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Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#361 » by Mac1958 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 11:14 am

and1GS wrote:
floppymoose wrote:If there's one thing Kuminga can actually do on offense right now, it's getting creative to fluidly drive to the basket.

I was surprised by the way Kuminga saw the floor. I assumed that, at this early point, he was just about driving to the basket like a Mack Truck and taking jumpers, but he had some really nice passes and even showed some restraint at times.

Okay, John Stockton he's not, but that seems like a good sign for an Alpha Dog who's so young.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#362 » by GQ Hot Dog » Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:47 pm

watch1958 wrote:
RichmondWarrior wrote:Would you guys have taken Jalen Johnson at 14 after seeing his play in summer league, or would you still have taken Moody?
Good question. But I think I’d take Moody. I’m no great talent evaluator, but there was something about Johnson in Summer League that seemed off. Even with the great numbers.

But what do I know?


Moody looks like a guy that can come in from day 1 and fill a role as a versatile 3nD guard off the bench. The only other guy like that is OPJ but he's more of a bigger forward than a guard defender. There's some overlap with Lee and JTA but Lee is less of a defender than Moody I imagine and JTA is less of a shooter.

So I like how Moody fits with us better than Jalen Johnson would given that there's overlap between Jalen and Kuminga.

Also, I really like what Moody has to say. He's a really bright and mature young man that I think will be able to easily pick up Kerr's scheme. I don't get that impression from Jalen. I think he's got a year on the bench and in the G-league in his future.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#363 » by Mac1958 » Thu Aug 26, 2021 4:09 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:So I like how Moody fits with us better than Jalen Johnson would given that there's overlap between Jalen and Kuminga.

Yeah, that choice had to be one or the other.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#364 » by Ilovethebay » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:01 pm

This kid has some serious physical gifts. I'm curious though why most seem unconcerned by his shooting percentages. Lamelo Ball took a beaten on this board for his shooting but so far everyone seems to ignore Kuminga's. What gives?
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#365 » by GQ Hot Dog » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:20 pm

Ilovethebay wrote:This kid has some serious physical gifts. I'm curious though why most seem unconcerned by his shooting percentages. Lamelo Ball took a beaten on this board for his shooting but so far everyone seems to ignore Kuminga's. What gives?


They play different positions and are much different athletes. Kuminga is a premiere run/jump athlete who figures to be most valuable to us around the bucket, moving and slashing without the ball, at least initially. He can still give us value while developing his shooting.

Lamelo is a guy who needs the ball in his hands to make any impact on the game. So if he's an inefficient shooter we're probably not improving by putting the ball in his hands. That's not a concern with Kuminga.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#366 » by Badly Browned » Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:40 pm

RichmondWarrior wrote:Would you guys have taken Jalen Johnson at 14 after seeing his play in summer league, or would you still have taken Moody?


Hard to see them take Jalen when they already had Kuminga at 7.

Of the guys that were available at 14, I would've gone Moody, Sengun, then Trey before Jalen.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#367 » by Twinkie defense » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:25 am

shazam_guy wrote:I haven't heard "disinterested on defense" about Kuminga and haven't seen it. And "needs to try harder"? That's like the opposite of Kuminga's game -- he's all energy. And to the last point, neither Kuminga or Davion Mitchell have proved a single thing yet in the NBA, which is what we're talking about. Kuminga didn't go to college, so there's no point of comparison before Summer League, and in SL Mitchell looked like exactly what everyone said -- a good low-ceiling player, very good on-ball defender, okay point guard and shooter.

I was paraphrasing. For example, here from The Athletic's 2021 NBA Draft Guide:
Weaknesses
Kuminga is not a good defender right now. It’s all tools with some spectacular highlights. No possession-by-possession consistency. His approach was bad in the G League. Not enough consistency in his stance, and he often decided not to lock in. A lot of standing around when on the ball, where he thought his defensive tools would allow him to chase down and recover to contest. Some lazy lunging and reaching as opposed to staying solid in his stance and in position. Doesn’t know how to navigate ball screens. Really avoided contact on a lot of them and died on the vine. Also, was a bad off-ball defender. Falls asleep way too often. Still not really understanding how and when to read guys coming off screens away from the ball. Those two factors led to a lot of bad closeouts. He needs to play with better balance across the board, and defense is an example.

Those are big red flags for me. Just like you can't teach height, I don't think you can teach want-to and drive. A will to win. A refusal to be defeated. On defense is where you tell how bad guys want to win. And those are the translatable traits that I really value and that Mitchell has in spades.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#368 » by FNQ » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:28 am

Twinkie defense wrote:
shazam_guy wrote:I haven't heard "disinterested on defense" about Kuminga and haven't seen it. And "needs to try harder"? That's like the opposite of Kuminga's game -- he's all energy. And to the last point, neither Kuminga or Davion Mitchell have proved a single thing yet in the NBA, which is what we're talking about. Kuminga didn't go to college, so there's no point of comparison before Summer League, and in SL Mitchell looked like exactly what everyone said -- a good low-ceiling player, very good on-ball defender, okay point guard and shooter.

I was paraphrasing. For example, here from The Athletic's 2021 NBA Draft Guide:
Weaknesses
Kuminga is not a good defender right now. It’s all tools with some spectacular highlights. No possession-by-possession consistency. His approach was bad in the G League. Not enough consistency in his stance, and he often decided not to lock in. A lot of standing around when on the ball, where he thought his defensive tools would allow him to chase down and recover to contest. Some lazy lunging and reaching as opposed to staying solid in his stance and in position. Doesn’t know how to navigate ball screens. Really avoided contact on a lot of them and died on the vine. Also, was a bad off-ball defender. Falls asleep way too often. Still not really understanding how and when to read guys coming off screens away from the ball. Those two factors led to a lot of bad closeouts. He needs to play with better balance across the board, and defense is an example.

Those are big red flags for me. Just like you can't teach height, I don't think you can teach want-to and drive. A will to win. A refusal to be defeated. On defense is where you tell how bad guys want to win. And those are the translatable traits that I really value and that Mitchell has in spades.



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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#369 » by Twinkie defense » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:31 am

GunnerWRX wrote:Mitchell is already 22. Kuminga has 4 years to learn before he is 22. No guarantee that he won't be a bust, but a 4 year difference is quite a lot especially for an athlete from 18 to 22.

Absolutely - that's what I mean by taking a flier on potential. Kuminga has crazy tools, but you just don't know what you will get out of them. Is he Giannis Antetokounmpo or Anthony Randolph? I would feel better about the pick if reports were that Kuminga was raw but he's working harder than anyone in the building, instead of he has great tools but seems disinterested.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#370 » by Twinkie defense » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:33 am

FNQ wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:Would anyone here be willing to trade Kuminga for Jalen Johnson or Davion Mitchell?


Wouldnt for both of them

JJ's problems are mental, and lets see how he does with any bit of NBA adversity before buying stock

Mitchell is a small PG and while he should be a fine player, presents a huge fit problem

No thanks

Poole is kinda a huge fit problem too, don't you think? But he looks like he will work out. Mitchell defends much bigger than his size, and I bet you will see Sacramento roll out three-guard lineups, which seem very effective in the League these days, given the modern rules - Houston for example was very effective with their three-guard lineups.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#371 » by Twinkie defense » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:34 am

FNQ wrote:Kuminga slides into the Paschall role pretty nicely.

Smallball five?
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#372 » by Twinkie defense » Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:38 am

FNQ wrote:Really wish Steph wanted to win

That's ridiculous. Unlike Kuminga, Steph never had the natural tools. Hopefully Kuminga will work as hard as Steph does, and be as dedicated to his craft as Steph is.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#373 » by GunnerWRX » Fri Aug 27, 2021 2:07 am

Twinkie defense wrote:I would feel better about the pick if reports were that Kuminga was raw but he's working harder than anyone in the building, instead of he has great tools but seems disinterested.


From everything I've read, Kuminga is a hard worker. Why do you think he doesn't work hard?

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/moses-moody-evaluates-jonathan-kumingas-summer-league-performance

"Another thing, off the floor we have similar mentalities," Moody said. "Just loving the workout, loving to get better. A lot of the times when you're on a team, there are a lot of guys and you might be the only one wanting to get those extra shots up. You never know. But he's one of the guys like me so it's fun being around him."
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#374 » by FNQ » Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:00 am

Twinkie defense wrote:Poole is kinda a huge fit problem too, don't you think? But he looks like he will work out. Mitchell defends much bigger than his size, and I bet you will see Sacramento roll out three-guard lineups, which seem very effective in the League these days, given the modern rules - Houston for example was very effective with their three-guard lineups.


Poole is the backup Curry. That fits extremely well.

Where does Mitchell fit? We have Curry, Klay and Poole as pure guards. You have Wiggins also taking guard minutes. And at the time Mulder, Lee, Payton, Jessup, and Nico were all options. You can play a 3 guard unit a little bit, but whats the long term play here? We take an undersized PG at 7 with the hopes that he becomes the 4th guard, maybe 3rd?

Twinkie defense wrote:
FNQ wrote:Kuminga slides into the Paschall role pretty nicely.

Smallball five?


Dont care what position you call it. Role is more important, and he takes over the isolation scoring role on the bench mob


Twinkie defense wrote:
FNQ wrote:Really wish Steph wanted to win

That's ridiculous. Unlike Kuminga, Steph never had the natural tools. Hopefully Kuminga will work as hard as Steph does, and be as dedicated to his craft as Steph is.


I think the Athletic write up is ridiculous to be honest. Kuminga has little team D experience but he looked very good in SL, and questioning the effort doesnt line up. Those GLeague games were horrible to watch, as the only player who actually thrived was Green, and that was just relative to everyone else. No one looked good on defense there because there was no system, and there was no hiding weaknesses like college teams do for their players
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#375 » by michaelm » Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:41 am

floppymoose wrote:The Warriors lost the 2016 finals because a <100% Steph Curry could not shake off Kevin Love at the 3-point line. If Curry had been fully healthy, game over.

Also,the Warriors were AT the 2016 finals because they drafted Curry, and because they did not trade Curry in some kind of win-now effort.

Agreed, although the Cavaliers discarded 15th man playing finals minutes with the game on the line at that stage in his career wasn't helpful imo.

I boarded the GSW train with Bogut, but well recognised his limitations post the multiple injuries. He could be sent to the bench by a game plan as the Cavs did in the 2015 finals, but I don't think a game plan involving getting to the rim at will as they did in the decisive games of the 2016 finals would have been an option even for LeBron and Kyrie had he not gone down.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#376 » by thunderdunk » Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:36 pm

Exactly. As soon as Bogut went out, the Dubs had nobody but Draymond at 5 to block a shot, grab a rebound, or even score the occasional put-back. Festus? Varejao? They totally sucked.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#377 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:14 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
shazam_guy wrote:I haven't heard "disinterested on defense" about Kuminga and haven't seen it. And "needs to try harder"? That's like the opposite of Kuminga's game -- he's all energy. And to the last point, neither Kuminga or Davion Mitchell have proved a single thing yet in the NBA, which is what we're talking about. Kuminga didn't go to college, so there's no point of comparison before Summer League, and in SL Mitchell looked like exactly what everyone said -- a good low-ceiling player, very good on-ball defender, okay point guard and shooter.

I was paraphrasing. For example, here from The Athletic's 2021 NBA Draft Guide:
Weaknesses
Kuminga is not a good defender right now. It’s all tools with some spectacular highlights. No possession-by-possession consistency. His approach was bad in the G League. Not enough consistency in his stance, and he often decided not to lock in. A lot of standing around when on the ball, where he thought his defensive tools would allow him to chase down and recover to contest. Some lazy lunging and reaching as opposed to staying solid in his stance and in position. Doesn’t know how to navigate ball screens. Really avoided contact on a lot of them and died on the vine. Also, was a bad off-ball defender. Falls asleep way too often. Still not really understanding how and when to read guys coming off screens away from the ball. Those two factors led to a lot of bad closeouts. He needs to play with better balance across the board, and defense is an example.

Those are big red flags for me. Just like you can't teach height, I don't think you can teach want-to and drive. A will to win. A refusal to be defeated. On defense is where you tell how bad guys want to win. And those are the translatable traits that I really value and that Mitchell has in spades.


Part of the long term issue with the G-League Ignite is that their goal is to sell their prospects so they don't do much coaching. The end result is that the players learn some bad habits, but it also means they have some artificially bad tape out there too.

Kuminga and Moody both showed progress even in the very limited coaching time available around SL. I don't think there is any reason to think they won't be contributing this year (at least in the regular season).
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#378 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:20 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
FNQ wrote:
SAKURABA216 wrote:Would anyone here be willing to trade Kuminga for Jalen Johnson or Davion Mitchell?


Wouldnt for both of them

JJ's problems are mental, and lets see how he does with any bit of NBA adversity before buying stock

Mitchell is a small PG and while he should be a fine player, presents a huge fit problem

No thanks

Poole is kinda a huge fit problem too, don't you think? But he looks like he will work out. Mitchell defends much bigger than his size, and I bet you will see Sacramento roll out three-guard lineups, which seem very effective in the League these days, given the modern rules - Houston for example was very effective with their three-guard lineups.


Think of Poole as Barbosa with better potential.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#379 » by GQ Hot Dog » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:42 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:Mitchell is already 22. Kuminga has 4 years to learn before he is 22. No guarantee that he won't be a bust, but a 4 year difference is quite a lot especially for an athlete from 18 to 22.

Absolutely - that's what I mean by taking a flier on potential. Kuminga has crazy tools, but you just don't know what you will get out of them. Is he Giannis Antetokounmpo or Anthony Randolph? I would feel better about the pick if reports were that Kuminga was raw but he's working harder than anyone in the building, instead of he has great tools but seems disinterested.


Regardless of what you read, Kuminga is so talented and showed so much in Vegas it's worth seeing what we have with him at least until the trade deadline, don't you think?
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#380 » by GunnerWRX » Sun Aug 29, 2021 12:45 am

Poole has a fit problem, wtf? Poole is the best "fit" backup since Kerr became the head coach. None of our backup guards moved off-ball like Steph and Klay - one of the reasons our bench offense stalled when Steph sat over the years.

Kerr tried to play Klay with the bench when Steph sat, which helped a bit. When KD was here, there wasn't a problem with offence because, well, we had Steph and KD.

Poole is the first backup guard who plays off-ball like Steph and Klay do, so we can play the same way and don't need to have Wanamaker etc to play guard in our motion offense.

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