiseman comes back healthy...Poole takes another step....Warriors really just need another decent roll player...some depth...they'll be fine and in the running for a chip.


With the return of Klay and the continued improvement of Poole, hopefully Wiggins taking another step forward and develop his mid-range game on offense. There were times last season when Wiggins showed flashes of becoming the Warriors' version of Kawhi Leonard, and that was fun to watch.


And a couple vets and 2 lottery picks ... should be interesting.


The narrative has shifted away from Wiggins being an overpaid stiff to watching him improve and polish his game (even with the comparison to Kawhi Leonard (which is remarkably good/great!)). Defensively, Wiggins really showed "lock-down" and "help" elite defensive skills. On offense, watching Wiggins drive-and-finish was beautiful to watch. Yes, he, Wiggins, needs to improve his mid-range game; yet, may I dare ask, "have we yet to see Wiggins's ceiling and is he still improving?"

Given the team's limited cap space, what veterans do you see as realistically feasible for Warriors to sign/trade for?
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#34 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:33 pm

sonnyhill wrote:The narrative has shifted away from Wiggins being an overpaid stiff to watching him improve and polish his game (even with the comparison to Kawhi Leonard (which is remarkably good/great!)). Defensively, Wiggins really showed "lock-down" and "help" elite defensive skills. On offense, watching Wiggins drive-and-finish was beautiful to watch. Yes, he, Wiggins, needs to improve his mid-range game; yet, may I dare ask, "have we yet to see Wiggins's ceiling and is he still improving?"

Given the team's limited cap space, what veterans do you see as realistically feasible for Warriors to sign/trade for?


I'm certain Wiggins hasn't peaked yet. One big thing playing for a quality team does is help players get more consistent. If Wiggins was consistent on offense next year like he was on defense this year it will be a huge step forward. Klay had a similar growth where his offense was "natural" but inconsistent, it's when he realized that his defense could always be there that his offensive game gained more consistency in game to game performances.

Olynyk and TJ McConnell are not CRAZY out of range and would be near perfect.

Portis would be nice if he opts out.

I really like Delon Wright but don't know the Kings would want to work with the Warriors or want Oubre.

On the cheap I probably over-like Jordan McLaughlin from the Wolves. He's small and not a great shooter but he's a good defender and can run a team reasonably well. Not likely if the Warriors really like Mannion.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#35 » by shazam_guy » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:41 pm

People overrate superstars, that's the first lesson. The Nets may not even get out of the East this year, and regardless of what happens, I give that combination another 18 months tops before they fall apart in acrimony.

You can't put three team-second-stars together and expect them to play as a team very long.

The Warriors won because they had superstars, an actual team behind them, and a good coach. Oh, and they played defense. Haven't seen much of that from the Nets except the first part. And no knock on Nash, but he's still very new to coaching.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#36 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:52 pm

shazam_guy wrote:People overrate superstars, that's the first lesson. The Nets may not even get out of the East this year, and regardless of what happens, I give that combination another 18 months tops before they fall apart in acrimony.

You can't put three team-second-stars together and expect them to play as a team very long.

The Warriors won because they had superstars, an actual team behind them, and a good coach. Oh, and they played defense. Haven't seen much of that from the Nets except the first part. And no knock on Nash, but he's still very new to coaching.


Superstars are really important, but without grunts who focus on the dirty work on the floor too winning in the playoffs gets much more difficult.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#37 » by HiRez » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:43 pm

[posted to wrong forum, can’t delete]
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#38 » by and1GS » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:56 pm

shazam_guy wrote:People overrate superstars, that's the first lesson. The Nets may not even get out of the East this year, and regardless of what happens, I give that combination another 18 months tops before they fall apart in acrimony.

You can't put three team-second-stars together and expect them to play as a team very long.

The Warriors won because they had superstars, an actual team behind them, and a good coach. Oh, and they played defense. Haven't seen much of that from the Nets except the first part. And no knock on Nash, but he's still very new to coaching.


I think the key point here is volatility.

You don't form some type of big 3, then ride them into the sunset for the next decade. With the modern NBA, 2 years of contention is solid, 3 is great and 4 is unheard of. And when a main player leaves, they leave a wreckage of a team behind them that takes a while to dig out of even if a star or two stays.

What tends to confuse me is fans who think you can completely skip that second part. Durant isn't LeBron, but look at what happened to teams after LeBron left. You can't skip the awkward re-shuffling step and that's the price you pay for going high volatility high reward.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#39 » by WarriorGM » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:21 pm

and1GS wrote:
shazam_guy wrote:People overrate superstars, that's the first lesson. The Nets may not even get out of the East this year, and regardless of what happens, I give that combination another 18 months tops before they fall apart in acrimony.

You can't put three team-second-stars together and expect them to play as a team very long.

The Warriors won because they had superstars, an actual team behind them, and a good coach. Oh, and they played defense. Haven't seen much of that from the Nets except the first part. And no knock on Nash, but he's still very new to coaching.


I think the key point here is volatility.

You don't form some type of big 3, then ride them into the sunset for the next decade. With the modern NBA, 2 years of contention is solid, 3 is great and 4 is unheard of. And when a main player leaves, they leave a wreckage of a team behind them that takes a while to dig out of even if a star or two stays.

What tends to confuse me is fans who think you can completely skip that second part. Durant isn't LeBron, but look at what happened to teams after LeBron left. You can't skip the awkward re-shuffling step and that's the price you pay for going high volatility high reward.


What makes that second part unavoidable? You can skip it. Just because it was unavoidable with LeBron doesn't mean it is unavoidable in all situations. The Russell Celtics went through iterations. The 90s Bulls did too. A more seamless transition to a post Durant team should have been possible with the Warriors as well. What has made it more difficult is Klay's injury.
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Re: Can we beat the Nets next year without making a major move? 

Post#40 » by and1GS » Wed Jun 16, 2021 5:52 pm

I think a few things have changed in the NBA since the Russell Celtics and the Jordan Bulls.
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