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Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?)

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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#281 » by Crazy-Canuck » Sun Aug 22, 2021 4:32 pm

Minnesota could have been running a

Lamelo
Beasley
Wiggs
Kuminga
Kat

Starting unit if not for that dlo trade.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#282 » by whatisacenter » Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:05 am

Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.

Keep an eye on Detroit and Memphis. Both teams have too many guaranteed contracts. They need to fix that. Sources say Grizzlies small forwards Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson are available for the right price. The Pistons are expected to look at dumping either Jahlil Okafor or 2019 No. 15 pick Sekou Doumbouya

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#283 » by GQ Hot Dog » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:42 am

whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.

Keep an eye on Detroit and Memphis. Both teams have too many guaranteed contracts. They need to fix that. Sources say Grizzlies small forwards Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson are available for the right price. The Pistons are expected to look at dumping either Jahlil Okafor or 2019 No. 15 pick Sekou Doumbouya

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


I don't know why they would want to move either when they have dead weight like Rondo and Hernangomez. Also, we have no sensible way to match salaries for either Brooks or Anderson.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#284 » by ChuckDurn » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:11 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.

Keep an eye on Detroit and Memphis. Both teams have too many guaranteed contracts. They need to fix that. Sources say Grizzlies small forwards Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson are available for the right price. The Pistons are expected to look at dumping either Jahlil Okafor or 2019 No. 15 pick Sekou Doumbouya

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


I don't know why they would want to move either when they have dead weight like Rondo and Hernangomez. Also, we have no sensible way to match salaries for either Brooks or Anderson.

Yep. No meaningful way to acquire Brooks or Anderson without making a much bigger, messier trade.

I expect Memphis will try to keep Hernangomez, but do think they'll dispense with Rondo, one way or the other.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#285 » by S-Gorilla86 » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:37 pm

ChuckDurn wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.


https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


I don't know why they would want to move either when they have dead weight like Rondo and Hernangomez. Also, we have no sensible way to match salaries for either Brooks or Anderson.

Yep. No meaningful way to acquire Brooks or Anderson without making a much bigger, messier trade.

I expect Memphis will try to keep Hernangomez, but do think they'll dispense with Rondo, one way or the other.
Agreed, no dice for the Warriors. I think those guys are available if they can consolidate talent, but they're not getting traded for future assets to clear roster space. I'm interested to see the moves the Grizz will make though.

As for Rondo, I think he gets bought out. The only teams that would be interested in him are playoff contenders that wont be able to trade anything valuable/match salary. And with the roster crunch it will be difficult to keep him around for a future trade like Iguodala.

I wonder if he is bought out, would the Warriors use a part of the TPMLE to sign him? I highly doubt they would use the full thing though, its just too much $

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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#286 » by GQ Hot Dog » Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:55 pm

S-Gorilla86 wrote:
ChuckDurn wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
I don't know why they would want to move either when they have dead weight like Rondo and Hernangomez. Also, we have no sensible way to match salaries for either Brooks or Anderson.

Yep. No meaningful way to acquire Brooks or Anderson without making a much bigger, messier trade.

I expect Memphis will try to keep Hernangomez, but do think they'll dispense with Rondo, one way or the other.
Agreed, no dice for the Warriors. I think those guys are available if they can consolidate talent, but they're not getting traded for future assets to clear roster space. I'm interested to see the moves the Grizz will make though.

As for Rondo, I think he gets bought out. The only teams that would be interested in him are playoff contenders that wont be able to trade anything valuable/match salary. And with the roster crunch it will be difficult to keep him around for a future trade like Iguodala.

I wonder if he is bought out, would the Warriors use a part of the TPMLE to sign him? I highly doubt they would use the full thing though, its just too much $

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It seems crazy to me that Brooks would be shopped around. That guy was getting TNT post game invites after playoff wins. He's their Draymond and they're trying to move him? I don't buy it.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#287 » by The-Power » Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:23 am

GQ Hot Dog wrote:It seems crazy to me that Brooks would be shopped around. That guy was getting TNT post game invites after playoff wins. He's their Draymond and they're trying to move him? I don't buy it.

Except that he chucks up shots like he's Steph Curry (leading to terrible efficiency) and there's no evidence that he's any kind of defensive anchor. I can easily see them moving on from him and why wouldn't they? I just can't see how any team would be willing to give up meaningful value for him.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#288 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 1:55 pm

The-Power wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:It seems crazy to me that Brooks would be shopped around. That guy was getting TNT post game invites after playoff wins. He's their Draymond and they're trying to move him? I don't buy it.

Except that he chucks up shots like he's Steph Curry (leading to terrible efficiency) and there's no evidence that he's any kind of defensive anchor. I can easily see them moving on from him and why wouldn't they? I just can't see how any team would be willing to give up meaningful value for him.


He chucks up shots because they don't have any shooters or scorers. They desperately need Ja to improve his shot, JJJ to finally be healthy and Ziaire Williams to hit the ground running as an NBA level scorer. If those things happen it will organically reduce his attempts and then his energy and defense will be what stands out.

The guy is objectively an excellent defender. He forced Steph into 14 turnovers in 2 games last season. Can you call a guy limited to defending guards on ball a "defensive anchor"? More today than ever before but the reason Draymond is an anchor is because he not only defends all over the court, both on ball and in help, he's also the guy telling everyone else what to do.

His value, particularly as the heart and fire of their team is undeniable. I mean, you're not going to replace Brooks with Desmond Bane what with those pathetic alligator arms he's sporting.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#289 » by The-Power » Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:41 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:He chucks up shots because they don't have any shooters or scorers.

He chucks up a lot of shots because that's who he is and what he wants to do. He's always going to gravitate towards that if you don't put a stop to it.

GQ Hot Dog wrote:The guy is objectively an excellent defender. He forced Steph into 14 turnovers in 2 games last season. Can you call a guy limited to defending guards on ball a "defensive anchor"? More today than ever before but the reason Draymond is an anchor is because he not only defends all over the court, both on ball and in help, he's also the guy telling everyone else what to do.

His value, particularly as the heart and fire of their team is undeniable. I mean, you're not going to replace Brooks with Desmond Bane what with those pathetic alligator arms he's sporting.

He's an active defender but also limited and I don't see evidence of him being a high-impact guy (what does ‘objectively’ in this context even mean?). Funny you also mention Bane's ‘pathetic alligator arms’ when Brooks himself only has a 6'6'' wingspan.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#290 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:13 pm

The-Power wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:He chucks up shots because they don't have any shooters or scorers.

He chucks up a lot of shots because that's who he is and what he wants to do. He's always going to gravitate towards that if you don't put a stop to it.

GQ Hot Dog wrote:The guy is objectively an excellent defender. He forced Steph into 14 turnovers in 2 games last season. Can you call a guy limited to defending guards on ball a "defensive anchor"? More today than ever before but the reason Draymond is an anchor is because he not only defends all over the court, both on ball and in help, he's also the guy telling everyone else what to do.

His value, particularly as the heart and fire of their team is undeniable. I mean, you're not going to replace Brooks with Desmond Bane what with those pathetic alligator arms he's sporting.

He's an active defender but also limited and I don't see evidence of him being a high-impact guy (what does ‘objectively’ in this context even mean?). Funny you also mention Bane's ‘pathetic alligator arms’ when Brooks himself only has a 6'6'' wingspan.


He chucks up shots because they had no better options. You can't credibly say otherwise until they have better options. Someone has to take those shots.

Kyle Anderson has no business starting, he's a decent versatile offensive player but he can't handle any additional scoring responsibility which is the first reason Brooks took so many shots last year. JJJ finally needs to become the scorer Memphis thinks he can be and because he was hurt all year is the second reason Brooks took so many shots. If JJJ doesn't break out they're going to take a step back because while I have a lot of faith in Ziaire I don't think he's ready to carry the scoring load as a rookie.

Brooks is 6'6 with a 6'6 wingspan. Bane is 6'5 with a 6'4 wingspan. It's not nothing and until Bane can make life hard on some of the best ball handling guards in the game Brooks' talents will continue to contribute to wins just like last season.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#291 » by parsnips33 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:32 pm

whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.

Keep an eye on Detroit and Memphis. Both teams have too many guaranteed contracts. They need to fix that. Sources say Grizzlies small forwards Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson are available for the right price. The Pistons are expected to look at dumping either Jahlil Okafor or 2019 No. 15 pick Sekou Doumbouya

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


Would it be possible to break Wiggins up into these guys? How many draft picks would we have to add?
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#292 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:58 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.

Keep an eye on Detroit and Memphis. Both teams have too many guaranteed contracts. They need to fix that. Sources say Grizzlies small forwards Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson are available for the right price. The Pistons are expected to look at dumping either Jahlil Okafor or 2019 No. 15 pick Sekou Doumbouya

https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


Would it be possible to break Wiggins up into these guys? How many draft picks would we have to add?


Why would we want to do that? We don't need to break a buck up into two .50 pieces. Not least of which because we don't have the roster spots. With our 3 youngsters and the 3 vets we signed our depth is good and could become even better. And who would be guarding Lebron, KD and PG?
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#293 » by parsnips33 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:11 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:
whatisacenter wrote:Dillon Brooks and Kyle Anderson may be available.


https://hoopshype.com/storyline/dillon-brooks-trade/


Would it be possible to break Wiggins up into these guys? How many draft picks would we have to add?


Why would we want to do that? We don't need to break a buck up into two .50 pieces. Not least of which because we don't have the roster spots. With our 3 youngsters and the 3 vets we signed our depth is good and could become even better. And who would be guarding Lebron, KD and PG?


I just think Wiggins is a lot of money tied up in one rotation player. Just Max Contracts and rookies/vet minimums is workable strategy if all your max contracts are star players. We know for sure Wiggins isn't a star, and unfortunately post-injury Klay is a question mark.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#294 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:25 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:
Would it be possible to break Wiggins up into these guys? How many draft picks would we have to add?


Why would we want to do that? We don't need to break a buck up into two .50 pieces. Not least of which because we don't have the roster spots. With our 3 youngsters and the 3 vets we signed our depth is good and could become even better. And who would be guarding Lebron, KD and PG?


I just think Wiggins is a lot of money tied up in one rotation player. Just Max Contracts and rookies/vet minimums is workable strategy if all your max contracts are star players. We know for sure Wiggins isn't a star, and unfortunately post-injury Klay is a question mark.


Despite being paid like a star and not quite a star, he's still a much better player than either Brooks or Anderson. Better shooter than both, better scorer than both, better defender than both although Brooks is good. It's a trade you might make if you're a small market team that needs depth just to make the playoffs. I would prefer the FO is bets on Wiggins taking another step with the addition of Klay reducing his usage and as he's entering his prime.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#295 » by parsnips33 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:39 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
Why would we want to do that? We don't need to break a buck up into two .50 pieces. Not least of which because we don't have the roster spots. With our 3 youngsters and the 3 vets we signed our depth is good and could become even better. And who would be guarding Lebron, KD and PG?


I just think Wiggins is a lot of money tied up in one rotation player. Just Max Contracts and rookies/vet minimums is workable strategy if all your max contracts are star players. We know for sure Wiggins isn't a star, and unfortunately post-injury Klay is a question mark.


Despite being paid like a star and not quite a star, he's still a much better player than either Brooks or Anderson. Better shooter than both, better scorer than both, better defender than both although Brooks is good. It's a trade you might make if you're a small market team that needs depth just to make the playoffs. I would prefer the FO is bets on Wiggins taking another step with the addition of Klay reducing his usage and as he's entering his prime.


Agree Wiggins is better than either guy. Still, I think there's a benefit to having multiple solid guys on a midsized contracts. Gives us flexibility from a team building perspective and just more good players to fill the rotation with. We already have a star duo in Steph and Dray, so just filling up the rest of the minutes to solid contributors who have a net-positive impact should be a path to contention
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#296 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:05 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
GQ Hot Dog wrote:
parsnips33 wrote:
I just think Wiggins is a lot of money tied up in one rotation player. Just Max Contracts and rookies/vet minimums is workable strategy if all your max contracts are star players. We know for sure Wiggins isn't a star, and unfortunately post-injury Klay is a question mark.


Despite being paid like a star and not quite a star, he's still a much better player than either Brooks or Anderson. Better shooter than both, better scorer than both, better defender than both although Brooks is good. It's a trade you might make if you're a small market team that needs depth just to make the playoffs. I would prefer the FO is bets on Wiggins taking another step with the addition of Klay reducing his usage and as he's entering his prime.


Agree Wiggins is better than either guy. Still, I think there's a benefit to having multiple solid guys on a midsized contracts. Gives us flexibility from a team building perspective and just more good players to fill the rotation with. We already have a star duo in Steph and Dray, so just filling up the rest of the minutes to solid contributors who have a net-positive impact should be a path to contention


It's a fair perspective but I think betting that Wiggins can take another step is more ambitious from a personnel standpoint and that's my preference.

Last season Wiggins scored 19 ppg with percentages of 48/38/71 and usage of 23.3.

In Harrison Barnes' last season with us he scored 12 ppg with percentages of 47/38/76 and usage of 15.9.

If Wiggins' usage drops 4-5% with the addition of Klay and that translates to a bump in efficiency where he becomes a 50/40 player + the excellent defense(maybe better with reduced usage on offense) he will be worth his contract.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#297 » by GSWFan1994 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:42 pm

Kyle Anderson would be amazing in our system.

However, we don't have the right chips to trade for him, IMO. We have either much more valuable players, or our young players are not worth this trade, IMO.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#298 » by wco81 » Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:22 pm

He doesn't shoot that well does it?

Does he defend well? Good size and versatility but I don't see anything special there.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#299 » by GQ Hot Dog » Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:16 pm

wco81 wrote:He doesn't shoot that well does it?

Does he defend well? Good size and versatility but I don't see anything special there.


He does a lot of things decently. Probably the only thing he does well is pass.
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Re: Trade Thread (EPISODE VII: Which team wants our bad players for their good players?) 

Post#300 » by The-Power » Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:17 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:He chucks up shots because they had no better options. You can't credibly say otherwise until they have better options. Someone has to take those shots.

You make an entirely unsubstantiated claim and essentially continue with ‘and you cannot prove me wrong’.

You continue to write that lack of other scorers is why he basically has to take so many shots and there is just no substance to it. Let's be very clear: Brooks is an inefficient scorer. Inefficient scorers don't put up 24 FGA per 100 possessions unless they constantly look to score. Heck, the Grizzlies even had other players who scored as much as or more than him at higher efficiency – he's not playing with G-League scoring talent, there is zero argument for that.

What is more, only 5% of his FGAs are very late in the shot clock (0-4 seconds) and 7% late in the shot clock (4-7 seconds). In contrast, close to 70% of his shots are in the average and early shot clock range and his efficiency is poor in those instances and not notably different from late-clock situations. If he wasn't an inefficient chucker who only takes shots because he has to, he wouldn't put up most of his shots at poor efficiency when there is still plenty of time to work for a better shot.

Lastly, Brooks had a 31.6 USG% in his last year in college. You don't just stumble into this kind of usage unless you are actively trying.

Note that this is not to say that in different settings, Brooks usage can't be lower and he can't be more efficient. As I wrote, you can tell him not to shoot as much and maybe that works to some extent. That doesn't change, however, that Brooks just naturally gravitates towards high-volume shooting despite not being capable of achieving even NBA average efficiency. It's who he is, and I have certainly substantiated that claim a lot better than you have substantiated yours (while you, at the same time, argue that any claim contrary to yours has no credibility – which is quite ironic, to be honest, because if anything one could point out that your claim has no credibility until and unless he plays next to better options and actually changes his approach).

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