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Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft

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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#401 » by Twinkie defense » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:47 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
you know what else is risky? possibly passing up elite blue chip young talent for a 23 year old 6-foot PG that can't shoot FTs.

He's a career 66% free throw shooter. But I guess a few summer league games are more indicative for you?

Ben Simmons is a career .597 free throw shooter and I would trade Kuminga for him today if we could.


lol...66% career FT supposed to be a good thing for a small guard?

Did I say it's good? No, free throw percentage is just not a top criterion for me when choosing a team - I go for team player, plays both sides, high IQ, can guard his position, proven track of winning, gives maximum effort. The reasons you stated for not taking Mitchell though are his size (he guards bigger and can dribble penetrate) and his free throw shooting - which seems a pretty lame criterion for drafting a player don't you think. Pretty far down the list of what you're looking for? Kuminga is a .625% free throw shooter, but that's not why I say he's a risky pick is it?

If you haven't watched Mitchell play much, have a look. He shuts guys down - see what he did to Bouknight and Payton Pritchard. I think he's going to be an All-NBA level defender, probably sooner rather than later. I think that's a very valuable skill.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#402 » by floppymoose » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:52 pm

and1GS wrote:Yeah I don't get the whole 'draft for immediate impact' thing if you're in the top 10. Always swing for the fences because the prospect ceiling lowers the deeper you get into the draft.

Yeah, if you want immediate impact, you should be trading your picks for established nba players. Otherwise, always BPA.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#403 » by Quazza » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:17 pm

clyde21 wrote:lmao @ people still talking about Mitchell...how anyone watched a 23 year old 6ft PG that shot 42% from the field in the SL while shooting 28% from the FT line and still thought, 'hey, maybe we should've taken this guy 7th overall' is mind bending

glad some of u are nowhere near the decision making process for this team


Did he seriously shoot 28% from the line??

My Sac buddy failed to mention that while rambling on about him after SL :lol:
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#404 » by ChuckDurn » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:55 pm

[*]
Quazza wrote:
clyde21 wrote:lmao @ people still talking about Mitchell...how anyone watched a 23 year old 6ft PG that shot 42% from the field in the SL while shooting 28% from the FT line and still thought, 'hey, maybe we should've taken this guy 7th overall' is mind bending

glad some of u are nowhere near the decision making process for this team


Did he seriously shoot 28% from the line??

My Sac buddy failed to mention that while rambling on about him after SL :lol:

Ultimate small sample size: he went 2-7, so yeah, it was 28%. He doesn’t get to the line hardly at all for a guard (sound familiar?), which continues a trend from his time in college. But I assume the greater point about his “career” 66% free throw percentage (odd to use the word “career” when referring to a rookie, and you’re only talking about his time in college) is that you use that as an indicator that he’s not going to be a 3-point marksman, despite the fact that he hit about 45% his last year at Baylor (after much lower percentages in previous years). Mitchell is basically being sold as a 3-and-D point guard, but if the 3 isn’t real (based on extrapolating his free throw percentage), then you have a real specialized guy.

At least that’s what I assume the point is.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#405 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Sep 1, 2021 1:06 am

Yes by career I meant his four-year college career.

I don't think anyone is selling Mitchell as a "3-and-D" guy, which weirdly has become the new way of plugging players into an easily-describable box that is usually reserved for wing players. It's like everyone has to fit into some predetermined box. He's a basketball player - he can pass, dribble, and penetrate and is shooting better - who looks like he will be an elite NBA defender.

I'm trying to figure out if people here think Mitchell is not an elite defender, or if they just don't value defense...
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#406 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:40 am

Twinkie defense wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:He's a career 66% free throw shooter. But I guess a few summer league games are more indicative for you?

Ben Simmons is a career .597 free throw shooter and I would trade Kuminga for him today if we could.


lol...66% career FT supposed to be a good thing for a small guard?

Did I say it's good? No, free throw percentage is just not a top criterion for me when choosing a team - I go for team player, plays both sides, high IQ, can guard his position, proven track of winning, gives maximum effort. The reasons you stated for not taking Mitchell though are his size (he guards bigger and can dribble penetrate) and his free throw shooting - which seems a pretty lame criterion for drafting a player don't you think. Pretty far down the list of what you're looking for? Kuminga is a .625% free throw shooter, but that's not why I say he's a risky pick is it?

If you haven't watched Mitchell play much, have a look. He shuts guys down - see what he did to Bouknight and Payton Pritchard. I think he's going to be an All-NBA level defender, probably sooner rather than later. I think that's a very valuable skill.


there is so much wrong with your post I don't even know where to start.

1) a poor FT% for a dude like Kuminga vs. a 6 ft PG like Mitchell isn't the same thing, these two things aren't equivalent...the fact that you don't seem to understand why this is an issue for a guard specifically who's touted as a shooter as opposed to Kuminga makes me question your bball knowledge overall.

2) no one is saying Mitchell isn't a good defender...thankfully being a good defender isn't the only requisite to being taken 7th overall. you can grab good defenders all over the draft. but there are other variables that dictate how high a defender should go.

3) perimeter point-of-attack defense is probably THE most overrated aspect of defense. team defense, paint defense, rim protection, switchability, etc. is muchhhhh more important than locking down a dude like Payton **** Pritchard.

4) FT% is one of the best indicators of college-to-NBA shooting trajectory, and it's a connective tissue that allows players, especially guards, to be able to stay on the court because if I know my guy can get to the line and hit his FTs, I'm gonna keep him on the court.

5) the fact that you're still suggesting we should've taken Mitchell 7th overall is hysterical...and again, i'm glad people like you are as far away from the FO as possible with these garbage takes.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#407 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:42 am

Twinkie defense wrote:Yes by career I meant his four-year college career.

I don't think anyone is selling Mitchell as a "3-and-D" guy, which weirdly has become the new way of plugging players into an easily-describable box that is usually reserved for wing players. It's like everyone has to fit into some predetermined box. He's a basketball player - he can pass, dribble, and penetrate and is shooting better - who looks like he will be an elite NBA defender.

I'm trying to figure out if people here think Mitchell is not an elite defender, or if they just don't value defense...


people are well aware of his defense, they are just not willing to overlook his other shortcomings to take a 6 foot 23-year-old PG 7th overall. :roll:
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#408 » by GQ Hot Dog » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:34 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
and1GS wrote:Yeah I don't get the whole 'draft for immediate impact' thing if you're in the top 10. Always swing for the fences because the prospect ceiling lowers the deeper you get into the draft.

That's why over the history of the League so many seven-footers who can't play have been drafted ahead of guards and wings who were ballers. I don't like it - show me the tape.

But I'm not really talking about immediate impact, I'm talking about proven talent vs. high ceiling with some question marks. Maybe the draft gurus are wrong. Maybe Kuminga will prove them wrong. But one thing that's a red flag for me is doesn't try hard, disinterested. Gimme a less naturally gifted Draymond Green type player who has a track of winning and who hates to lose, every day.


I wouldn't want to draft anyone that was described as "doesn't try hard, disinterested." But that was never said about Kuminga so I'm not sure why you're mentioning him in the same breath.

As for Kuminga's tape, every bit of his Ignite footage showed me this guy was a baller. He wanted the ball in his hands, he was a confident ball handler and play maker that always had his head up looking for passes. The criticism of Kuminga(other than shooting % and shot selection) was that he had a penchant for reckless passes. That's a flaw I don't mind and will be turned into a strength in Kerr's scheme.

If your disappointment at the Warriors drafting Kuminga over a more proven player like Mitchell stems from the scouting reports you've read, then read less scouting reports and watch the tape yourself because his tape was nothing but encouraging.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#409 » by The-Power » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:01 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:I go for team player, plays both sides, high IQ, can guard his position, proven track of winning, gives maximum effort.

Then shouldn't you just be happy with GPII? Or just advocate for Beverley who isn't sought after by NBA teams. You don't need the 7th pick in the draft in his Rookie year to find such a player.

floppymoose wrote:Yeah, if you want immediate impact, you should be trading your picks for established nba players.

This. If we wanted to maximize winning this year, we should and would have traded our pick – because I hope nobody believes that Mitchell is going to be as good in his Rookie season as a vet you can get for such a high pick.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#410 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:04 pm

[/quote]5) the fact that you're still suggesting we should've taken Mitchell 7th overall is hysterical...and again, i'm glad people like you are as far away from the FO as possible with these garbage takes.[/quote]
I'm glad you're not in the front office with your garbage free throw obsession.

There were multiple people in the Warriors front office who were pushing for Mitchell.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#411 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:05 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:I wouldn't want to draft anyone that was described as "doesn't try hard, disinterested." But that was never said about Kuminga so I'm not sure why you're mentioning him in the same breath.

Read the scouting reports - that's what they say. I quoted extensively from The Athletic draft report earlier in this thread.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#412 » by Twinkie defense » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:12 pm

The-Power wrote:
Twinkie defense wrote:I go for team player, plays both sides, high IQ, can guard his position, proven track of winning, gives maximum effort.

Then shouldn't you just be happy with GPII? Or just advocate for Beverley who isn't sought after by NBA teams. You don't need the 7th pick in the draft in his Rookie year to find such a player.

floppymoose wrote:Yeah, if you want immediate impact, you should be trading your picks for established nba players.

This. If we wanted to maximize winning this year, we should and would have traded our pick – because I hope nobody believes that Mitchell is going to be as good in his Rookie season as a vet you can get for such a high pick.

I like GPII a lot but obviously he is a more limited player, who went undrafted. Patrick Beverly was just traded for by Minnesota.

Again I never mentioned immediate impact - the risk with Kuminga is not that he will take a while to be a star it is that his potential will be unrealized and we won't have a good player to show for #7.

People are such funny fan boys on this Warriors forum. We drafted Kuminga so people want to act like he's a guaranteed star. Same thing last season, people were so high on Wiseman, and now already calling him a bust.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#413 » by GQ Hot Dog » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:31 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:I wouldn't want to draft anyone that was described as "doesn't try hard, disinterested." But that was never said about Kuminga so I'm not sure why you're mentioning him in the same breath.

Read the scouting reports - that's what they say. I quoted extensively from The Athletic draft report earlier in this thread.


Why are you putting any faith in The Athletic? Just watch him.

I haven't heard anyone say "doesn't try hard, disinterested" with him including anything said on The Athletic. On defense they said he's inconsistent, and has poor technique. I've never heard anyone question his drive or effort level.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#414 » by GQ Hot Dog » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:36 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:People are such funny fan boys on this Warriors forum. We drafted Kuminga so people want to act like he's a guaranteed star. Same thing last season, people were so high on Wiseman, and now already calling him a bust.


Totally unfair. My big board since prior to the draft was:

Cade
Mobley
Green
Suggs
Kuminga
Williams
Moody

If we got one of the above at pick #7 I would be happy. IMO, everyone else in the draft came after.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#415 » by Mob Byers » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:38 pm

I'd take Jevon Carter over Davion Mitchell, quote me on that
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#416 » by The-Power » Wed Sep 1, 2021 7:54 pm

Twinkie defense wrote:I like GPII a lot but obviously he is a more limited player, who went undrafted. Patrick Beverly was just traded for by Minnesota.

What makes today's GPII a ‘much more limited player’? He played better in G-League than Mitchell did in SL. And Beverley could be had fo cheap – much cheaper than the 7th pick. That was the entire point.

Twinkie defense wrote:Again I never mentioned immediate impact - the risk with Kuminga is not that he will take a while to be a star it is that his potential will be unrealized and we won't have a good player to show for #7.

You take risks at 7. Again, that's the point. The idea that you can pick a Rookie to increase your chances to win now is not backed up by history. That's why potential is key, and that's why Kuminga was a better pick. Also, if you believe that Kuminga in four years (when he's Mitchell's age) isn't going to be an NBA player in some shape or form barring a career-threatening injury, I'm not sure the debate is worth continuing. If you don't believe that, then what are we even talking about? Because we don't even know if Mitchell is going to be a good NBA player – that's also just projection on your part.

Twinkie defense wrote:People are such funny fan boys on this Warriors forum. We drafted Kuminga so people want to act like he's a guaranteed star. Same thing last season, people were so high on Wiseman, and now already calling him a bust.

This is the kind of argument you only use when you don't have any real arguments left.

As for myself, I never acted like Kuminga is a guaranteed star nor did I label Wiseman a bust after being high on him. I was also much lower on Mitchell than I was on Kuminga pre-draft, so nothing changed here either. Hence, if you're responding to me specifically, I'd appreciate a post without such baseless insinuations – and, generally, I'd suggest you skip the hyperbolic generalizations next time. I'm sure you're better than this.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#417 » by shazam_guy » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:32 pm

Yes, some people are calling Wiseman a bust. But to my mind, those are generally less reliable voices, because they seem to live in a sped-up version of time where a 19 year old who has played little beyond high school ball is supposed to walk into the NBA without summer league or training camp and crush everyone immediately. Failure to do that apparently equals "bust".

We'll hear from the same people, I have no doubt, when Kuminga throws his first downcourt pass completely over someone's head and into the seats, or draws a couple of painful charges by being out of control. "We wasted our pick! He's hopeless!" But will they still be talking about either player that way two years from now? I'll still be here. We'll see if the rookie-haters, especially those who would have emptied the cupboards of Wiggins and all the young guys for Ben Simmons or Pascal Siakam are still around.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#418 » by sjballer03 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 11:12 pm

The rookie haters are just guys who think this is fantasy or 2k. I wonder if any of those guys who make such lopsided trades for a ben Simmons or Pascal in dynasty leagues. And now there's a contingent of rookie haters that think drafting older rookies is a better choice simply because they "might" contribute immediately. Pretty silly logic if you ask me :roll:
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#419 » by Onus » Wed Sep 1, 2021 11:16 pm

Have to remember this is the same fanbase that had nicknames klayups and gq statpad. We’re (generally) obviously going to hate on kuminga as well at some point.
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Re: Warriors select Jonathan Kuminga with the 7th pick of the 2021 NBA Draft 

Post#420 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:13 pm

Onus wrote:Have to remember this is the same fanbase that had nicknames klayups and gq statpad. We’re (generally) obviously going to hate on kuminga as well at some point.


Wouldn't mind the edginess if made any sense

Klay, a guy most had tabbed as a Korver type, was getting to the rim extremely well but was having trouble finishing. Those people wanted him to stop driving altogether, and would have kneecapped a great player

Same people didnt like Steph's showboating of his elite handles.. elite handles that he didnt have when he stepped into the league.

Draymond does everything well but shoot and keep his temper... booooo

Iguodala chose not to score all the time in the regular season.... trade him!

Poole had a bad rookie season where he was a top scoring option in one of the weirdest seasons ever... bust

If there was logic behind these things, thats cool, but its often just reactionary and nonsensical BS
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