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Winning a Wiggins Trade

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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#21 » by Sleepy51 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:17 am

xdrta+ wrote:I don't think you can win a Wiggins trade because in most places around the league Wiggins is still seen as expensive negative value. Maybe a year from now someone might want him as an expiring.


He's only got two years left. Anyone trading for him gets a very good rotation player who will be a monster expiring in 22-23. That's not problematic at his eye opening level of play this year. But the premise of the thread was that we include some combination of JW/Picks to add up to at least one player at least equal to Wiggins on court coming back.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#22 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:22 am

and1GS wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
and1GS wrote:An aside but i'd love Olynk for our MLE. Unfortunately I still feel we'll need to prioritize a playmaker over him for that MLE slot given it is our only real tool.


Yeah, I'd love Olynyk. I think the Warriors could maybe sell him as an end of career location and that he'd have a fair shot to start and get significant minutes with good veteran starters.

The playmaker is a much tougher sell when they know they will be behind several others looking for minutes, particularly depending on who is drafted. Cade (not likely) or Suggs (more likely but still unlikely) would immediately be given a chance to take that role. In that 6-10 range Barnes, Giddey, and Mann would get first chance at being the 2nd unit playmaker. At 14 Springer and Butler would not likely be counted on in the FA decisions but free agents may look at the Warriors as even more of an issue of minutes.


Not the right thread for this so I'll leave it at this. Definitely agree with ya. Though I think if we fall out of the Suggs/Green tier, it's asking a lot to expect the pick to come in and contribute at a 6-7 rotational player level in year 1 as a playmaker. Which is why I think they'd go the vet route. Need to get more up on the other prospects as I'm hoping I'm missing something.


Yeah, that's why I said they'd "get first chance". But I do think vet playmakers would look at the Warriors roster without those draft picks and see that they are going to be #3 in running the team at best, add in the players staying from this year and a top 10 pick and they'd have to think their way to getting significant minutes would be uphill.

Another factor against the Warriors with some players is the pace they play at. A lot of ball dominant players don't want to play at high pace.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#23 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 1:31 am

I forgot Davion Mitchell. If they drafted him he'd be in line to get minutes as a rookie.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#24 » by GSWFan1994 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:43 am

I think Olynyk will easily get in the neighborhood of 15/18 mi/year. Way out of the MLE range.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#25 » by Scoots1994 » Wed Jun 9, 2021 2:21 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:I think Olynyk will easily get in the neighborhood of 15/18 mi/year. Way out of the MLE range.


Yeah, it would have to be a heck of a sales job to get him.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#26 » by cpower » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:41 pm

if Kawhi wants to come here, its the best you can ask for. SnT for Wiggins Wiseman 6th .. or clippers can see him walking out for nothing
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#27 » by whatisacenter » Wed Jun 9, 2021 8:48 pm

cpower wrote:if Kawhi wants to come here, its the best you can ask for. SnT for Wiggins Wiseman 6th .. or clippers can see him walking out for nothing


a S&T would not work for the Warriors being able to fill out the roster so it would take Kawhi saying trade me to the Warriors and then opting in to his final year of his current contract. And yes, you throw Wiggins, Wiseman, Minny pick and a couple of Warriors FRPs if needed to get him here.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#28 » by Scoots1994 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:01 am

whatisacenter wrote:
cpower wrote:if Kawhi wants to come here, its the best you can ask for. SnT for Wiggins Wiseman 6th .. or clippers can see him walking out for nothing


a S&T would not work for the Warriors being able to fill out the roster so it would take Kawhi saying trade me to the Warriors and then opting in to his final year of his current contract. And yes, you throw Wiggins, Wiseman, Minny pick and a couple of Warriors FRPs if needed to get him here.


I'm okay with the Warriors paying to get Kawhi, but that's too much. He's a great player and he has come up big in the playoffs but he's missed a LOT of games (only 2 seasons in his career with at least 70 games played).
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#29 » by cpower » Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:55 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:
cpower wrote:if Kawhi wants to come here, its the best you can ask for. SnT for Wiggins Wiseman 6th .. or clippers can see him walking out for nothing


a S&T would not work for the Warriors being able to fill out the roster so it would take Kawhi saying trade me to the Warriors and then opting in to his final year of his current contract. And yes, you throw Wiggins, Wiseman, Minny pick and a couple of Warriors FRPs if needed to get him here.


I'm okay with the Warriors paying to get Kawhi, but that's too much. He's a great player and he has come up big in the playoffs but he's missed a LOT of games (only 2 seasons in his career with at least 70 games played).

he does not play in regular season anymore which is ok for us...dude is a beast in playoffs
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#30 » by and1GS » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:13 pm

Good to see the OG question of 'how would you split Wiggins into multiple rotational players' has morphed into the predictable 'let's get Kawhi.'

Back to the topic at hand, I think you'll need to target guys like Marcus Smart who are at the end of the road with their current team, but make either high or medium salaries. I absolutely wouldn't package Wiggins and our Minny pick to make a deal happen unless we were going the superstar route, at which point Wiseman should probably be involved. Personally, I don't see that superstar deal materializing so I'd prefer to draft a guy like Davion (as another poster mentioned) then roll with what we got. Or draft a playmaker then structure a deal around the aforementioned philosophy. Half the Pelicans team, Marcus Smart for BOS, most of the Kings and several Blazers are all roughly at the end of the line for their teams - I'd target players there.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#31 » by The-Power » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:19 am

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything


If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground

The price is OG. I'd even be willing to swallow that Siakam contract for him! I wouldn't do a deal in which we throw every single asset away, because Siakam doesn't have that kind of value in my mind (he's possibly half a season removed from being talked about like Wiggins is now – fine player, but really overpaid for quite some time).
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#32 » by Upperclass » Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:49 pm

Wiggins trades, players to target:

Pacers: Turner, Bogdan, Holiday
Bulls: Lauri, Thad, Vucevic
Celts: Smart, Jaylen Brown
Hornets: Devote Graham, Hayward (though not sure his political beliefs would fit in that locker room), Biyombo
Cavs: Kevin Love - terrible contract but this is the second best swap to make imo and you could prob get the Cavs to throw in pieces like Windler and or Osman
Rockets: Eric Gordon, Wood and try to get House and Sterling Brown if fully healed
Clippers: Kawhi
Miami: throw everything plus Wiggins at Bam
Knicks: fits here in their lineup perfectly but I don't know if they have pieces to trade back
Orlando: maybe Otto, Harris other pieces
Philly: everything plus Wiggins for Simmons
Portland for CJ but obviously very unlikely
Spurs for a resigned DeRozan and Kelson or other pieces -- best deal imo

Toronto obviously won't deal Siakam straight up imo BUT a Wiggins, Wiseman, Warriors pick trio might intrigue them.. would need Siakam, OG and Boucher going back.. Warriors should call

Would fit on the Wiz as a salary dump but they have nothing to trade back
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#33 » by Scoots1994 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:45 pm

and1GS wrote:Good to see the OG question of 'how would you split Wiggins into multiple rotational players' has morphed into the predictable 'let's get Kawhi.'

Back to the topic at hand, I think you'll need to target guys like Marcus Smart who are at the end of the road with their current team, but make either high or medium salaries. I absolutely wouldn't package Wiggins and our Minny pick to make a deal happen unless we were going the superstar route, at which point Wiseman should probably be involved. Personally, I don't see that superstar deal materializing so I'd prefer to draft a guy like Davion (as another poster mentioned) then roll with what we got. Or draft a playmaker then structure a deal around the aforementioned philosophy. Half the Pelicans team, Marcus Smart for BOS, most of the Kings and several Blazers are all roughly at the end of the line for their teams - I'd target players there.


I agree, but Smart really fell off this year. I think an S&T of Oubre for Smart and Thompson would work for the Celtics and the Warriors.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#34 » by and1GS » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:57 pm

That's interesting, because Thompson is a dead contract to them after an awful season. I'm not sure they'd do that deal (I doubt anyone is dumb enough to see Oubre as a net positive on a winning team), but it's worth a phone call. Tristan and Marcus would be great for us IMO.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#35 » by FNQ » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:12 pm

The-Power wrote:
FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:The only trade I've liked so far has been Siakam and OG for Wiggins + everything


If we make a trade with TOR and dont wind up with Boucher, burn this **** thing to the ground

The price is OG. I'd even be willing to swallow that Siakam contract for him! I wouldn't do a deal in which we throw every single asset away, because Siakam doesn't have that kind of value in my mind (he's possibly half a season removed from being talked about like Wiggins is now – fine player, but really overpaid for quite some time).


Siakam has a historical season to point to as an excellent 3rd option.. Wiggins doesn't have that. I think Siakam and Wiggins are similar in that the trendy GB has underrated both because they are overpaid, but I'd argue that Wiggins is way more so than Siakam

OG is a very good 3&D player but I feel like we're going down the RoCo path with him.. his value is because he's a great fit for today's NBA, but that value is also driven by the idea that he wont cost what a player of that impact typically costs (be it via trade value, salary, or both). The one metric I still use a lot that's public (BPM) shows that while OG is very good at what he does, the actual impact falls a bit short.. Boucher OTOH had a BPM near +3, and is such a perfect fit for a running, heavy spacing, and switch heavy team. I'd move a lot to get him and lockdown the C position for the rest of Curry's career (which probably will be the entire span of Boucher's effectiveness too)
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#36 » by Onus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:03 pm

Well siakam is out 5 months so there goes that. Maybe Toronto tears it down?
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#37 » by FNQ » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:47 pm

Onus wrote:Well siakam is out 5 months so there goes that. Maybe Toronto tears it down?


Really dont think this moves the needle too much. He'll likely be out until the beginning of November, right when the season starts. If TOR is motivated, or willing, to move him, this shouldnt change much
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#38 » by Onus » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:56 pm

FNQ wrote:
Onus wrote:Well siakam is out 5 months so there goes that. Maybe Toronto tears it down?


Really dont think this moves the needle too much. He'll likely be out until the beginning of November, right when the season starts. If TOR is motivated, or willing, to move him, this shouldnt change much

I don't think toronto trades him anyway. Agreed it doesn't change much.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#39 » by The-Power » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:24 pm

FNQ wrote:Siakam has a historical season to point to as an excellent 3rd option.. Wiggins doesn't have that.

And he's living off that season ever since. Yet, even in that year his efficiency dropped a lot in the playoffs. Let's not even get started on what a train wreck the next postseason was, and that he's now had his second consecutive regular season in which he couldn't score at even league average efficiency. Now he's out for 5 months, for what it's worth. I'll stand by it: there's a good chance that Siakam's contract is soon going to be considered negative in value.

FNQ wrote:The one metric I still use a lot that's public (BPM) shows that while OG is very good at what he does, the actual impact falls a bit short.. Boucher OTOH had a BPM near +3, and is such a perfect fit for a running, heavy spacing, and switch heavy team.

Using BPM as the one approximation of impact is problematic, though. I'd also be very careful comparing across positions and/or roles.

OG is an elite defender at the wing who can switch onto 1's and 5's. That doesn't necessarily show up in the boxscore on which BPM is based entirely. It's also worth mentioning that OG still has upside considering his age and trajectory.

With Boucher we're also talking about someone who is 28 years old and just had his first meaningful NBA season while still only playing 24 MPG and only starting 14 games (his only games as an NBA starter). I think you're having too much faith in Boucher if you think he's virtually guaranteed to be the solution to our Center problem.
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Re: Winning a Wiggins Trade 

Post#40 » by osx28 » Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:48 am

Winning a Wiggins trade would be someone paying us to get him. In a Zach Lowe podcast he was saying how Dallas might want have no choice but to trade Porzingis for pennies in order to get rid of at least 1 year of his 100 million contract so they can get a better free agent asap . If hypothetically they were so desperate to do that, would it be worth the coin-flip for the warriors to get Porzingis and DFS for Wiggins?

Last year I thought Wiggs and the #2 for Porzingis was a good deal. This year, I'm not sure I even want those 2 mavs for Wiggs.

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