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Simmons yes or no

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Which Warriors team do you want to watch the next two to three years

Simmons and better chance at chip sooner - no brainer you nab the star player
15
21%
Competitive Warriors watching Wiseman and Kuminga develop - deeper team and longer term hopes
56
79%
 
Total votes: 71

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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#101 » by Mob Byers » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:43 pm

I've upgraded my acceptable offer to Wiggins + 3 unprotected picks


Even if Simmons never shot the ball he'd be FILTHY here. The league would hate us even more.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#102 » by SpreeChokeJob » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:45 pm

Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:
Even with the above proposed trade, who is the third scoring option after Curry and Thompson in the starting lineup?

Wiseman?

Green?

Also, if Simmons moves to the center position and Green plays power forward, who would play small forward? Porter? Kuminga?


Here’s how I see it, Green has to move to the bench.

Before Klay:
Curry Poole
Jta Iguodala moody
Porter lee
Simmons green kuminga
Looney bjelica wiseman

After Klay:
Curry Poole
Thompson jta moody
Porter lee Iguodala
Simmons green kuminga
Looney wiseman bjelica


I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#103 » by Mob Byers » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:48 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Here’s how I see it, Green has to move to the bench.

Before Klay:
Curry Poole
Jta Iguodala moody
Porter lee
Simmons green kuminga
Looney bjelica wiseman

After Klay:
Curry Poole
Thompson jta moody
Porter lee Iguodala
Simmons green kuminga
Looney wiseman bjelica


I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.

You're starting Looney over Green....
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#104 » by xdrta+ » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:50 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Here’s how I see it, Green has to move to the bench.


Barring injury, I'd say there is no chance of that happening. Green and Curry are too valuable together. And Simmons may be a great defender, but can he quarterback the defense like Draymond does? That's not something you pick up in a single training camp.


I’m not really for the deal. But with JTA and Looney in the first unit there is enough IQ to cover for defense along with Simmons talent.

As to the Green and Curry combo, Simmons is supposedly a point forward so he should be available to deliver or why bring him here. My contingency plan is to have Curry Green close the game if the Warriors bought damaged goods.


Re: Curry and Green, I think you're underrating the experience factor. After years of playing together, Green knows exactly where Curry will end up most of the time, and delivers the ball sometimes before he's even there. Regardless, if they bring in Simmons, they have to have a plan for Green and him to play together. Green really wouldn't have much value coming off the bench.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#105 » by Outside » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:51 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Here’s how I see it, Green has to move to the bench.

Before Klay:
Curry Poole
Jta Iguodala moody
Porter lee
Simmons green kuminga
Looney bjelica wiseman

After Klay:
Curry Poole
Thompson jta moody
Porter lee Iguodala
Simmons green kuminga
Looney wiseman bjelica


I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.


Then say they can't coexist and therefore a Simmons trade makes no sense. Actually entertaining the idea of moving Draymond to the bench is laughable.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#106 » by SpreeChokeJob » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:55 pm

Mob Byers wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Outside wrote:
I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.

You're starting Looney over Green....


Figured they need some additional length otherwise it’s just Simmons out there with height that can go after the rebounds.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#107 » by SpreeChokeJob » Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:58 pm

Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Outside wrote:
I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.


Then say they can't coexist and therefore a Simmons trade makes no sense. Actually entertaining the idea of moving Draymond to the bench is laughable.


I’m okay with no trade. It seems more trouble than it’s worth. If Simmons was a complete player, fit wouldn’t be an issue. Yet the rumor mill has it the Warriors are still engaged in talks and I hope we don’t trade away any picks for a non fit player.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#108 » by WarriorGM » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
Outside wrote:
I come back to this thread every couple of days for the entertainment value.


I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.


Then say they can't coexist and therefore a Simmons trade makes no sense. Actually entertaining the idea of moving Draymond to the bench is laughable.


Is moving Draymond to the bench really a laughable idea? Draymond is going to be 31, the same age as Iguodala was in 2015 when he ostensibly moved to the bench.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#109 » by HiRez » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:14 pm

Mob Byers wrote:Even if Simmons never shot the ball he'd be FILTHY here. The league would hate us even more.

Indeed. The gaslighting on Simmons has reached a hilarious level in here. People treating him like he's a bigger overpaid scrub than Adam Morrison, Darko Milicic, and Kwame Brown. Come on man, yes he has issues and yes, he had a bad playoff run, but the dude is ELITE in multiple categories. Not good, elite. I like Wiggins, but is he elite at anything? No. Simmons doesn't have to be the "do it all" guy here. This is a team built on synergies and his court vision and flexibility on defense would benefit the team tremendously.

I would definitely wait until his price gets low enough we're not mortgaging our whole future, or walk away. But to outright dismiss Simmons as this unplayable, lazy, entitled, cancerous scrub, is ridiculous. Even Wiggins didn't receive this kind of vitriol when he was widely regarded as one of the biggest busts and worst contracts of all time. And I don't see any NBA All-Defensive first team awards on Wiggins' resume, Simmons has 2 of those BTW.

ps. Not in favor of the idea of moving Draymond to the bench though, at least not at this point.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#110 » by cdubbz » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:29 pm

Wiggins, Damion Lee, Mulder, 2022 FRP. THATS IT
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#111 » by and1GS » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:38 pm

I actually think Ben could be good for us in the Bogut role with Draymond still starting. Elbow creator. Lob finisher. High IQ guy that does stuff here and there but will get played out of some series - while being instrumental in others.

You'd also be neutering some stuff that makes him special - namely drive and dish. We'd also be asking a PG to basically play the 5. And at that point, with a $30m+ player, what are we even doing? At least with Wiggins we know we get spacing, floor spreading and good team basketball. The ceiling is lower, sure, but the floor is way higher in the playoffs.

And that's what I always come back to - what are we even doing with this sort of trade? Does Ben want to play the 5? If not, do we really want him playing the 1? I'm not opposed to a deal..but anything beyond Wiggins and a couple firsts is too much for me to swallow. Heck, even Wiggins/Wiseman/2 firsts is too rich for my blood.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#112 » by Ilovethebay » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:42 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Barring injury, I'd say there is no chance of that happening. Green and Curry are too valuable together. And Simmons may be a great defender, but can he quarterback the defense like Draymond does? That's not something you pick up in a single training camp.


I’m not really for the deal. But with JTA and Looney in the first unit there is enough IQ to cover for defense along with Simmons talent.

As to the Green and Curry combo, Simmons is supposedly a point forward so he should be available to deliver or why bring him here. My contingency plan is to have Curry Green close the game if the Warriors bought damaged goods.


Re: Curry and Green, I think you're underrating the experience factor. After years of playing together, Green knows exactly where Curry will end up most of the time, and delivers the ball sometimes before he's even there. Regardless, if they bring in Simmons, they have to have a plan for Green and him to play together. Green really wouldn't have much value coming off the bench.

Glad to see some are coming around on this idea. Green going to the bench is not the move. I really think Simmons would make everyone (Curry, Klay, and Green especially) better. Draymond misses out on a lot of "hockey assists" because Wiggins and Oubre either don't see what's there or they aren't capable of making the kind of pass needed.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#113 » by Ilovethebay » Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:43 pm

cdubbz wrote:Wiggins, Damion Lee, Mulder, 2022 FRP. THATS IT

:lol:
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#114 » by Outside » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:03 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
Outside wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
I don’t see any way they can coexist unless the Warriors are building a house... with bricks.


Then say they can't coexist and therefore a Simmons trade makes no sense. Actually entertaining the idea of moving Draymond to the bench is laughable.


Is moving Draymond to the bench really a laughable idea? Draymond is going to be 31, the same age as Iguodala was in 2015 when he ostensibly moved to the bench.


Yes, it's laughable. Draymond was third in DPOY voting, first team all-defense, led the team in assists, steals, and rebounds, and has great synergy with Steph and Klay. You don't move that to the bench to make room for a guy who does much of the same but is even less of shooter and doesn't have synergy with Steph and Klay.

What's the purpose of giving away assets to get a guy who you are basically saying is unplayable with Draymond? So you're giving away assets AND benching Draymond because you're giving priority to Simmons? Feel free to explain how that makes sense.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#115 » by HiRez » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:12 pm

I just fundamentally reject this idea that it's impossible to play Draymond and Simmons at the same time (even assuming neither starts taking & making more shots). We have Steph, arguably the greatest shooter of all time, and we're getting Klay back, an all-time great bomber. Who's the other guy? Who knows. Maybe it's Porter one day and Kuminga the next and Moody the day after that, and then it's Poole. Maybe all of the above in one game. But you're adding (in Simmons) an elite passer and a guy who, himself, is highly efficient working around the rim and on the break. If Simmons isn't doing the passing, Draymond's going to have a lot of options.

But having said that, I think there would be a lot of splitting Draymond and Simmons between starters and bench, and even the other starters will be blended. There's 48 minutes in the game and there's a lot of flexibility on this roster to mix and match slots. The other nice thing about Simmons is he gives you a legit backup PG in case of Steph injury, we don't really have that now.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#116 » by Phase 3 » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:13 pm

Why not just go after Siakim? Better fit with Draymond and someone that isn’t afraid to shoot.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#117 » by WarriorGM » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:21 pm

Outside wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
Outside wrote:
Then say they can't coexist and therefore a Simmons trade makes no sense. Actually entertaining the idea of moving Draymond to the bench is laughable.


Is moving Draymond to the bench really a laughable idea? Draymond is going to be 31, the same age as Iguodala was in 2015 when he ostensibly moved to the bench.


Yes, it's laughable. Draymond was third in DPOY voting, first team all-defense, led the team in assists, steals, and rebounds, and has great synergy with Steph and Klay. You don't move that to the bench to make room for a guy who does much of the same but is even less of shooter and doesn't have synergy with Steph and Klay.

What's the purpose of giving away assets to get a guy who you are basically saying is unplayable with Draymond? So you're giving away assets AND benching Draymond because you're giving priority to Simmons? Feel free to explain how that makes sense.


Iguodala.

Phase 3 wrote:Why not just go after Siakim? Better fit with Draymond and someone that isn’t afraid to shoot.


Not the same level of playmaker. Previously I kept seeing concern being expressed of Draymond regressing and here Simmons is a terrific potential Draymond understudy.

I've also in the past expressed my belief that the hole left by Iguodala was in the near term the biggest need on the team. I cannot think of a better replacement from the next generation of players that fits the same profile than Simmons.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#118 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:33 pm

Simmons is definitely a peculiar fit with Draymond, but people are going waaaaaay overboard with devaluing him. Even in his current state, he brings a lot to the table. I wouldn't give up a *ton* to get him, because there is risk that the fit won't work out. But at the right price, it almost has to be worth finding out. Maybe it means starting him at center. Maybe it means starting him at the 3 and getting a center that can really shoot. Even if it doesn't work out, he likely has more value in trade than Wiggins today. And none of this even entertains the possibility that he improves. If he improves his shot and/or works through whatever mental issues may be limiting him right now, he suddenly is a *huge* improvement.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#119 » by Mob Byers » Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:36 pm

and1GS wrote:I actually think Ben could be good for us in the Bogut role with Draymond still starting. Elbow creator. Lob finisher. High IQ guy that does stuff here and there but will get played out of some series - while being instrumental in others.

You'd also be neutering some stuff that makes him special - namely drive and dish. We'd also be asking a PG to basically play the 5. And at that point, with a $30m+ player, what are we even doing? At least with Wiggins we know we get spacing, floor spreading and good team basketball. The ceiling is lower, sure, but the floor is way higher in the playoffs.

And that's what I always come back to - what are we even doing with this sort of trade? Does Ben want to play the 5? If not, do we really want him playing the 1? I'm not opposed to a deal..but anything beyond Wiggins and a couple firsts is too much for me to swallow. Heck, even Wiggins/Wiseman/2 firsts is too rich for my blood.


We would become a more versatile team by getting a terrific playmaker (that we have lacked since Livingston/Andre left, 2 non-shooters) and elite defender in Ben. You can pretty much play him 1-5. He can run point on offense and defend the 5. He can play the 5 on offense and defend the 2. He can play the 3 and defend the 1. Etc Etc

And just a side note "feeling": I think if anyone can help him with his jumper and gain confidence it would be the Warriors.

My point is, it doesn't matter where you try to fit him in, he's one of the best playmakers and defenders in the league. I'm on the same boat as you though, Wiggins and a few first ****maybe a few swaps as well. It'd be a complete no brainer. Having to attach any of our young guys, outside of the rights to Jessup (lol), is a no-go for me.

I was pretty anti-Ben a few days ago, but if you can get him at low value like this = complete no brainer

I think that's the problem though, Morey is probably still asking too much.

You have to think one of the other teams interested can come up with something better than Wiggins/picks but maybe not.
Would the Kings actually give up Fox?
What are the Spurs offering? Murray or White + picks/prospects?
What about the Twolves? Doubt it's DLo, so maybe Beasley and a handful of guys?

Keep having this gut feeling that the Spurs come up with the better offer out of all teams interested. But maybe not given they seem to be in rebuild mode.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#120 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:14 pm

HiRez wrote:I just fundamentally reject this idea that it's impossible to play Draymond and Simmons at the same time (even assuming neither starts taking & making more shots). We have Steph, arguably the greatest shooter of all time, and we're getting Klay back, an all-time great bomber. Who's the other guy? Who knows. Maybe it's Porter one day and Kuminga the next and Moody the day after that, and then it's Poole. Maybe all of the above in one game. But you're adding (in Simmons) an elite passer and a guy who, himself, is highly efficient working around the rim and on the break. If Simmons isn't doing the passing, Draymond's going to have a lot of options.

But having said that, I think there would be a lot of splitting Draymond and Simmons between starters and bench, and even the other starters will be blended. There's 48 minutes in the game and there's a lot of flexibility on this roster to mix and match slots. The other nice thing about Simmons is he gives you a legit backup PG in case of Steph injury, we don't really have that now.

This.

He’s (Simmons) a Swiss Army knife. He can legitimately play any role on the offense, and if you start him next to Curry, Klay, and Draymond, it almost doesn’t matter who the 5th starter is, that’s going to be a dangerous group. Pack it in, and Curry or Klay will kill you. Guard them tight, and Simmons can drive to the hoop with abandon. Imagine Porter - who has shot 44% on catch-and-shoot 3’s for his career - getting 8 open looks a night, because opponents have to guard both close to the hoop (for Simmons) and stretched to Curry and Klay? Good night. That’s a nightmare for the defense, especially how the roster is constructed with additional + shooters (Bjelica, Poole, and likely Lee and Moody). It’s inconceivable to me that people are worried about having a second non-spacing big guy in the starting line-up, when we were deadly last year at the end of the year with Looney running next to Draymond, and not a whole lot next to Curry on the perimeter.

And defensively, nobody is really going to want to have to deal with Draymond and SImmons together. Literally 2 DPOY candidates, who are able to guard bigs and smalls, along with guys like Klay, Porter, Looney, and other smart guys around them?

I’ve talked myself into it, as long as the price isn’t more than Wiggins + 1 young player + 1 draft pick.
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