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Winning a Wiggins Trade

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Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#1 » by Sleepy51 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 5:46 pm

I'm a huge fan of what Wiggins delivered for us this year. He was an excellent fit for the scheme and will be an even better fit next year as Klay resumes his primacy as the #2 option. Wiggins has eliminated a lot of the negative value on his remaining contract but still objectively "overpaid." It is clear however that the road to roster improvement probably goes through his salary slot. If course if a superstar becomes available, Wiggins is the contract that has to go out to make room for bringing in a max player, but what if no superstars actually do move this summer, or if none of them choose us?

As a general rule you do not trade quality for quantity and you want to walk away with the best player in the trade. So we do not want to trade Wiggins for a pu-pu platter of 6-9th men. But, barring a superstar acquisition, what are the ideas out there for trades where we do break up Wiggins salary slot into multiple rotation players without taking a step back in terms of talent in the starting unit? Some combination of JW and the picks would have to be outgoing to balance a deal, but any ideas out there for a "non-superstar (lets say lesser players than Beale only) Wiggins trade that we actually win on the court?
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#2 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:21 pm

I haven't seen anything proposed that was reasonably likely that got good value for the Warriors starting lineup.

First off, free agents into Wiggins salary slot means a S&T which hard caps the team which effectively hamstrings the team's ability to field a roster.

Paul, Conley, Lowry, or Dragic would be nice, but they are all old, likely to miss games, are also too expensive (like Wiggins), not likely to choose a team where they would have to take a bench role, AND they make the starting 5 (currently Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Looney/Wiseman) considerably weaker.

Kawhi is the only big star FA and he's VERY unlikely to change teams.

In non-FAs at the same position as Wiggins we have LeBron, KD, Butler, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton, Ingram. Of that group 2 are CLEARLY an upgrade and totally not going to happen, Butler would likely be an upgrade but is not very available, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton are not CLEAR upgrades.

Brandom Ingram looked great for some of this year but I seriously doubt the Pels have any interest.

I would really like to get some quality mid-grade vets who are not in their mid 30s yet who are smart and can fit the scheme. Unfortunately that's pretty hard to find for the TPMLE or vet min.

The vet centers under contract that COULD be traded for using Oubre are just not very good. Point guard/combo guards are more likely but they are often not really worth the money or they will be too expensive to get.

Pretty tough to make big steps on this team in this market. Chances are the best way for the team to take big steps is keeping Wiggins and drafting REALLY well and developing the players under contract.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#3 » by Onus » Tue Jun 8, 2021 6:43 pm

The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#4 » by azwfan » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:09 pm

Maybe something with Gary Harris and Terrance Ross, though I’m not sure why Orlando does it, and not sure it makes us any better.

But it would split up that salary and allow us to use Harris’ expiring money plus Wiseman (and a pick) to get perhaps a low level allstar (and keep Ross).

Edit: And if there is no followup trade, we exit 20m of Wiggins salary the following year for a small production drop. (Wiggins to Ross)
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#5 » by and1GS » Tue Jun 8, 2021 7:24 pm

Getting back to Sleep's question...I'm not sure there's a deal out there where we come out on top while receiving multiple rotational guys. Wiggins salary is mostly ballast for a trade, which is a shame because I really feel he fits great. If we're trading him (plus pieces) for non stars, we need to at least get back a Wiggins shaped player along with one or more of the following: a backup playmaker, a rangey 3/D guy, traditional warriors 5 (don't do anything stupid, jump, expect to play 20 mins a game) that (ideally) can pass and/or a scorer off the bench.

I don't have the answer, but here are some wild ideas that do work salary wise:

The 'Re-Arranging Chairs on the Titanic' Trade
Blazers Deal: Covington, Powell, Zach Collins

Warriors Deal: Wiggins and a future first

Why: Blazers need to just try something new. What they have isn't working. Powell is in the last year of his deal and will command $20M plus, Zach Collins is perma-injured and Covington was a non factor all year. They get potentially the best player in the deal (and one that can help solve their horrendous issues on defense) and can cut bait after a year once Wiggs is an expiring. The warriors get a ton of depth and, if Zach can stay healthy, I actually love watching him play. Would be perfect for us. Covington does some Wiggs things and Powell obviously is the crown jewel here. Could start or provide a massive spark off the bench.

The '**** Contract for **** Contract + More' Trade
Kings Deal: Buddy Hield and Delon Wright

Warriors Deal: Wiggins

Why: We wouldn't need to deal anything beyond Wigg to make this work and maybe Buddy looks different in a new environment. Delon is an expiring and would be excellent as a backup on our team playing important clutch time minutes.

The 'Let's At Least Make The Call' Trade
Boston Deals: Mahcus Smaht, Tristan Kardashian, Nesmith

Warriors Deal: Wiggins and our later first (maybe protected and reduces to two seconds over time)

Why: Tristan is being actively driven out of BOS. Nesmith hasn't gotten a fair shake. Smart is in every mock deal for 5 years now and they seem to be done with him. Marcus immediately replaces the defense from Wiggins, but the perceived negative value of Tristan and low output of Nesmith allows us to get a starting 5 (yes I think Tristan would be great in our system) and jack of all trades defender (Smart) for very little.

The '**** it, They've Gotta Change SOMETHING' Trade
Pelicans Deal: Adams, Lonzo, Jackson, Hart

Warriors Deal: Wiggins, S&T Oubre at current contract value, 1-2 second rounders

Why: It's clear the Pelicans need to make changes. IMO that should be their coach, but this at least give them a full overhaul with 'defense first' players on one ofthe worst defensive teams in the NBA. Jackson I think can do everything James does right now. Adams is a perceived negative contract (though expiring, so my argument holds minimal merit) and Hart/Ball are legitimate, helpful rotational guys.


Out of all those options, the Blazers and Boston deals are most appealing. Mostly because the Pelicans deal is unrealistic IMO. Once we start adding Wiseman in that does change the calculus, but IMO not in a significant enough way to warrant his inclusion. For example, throwing him in isn't swapping out Delon Wright for De'Aaron Fox.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#6 » by FNQ » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:04 pm

Onus wrote:The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything


If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#7 » by Onus » Tue Jun 8, 2021 8:09 pm

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything


If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground

How come Boucher couldn't solidify the starting center spot in toronto?
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#8 » by sonnyhill » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:00 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:I haven't seen anything proposed that was reasonably likely that got good value for the Warriors starting lineup.

First off, free agents into Wiggins salary slot means a S&T which hard caps the team which effectively hamstrings the team's ability to field a roster.

Paul, Conley, Lowry, or Dragic would be nice, but they are all old, likely to miss games, are also too expensive (like Wiggins), not likely to choose a team where they would have to take a bench role, AND they make the starting 5 (currently Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Looney/Wiseman) considerably weaker.

Kawhi is the only big star FA and he's VERY unlikely to change teams.

In non-FAs at the same position as Wiggins we have LeBron, KD, Butler, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton, Ingram. Of that group 2 are CLEARLY an upgrade and totally not going to happen, Butler would likely be an upgrade but is not very available, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton are not CLEAR upgrades.

Brandom Ingram looked great for some of this year but I seriously doubt the Pels have any interest.

I would really like to get some quality mid-grade vets who are not in their mid 30s yet who are smart and can fit the scheme. Unfortunately that's pretty hard to find for the TPMLE or vet min.

The vet centers under contract that COULD be traded for using Oubre are just not very good. Point guard/combo guards are more likely but they are often not really worth the money or they will be too expensive to get.

Pretty tough to make big steps on this team in this market. Chances are the best way for the team to take big steps is keeping Wiggins and drafting REALLY well and developing the players under contract.


The most pragmatic and sensible statement that I have read on this board.

Good assessment and great post!
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#9 » by Hopper15 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:15 pm

Wiggins isn't the guy to piece meal. They need to keep that salary slot intact, even if they don't trade him until 2022 or even 2023. Wiggins is the only road to acquiring an all star caliber guy.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#10 » by FNQ » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:29 pm

Onus wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything


If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground

How come Boucher couldn't solidify the starting center spot in toronto?


That's exactly what he did.

But if the Raptors dont want to give him his next contract due to his slight frame, which is very possible, thats the guy we should be targeting. He's quick, he rebounds, and he's not bad offensively. That's the kind of guy we thought we were drafting.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#11 » by Onus » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:42 pm

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:
FNQ wrote:
If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground

How come Boucher couldn't solidify the starting center spot in toronto?


That's exactly what he did.

But if the Raptors dont want to give him his next contract due to his slight frame, which is very possible, thats the guy we should be targeting. He's quick, he rebounds, and he's not bad offensively. That's the kind of guy we thought we were drafting.

i thought i remembered khem birch down the stretch for them.

Boucher is fine but Draymond is going to be our center as long as he's here and really OG and Siakam are much better fits. I can't see a lineup of Curry/Klay/Siakam/Green/Boucher being better than Curry/Klay/OG/Siakam/Green.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#12 » by xdrta+ » Tue Jun 8, 2021 9:52 pm

I don't think you can win a Wiggins trade because in most places around the league Wiggins is still seen as expensive negative value. Maybe a year from now someone might want him as an expiring.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#13 » by FNQ » Tue Jun 8, 2021 10:03 pm

Onus wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:How come Boucher couldn't solidify the starting center spot in toronto?


That's exactly what he did.

But if the Raptors dont want to give him his next contract due to his slight frame, which is very possible, thats the guy we should be targeting. He's quick, he rebounds, and he's not bad offensively. That's the kind of guy we thought we were drafting.

i thought i remembered khem birch down the stretch for them.

Boucher is fine but Draymond is going to be our center as long as he's here and really OG and Siakam are much better fits. I can't see a lineup of Curry/Klay/Siakam/Green/Boucher being better than Curry/Klay/OG/Siakam/Green.


I can, because the first one can rebound way better, defend inside/block shots better, and can actually play in games longer. Draymond is not going to be playing 20+ minutes at C, and I very much disagree with the idea that Draymond is going to be our center. We use him there because we havent had a skilled enough all-around big man here, and Boucher is exactly that.

One of the few logical paths for us drafting Wiseman was to keep Draymond away from the C position. A trade for OG means we've locked in our deathball unit, which was what, 10-15mpg? Vs the Boucher unit, which would be closer to 25mpg. Looney can eat 10-15, and we can leave the deathball unit as a sub 10mpg group like we did when it was most effective
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#14 » by ChuckDurn » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:02 pm

sonnyhill wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:I haven't seen anything proposed that was reasonably likely that got good value for the Warriors starting lineup.

First off, free agents into Wiggins salary slot means a S&T which hard caps the team which effectively hamstrings the team's ability to field a roster.

Paul, Conley, Lowry, or Dragic would be nice, but they are all old, likely to miss games, are also too expensive (like Wiggins), not likely to choose a team where they would have to take a bench role, AND they make the starting 5 (currently Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Green, Looney/Wiseman) considerably weaker.

Kawhi is the only big star FA and he's VERY unlikely to change teams.

In non-FAs at the same position as Wiggins we have LeBron, KD, Butler, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton, Ingram. Of that group 2 are CLEARLY an upgrade and totally not going to happen, Butler would likely be an upgrade but is not very available, Harris, Hayward, Porter, Middleton are not CLEAR upgrades.

Brandom Ingram looked great for some of this year but I seriously doubt the Pels have any interest.

I would really like to get some quality mid-grade vets who are not in their mid 30s yet who are smart and can fit the scheme. Unfortunately that's pretty hard to find for the TPMLE or vet min.

The vet centers under contract that COULD be traded for using Oubre are just not very good. Point guard/combo guards are more likely but they are often not really worth the money or they will be too expensive to get.

Pretty tough to make big steps on this team in this market. Chances are the best way for the team to take big steps is keeping Wiggins and drafting REALLY well and developing the players under contract.


The most pragmatic and sensible statement that I have read on this board.

Good assessment and great post!

Yep. One small additional avenue might be to trade one of our picks (assuming the Minnesota one conveys) for a “contribute now” kind of guy, though it can’t really be someone who’s already making much money...... which definitely narrows the field.

And maybe, just maybe, we could convince a decent vet or two to come for the minimum, after seeing what CUrry was able to do this year.

But really, the options of “getting somebody new in here who is going to make the difference” don’t really exist.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#15 » by DevinVassell » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:41 pm

I think the Rockets could be ripe for the plucking. They have zero incentive to do well next year as their FRP conveys to Detroit 17-30. They would be better off moving their better players/vets and trying to get some more assets and reload for the future rather than competing and hanging around in a developmental no mans land.

Wiggins, Minny FRP (or Warriors FRP)
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#16 » by Onus » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:51 pm

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:
FNQ wrote:
That's exactly what he did.

But if the Raptors dont want to give him his next contract due to his slight frame, which is very possible, thats the guy we should be targeting. He's quick, he rebounds, and he's not bad offensively. That's the kind of guy we thought we were drafting.

i thought i remembered khem birch down the stretch for them.

Boucher is fine but Draymond is going to be our center as long as he's here and really OG and Siakam are much better fits. I can't see a lineup of Curry/Klay/Siakam/Green/Boucher being better than Curry/Klay/OG/Siakam/Green.


I can, because the first one can rebound way better, defend inside/block shots better, and can actually play in games longer. Draymond is not going to be playing 20+ minutes at C, and I very much disagree with the idea that Draymond is going to be our center. We use him there because we havent had a skilled enough all-around big man here, and Boucher is exactly that.

One of the few logical paths for us drafting Wiseman was to keep Draymond away from the C position. A trade for OG means we've locked in our deathball unit, which was what, 10-15mpg? Vs the Boucher unit, which would be closer to 25mpg. Looney can eat 10-15, and we can leave the deathball unit as a sub 10mpg group like we did when it was most effective

Boucher is probably one of the few centers that could work with draymond, but he still presents the same problems against elite centers because he doesn’t have the heft to hold up. I’ll try to watch a few games with Toronto and take a look at Boucher.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#17 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:52 pm

DevinVassell wrote:I think the Rockets could be ripe for the plucking. They have zero incentive to do well next year as their FRP conveys to Detroit 17-30. They would be better off moving their better players/vets and trying to get some more assets and reload for the future rather than competing and hanging around in a developmental no mans land.

Wiggins, Minny FRP (or Warriors FRP)
for
Wood and Olynyk


Olynyk is a free agent.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#18 » by and1GS » Tue Jun 8, 2021 11:57 pm

An aside but i'd love Olynk for our MLE. Unfortunately I still feel we'll need to prioritize a playmaker over him for that MLE slot given it is our only real tool.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#19 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:23 am

and1GS wrote:An aside but i'd love Olynk for our MLE. Unfortunately I still feel we'll need to prioritize a playmaker over him for that MLE slot given it is our only real tool.


Yeah, I'd love Olynyk. I think the Warriors could maybe sell him as an end of career location and that he'd have a fair shot to start and get significant minutes with good veteran starters.

The playmaker is a much tougher sell when they know they will be behind several others looking for minutes, particularly depending on who is drafted. Cade (not likely) or Suggs (more likely but still unlikely) would immediately be given a chance to take that role. In that 6-10 range Barnes, Giddey, and Mann would get first chance at being the 2nd unit playmaker. At 14 Springer and Butler would not likely be counted on in the FA decisions but free agents may look at the Warriors as even more of an issue of minutes.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#20 » by and1GS » Wed Jun 9, 2021 12:58 am

Scoots1994 wrote:
and1GS wrote:An aside but i'd love Olynk for our MLE. Unfortunately I still feel we'll need to prioritize a playmaker over him for that MLE slot given it is our only real tool.


Yeah, I'd love Olynyk. I think the Warriors could maybe sell him as an end of career location and that he'd have a fair shot to start and get significant minutes with good veteran starters.

The playmaker is a much tougher sell when they know they will be behind several others looking for minutes, particularly depending on who is drafted. Cade (not likely) or Suggs (more likely but still unlikely) would immediately be given a chance to take that role. In that 6-10 range Barnes, Giddey, and Mann would get first chance at being the 2nd unit playmaker. At 14 Springer and Butler would not likely be counted on in the FA decisions but free agents may look at the Warriors as even more of an issue of minutes.


Not the right thread for this so I'll leave it at this. Definitely agree with ya. Though I think if we fall out of the Suggs/Green tier, it's asking a lot to expect the pick to come in and contribute at a 6-7 rotational player level in year 1 as a playmaker. Which is why I think they'd go the vet route. Need to get more up on the other prospects as I'm hoping I'm missing something.
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