Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

[HiRez]

The 2 guys I went back and forth on for the Warriors pick were Kuminga and Franz. In the end I gave Franz the slight edge just because I thought he'd fit the system perfectly and would be able to contribute sooner. But I was not unhappy they picked Kuminga and he's showing more playability much earlier than I thought he could.

Even last night, you could say he had a horrible game because of the freethrowing and the final Jokic block but I still don't feel like he's the one who lost the game for us, he injected some much-needed energy and penetration we weren't getting and even with the bad points he still had the highest plus-minus on the team.

If someone were to offer me the ability to swap Kuminga for Wagner, I'm not sure I would do it even though Franz is the better player right now. Kuminga is super rough but he has that specialness aura and you can see it almost every time he plays.

[The-Power]

No point in wringing hands about it now.

But only after 30 games or so, it's hard to deny that Wagner would have helped more this season and possibly the next couple of seasons after this one, because of better shooting.

He may never be the defender that JK is but on the other hand, JK may never reach the higher ceiling either.

Basic things like FT efficiency, ability to hit open jumpers at a decent clip are the things which determine how many minutes they can play JK.

Clearly Wagner would be playable for more minutes right now.

That may change by the end of the season, or in the next couple of seasons.

Or that may never change. If he's a sub 43/32/65 shooter after a couple of seasons, that's a limited role player.

Fun fact: Wagner is currently scoring at worse efficiency than Kuminga and does so at lower volume per 100 possessions.

[KevinMcreynolds]

I wanted Kuminga and Sengun with 7 and 14

looks like those would have been the best picks

therefore, I'm the smartest man alive

[Scoots1994]

That is exactly my point though, if Wiseman was a faster Bogut with shooting I wouldnt be saying Wiseman is a bad fit.

By the time Bogut got to the Warriors he was an elite defensive player. He was also one of the best screen setters and passing bigs in the NBA.

Those are all some of Wiseman's biggest flaws. Wiseman has always been a horrible defender, his spacial awareness defensively is about as bad as it gets. He also isnt a passer in anyway shape or form. He's also never been a consistent shooter either. Look at his shooting distance splits from last year:

10-16ft: 24%
16ft-3p: 38%
3pt: 31%
FT%: 63%

Nothing from that screams a good shooter. And again in high school his jump shot was not a main aspect of his game. His shooting is all based off of potential and not actual production at the moment.

My thing is this, players dont go from horrible defensive awareness to average within a year or two. Most of the time they stay horrible defenders, but the ones that do get better, it usually takes quite sometime. So even say he improves his jumper over the next year or two. The chances of him being a good defender by the time Curry/Klay/Draymond are still the main core of this team are pretty close to nill.

And I just dont see how a score first big who doesnt pass, is a bad defender, and doesnt have a consistent jumper a great fit for this current team and system.

I think the Warriors plan is for Wiseman to get significantly better at those things rather than not improve from where he was as a rookie.

Okay so you didnt read my post then. Ill repeat what I said, the vast majority of players that have horrible defensive awareness usually dont become good defenders and the few that do, it doesnt happen in a year or 2. Most guys who dont have great offensive awareness and passing IQ, usually dont gain that within a year or 2. Most guys who are 63% FT shooters and horrible jump shooting percentages from all areas, dont tend to become good shooters within a year or 2.

Draymond is about to be 32, Steph is about to be 34. These guys dont have 3-4 years to wait around.

Really the only reasonable argument that Wiseman was a good pick and its worth keeping him is to have him for post Curry/Draymond/Klay core. Because unless he has some crazy progression rate that we haven't really seen before, he's not going to help this core out while they're still competing for championships.

And if that is the argument fine. But that isnt the argument Im seeing anyone making. Im seeing people saying they're hoping Wiseman will be a KD like perimeter player. Or Wiseman will be like a Bogut kind of big. Just goes to show really how varying of thoughts people have on what kind of player they wish Wiseman to become, because you cant get any more polar opposite than those two. People seem to be really trying to force Wiseman into these roles that he isnt any good at and not accepting the actual player he currently is.

It's not that I didn't read it, it's more that I don't project much from his rookie year to mean much to what he can be.

[SpreeChokeJob]

I wanted Kuminga and Sengun with 7 and 14

looks like those would have been the best picks

therefore, I'm the smartest man alive

I think a lot of the decisions for personnel revolved around Wiseman these past two years. So Sengun was not in the picture or any center roster addition as long as the Warriors had Wiseman and Looney.

Looney has proven himself to be a borderline starter with faults, but absolutely a great reserve center. Wiseman hasn’t proven anything, but they are heavily invested. They lost a whole year to get him, so there’s going to be a lot of pressure to show something.

[EvanZ]

Looney has proven himself to be a borderline starter with faults, but absolutely a great reserve center. Wiseman hasn’t proven anything, but they are heavily invested. They lost a whole year to get him, so there’s going to be a lot of pressure to show something.

At this point Wiseman probably has very little trade value anyway. The original sin was passing over LaMelo, but it is what it is. Now they have to hope Wiseman at some point can legitimately take the starting job from Looney by earning it.

[clyde21]

the Wise pick is gonna end up haunting us in more ways than one.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Looney has proven himself to be a borderline starter with faults, but absolutely a great reserve center. Wiseman hasn’t proven anything, but they are heavily invested. They lost a whole year to get him, so there’s going to be a lot of pressure to show something.

At this point Wiseman probably has very little trade value anyway. The original sin was passing over LaMelo, but it is what it is. Now they have to hope Wiseman at some point can legitimately take the starting job from Looney by earning it.

I’m not sold completely on Lamelo like everyone else is. Miles Bridges looks more important on that team than him. I’d rather have Halliburton on this team because of his bbiq, even if this team was down Dray, Halliburton would have this team not missing a beat.

But this team made a commitment to draft Wiseman. Oubre was a byproduct of that decision. By drafting a center, they had to get the oobs. Whoever was making the decisions that year was striking out left and right.

[wco81]

Charlotte has improved but ultimately the test is whether Melo takes them to the playoffs, at least win a round during his rookie deal. He has good stats, which will likely get him a big second contract.

But if they're not making a playoffs run, then the money they pay him and Bridges will hamper them from improving more.

[TB]

the Wise pick is gonna end up haunting us in more ways than one.

Hindsight and all that, but it is fun to look back at actual ideas that were on this board... one of the popular ones was:

trade back with Knicks, give up #2 and potentially protected 2021 pick (that turned into Moody). Get Mitchell Robinson, Haliburton, Bane.

Whats funny is having to add the 2021 1st would have also kept us from signing Oubre. And also probably caused us to make playoffs and give up that pick... but, we'd have Haliburton, Bane, Robinson, and still have Kuminga.

It's beating a dead horse and I'm actually really excited for Wiseman to get back on the court, but it is a fun what-if game.

[clyde21]

i still want Hali, I would go to Sac and offer up Poole for Hali straight up if they are interested, maybe Poole/Wiseman for Hali/future pick, something along those lines.

[TB]

i still want Hali, I would go to Sac and offer up Poole for Hali straight up if they are interested, maybe Poole/Wiseman for Hali/future pick, something along those lines.

I don't think they would say yes Hali for Poole and Wiseman. Kuminga maybe the only guy they would consider. In other words, I just don't see anyway of getting him.

That being said, Kings are the Kings and you never know. I still can't believe the Davion pick... Sengun would have been so ideal in that spot.

[NeoWarriors]

Oh man, you guys can turn any thread into an anti-Wiseman thread. What does any of this have to do with Jonathan Kuminga?

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[SpreeChokeJob]

Oh man, you guys can turn any thread into an anti-Wiseman thread. What does any of this have to do with Jonathan Kuminga?

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I think going forward if they keep everything as is with Wiseman Kuminga, they will still need another big PF. I see Kuminga inheriting the three spot. That is if Wiseman doesn’t show significant improvement as an actual big man on the defensive end.

Looney for all his physical issues plays beyond all the surgeries did to him because he is smart on the court.

[TB]

Oh man, you guys can turn any thread into an anti-Wiseman thread. What does any of this have to do with Jonathan Kuminga?

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Knew this was coming.


As for Kuminga, it's always fun to keep track of him and Franz. I think we all agree on the general gist of that situation... a lot of us liked Franz as the pick, until Kuminga was available, but we all still like Franz as a player too. Franz is crushing it, and Kuminga is showing crazy potential.

I think many would be shocked how much he's right there with Franz in terms of per100 numbers (yes I know how role/rotations/etc skew these)... he's ahead of him in PPG, TS%, rebounding, double the FT rate, higher WS/48, pretty equal steals/assists but better advanced defensive numbers. Big difference between the two is Franz is way ahead in playmaking/assists and shooting the 3, but Kuminga way ahead in getting to the line and scoring inside.

Two amazing prospects, and I think Kuminga will eventually be seen as the better player.

[Ilovethebay]

i still want Hali, I would go to Sac and offer up Poole for Hali straight up if they are interested, maybe Poole/Wiseman for Hali/future pick, something along those lines.

I don't think they would say yes Hali for Poole and Wiseman. Kuminga maybe the only guy they would consider. In other words, I just don't see anyway of getting him.

That being said, Kings are the Kings and you never know. I still can't believe the Davion pick... Sengun would have been so ideal in that spot.

I don't know about you two but I think I would pull the trigger on a Hali for Kuminga swap. But I'm a win now guy

[jaymo123]

The Franz/Kuminga comparison is unjust. One is on a bad team and has plenty of playing time. The other is on a potential finals team with good vets in front him, getting minutes only when players are injured or blowouts.

[DevinVassell]

Haliburton for Kuminga - NO
Haliburton for Wiseman - NO

Looking back on this thread in a few years will be fun. Patience grasshoppers.

[EvanZ]

I had Franz ahead of Kuminga but Kuminga is definitely better than I thought. Not mad at the pick at all.


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[Scoots1994]

I think the Wiseman debate is dumb because we know nothing more that we knew many months ago but the talk is still non-stop.