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Simmons yes or no

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Which Warriors team do you want to watch the next two to three years

Simmons and better chance at chip sooner - no brainer you nab the star player
15
21%
Competitive Warriors watching Wiseman and Kuminga develop - deeper team and longer term hopes
56
79%
 
Total votes: 71

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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#141 » by sonnyhill » Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:00 pm

shazam_guy wrote:Back to the original question: How much future are you willing to trade away for a player, however great he COULD be, who is broken now? Seems like it's a lot of the same people (not you, HiRez) who complained that we couldn't develop players who are so certain we should bring in Simmons (and, presumably, "fix" him).


Great question.

Assuming Simmons can only attain marginal improvement in his free throw shooting over the next few seasons, but still has a below-the-bar outside shot and mid-range shot, would he be an improvement over Wiggins at small forward?

Assuming Simmons can only attain marginal improvement in his free throw shooting over the next few seasons, but still has a below-the-bar outside shot and mid-range shot, would he be an improvement over Green at power forward?

Assuming Simmons can only attain marginal improvement in his free throw shooting over the next few seasons, but still has a below-the-bar outside shot and mid-range shot, would he be an improvement over Looney at center?

Also, is it the combination of Simmons being paired with Embiid which has (Please Use More Appropriate Word) Simmons's development; the Sixers organization (front office and coaching), itself; Simmons, himself, not working hard enough on improving the deficiencies in his game; or a combination of multiple factors?

I would love to see Simmons on the Warriors paired with Green in the frontcourt; however, the team would be missing a small forward/wing (assuming that Wiggins would be part of a trade to acquire Simmons).

Even if the Warriors were to be able to trade Green (and perhaps Poole and a future #1) for Simmons, an obvious improvement, statistically, as well as another infusion of youth, for the team at power forward; how would this move affect Curry?
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#142 » by Quazza » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:07 am

ILOVEIT wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:
Re: Curry and Green, I think you're underrating the experience factor. After years of playing together, Green knows exactly where Curry will end up most of the time, and delivers the ball sometimes before he's even there. Regardless, if they bring in Simmons, they have to have a plan for Green and him to play together. Green really wouldn't have much value coming off the bench.


For me the Warriors the past recipe to the championship is through having three great shooters(Curry,Klay,KD) or 2 great shooters and 2 average ones(Curry,Klay, and Barnes or Iguodala or Green)

If they play Green and Simmons together, it means the opposing team will just guard Steph,Klay, and the key.

In strength in numbers, there were four guys who could shoot, so they could count on someone being open. Sometime it worked, Iguodala and other times it didn’t, Barnes. Now with two non shooters, the third guy will be left open a lot less.

I don’t see it working out with two non shooters on the starters. It just cuts down the real estate the defense has to cover and puts more pressure on the third guy as there is no fourth shooter and Steph, Klay will be covered. The opposing defense will try to force them off the three and try to funnel everything into the key taking away Curry, Klay, and Simmons offensive strengths away.

Since this team doesn’t have KD, and Klay is not fully recovered, a fourth above average shooter who can play defense will have to emerge for championship aspirations if they go with Kerr’s system.


Honestly every time I type out something and I'm sure of my choice (Simmons or not) I'm confused by the end of it lol.
Simmons is a dominant presence on the floor...no doubt. Curry, Klay, Simmons, Draymond would be explosive and the turnovers and defensive created by Draymond and Simmons would have them running it back all regular season.
And IF they had the third dominant scorer....maybe Poole starting and arriving at that level....then having Draymond and Simmons feast defensively and taking turns feeding the splash bros....nice.

But there is this nagging worry about Simmon's cancerous effect on the chemistry of this team :(

[b]Think of Spreewell back in the day...how he poisoned the team. Would Simmons be Spree and Wiseman be Joe Smith?[/b]

Bottom line for me: If I had evidence that Simmons was a motivated team leader and character guy....I'd want him on the team. With out that I'm still just not sure.


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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#143 » by giberish » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:50 am

I'd do Wiggins for Simmons straight up.

But while Simmons has a major talent advantage he's also a massive fit downgrade. The straight up trade is worth it hoping to overcome fit with talent but adding significant extra really isn't.

I also see too much of Josh Smith in Simmons' development curve. Plateau in the early 20's when skill and experience development should be leading to significant improvement. Then in his later 20's when athletic decline should be offset by continued skill improvement he just declined. So I don't see the upside worth gambling big on.

Of course Philly would want more then just Wiggins and they should look for another team to find it. Somewhat ironically, while Simmons (or someone claiming to speak for him) talked of going to 3 California teams it's the team he probably doesn't even know is in the state that makes the best fit.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#144 » by NeoWarriors » Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pm

I'm not against trading Wiggins and a cache of future pics to pick up Ben Simmons. I'm already attached to the new kids so they can't trade them.

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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#145 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:14 pm

NeoWarriors wrote:I'm not against trading Wiggins and a cache of future pics to pick up Ben Simmons. I'm already attached to the new kids so they can't trade them.

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Why pay so much for a broken player who actually costs more money?
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#146 » by FNQ » Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:36 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
NeoWarriors wrote:I'm not against trading Wiggins and a cache of future pics to pick up Ben Simmons. I'm already attached to the new kids so they can't trade them.

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Why pay so much for a broken player who actually costs more money?


The Lakers and Clippers have had the opportunity and there's absolutely no rumors coming from LA. The only teams that have shown active interest (according to the rags) are us, Kings, Pacers and Wolves. And I'd be willing to bet our name is only being thrown around because we're a win-now team that has some nice future assets and still has most of our picks facing forward

But really, the astronomical price of Simmons is why the 76ers will likely have to keep him. Morey botched this by having the ridiculous price, because it either is going to price everyone out, or he'll look especially weak when the actual price happens, because Simmons' value is not going up as this saga continues, its going down. He must be thanking his lucky stars that perpetual bad decision makers like the Kings and Wolves have jumped in on this
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#147 » by Old_Blue » Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:30 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
NeoWarriors wrote:I'm not against trading Wiggins and a cache of future pics to pick up Ben Simmons. I'm already attached to the new kids so they can't trade them.

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Why pay so much for a broken player who actually costs more money?


Not just a little more either. Simmons has about $80 million more in guaranteed money. In comparison, Wiggins seems like a bargain.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#148 » by whatisacenter » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:36 pm

Read on Twitter


Ben wants to go to GS, Lakers or Clipps. I have felt for a while that Ben will end up on the Warriors and I am not sure how I feel about it. If they do end up trading for him I hope they don't give up too much.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#149 » by Money_ » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:38 pm

I want nothing to do with him or his inflated contract. Completely trade away our future for a broken player that by all reports is a prima donna that doesn't think he needs to work on his game. That would be a big desperate move by our front office, and if it doesn't pay off but some of our youth does on another team... big flop.
Both in a basketball sense and financially, with an even more top heavy contract situation.

This is a "don't trade Klay for Kevin Love" moment. Where is Jerry West when you need him?

I see him going to Minny, maybe Sac. 76ers will send him to the biggest spenders not where he wants to go.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#150 » by Mob Byers » Tue Aug 31, 2021 11:53 pm

Wiggins for Simmons, Maxey, 2024 1st top 12 protected :lol:
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#151 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Sep 1, 2021 12:19 am

Money_ wrote:I want nothing to do with him or his inflated contract. Completely trade away our future for a broken player that by all reports is a prima donna that doesn't think he needs to work on his game. That would be a big desperate move by our front office, and if it doesn't pay off but some of our youth does on another team... big flop.
Both in a basketball sense and financially, with an even more top heavy contract situation.

This is a "don't trade Klay for Kevin Love" moment. Where is Jerry West when you need him?

I see him going to Minny, maybe Sac. 76ers will send him to the biggest spenders not where he wants to go.

Pretty sure the reason Simmons hasn’t been traded to the Warriors already is because Myers isn’t willing to trade away the future (at least “all” of it). I suspect we’ve set a price that we won’t go beyond, and it’s probably something like Wiggins + 1 of WIseman or Kuminga + a future #1.

I likewise think Minnesota and Sacramento are the 2 most likely destinations. Both have good young assets under team control and future draft assets, and can make the money work. I personally think Sacramento is the better partner, given their current roster construction and need - a deal of Fox for Simmons works financially, the question is what picks would go which way….. and the Kings fielding a line-up of Mitchell/Haliburton/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes, with Hield coming off the bench, would be much better than their current construction which is too guard-heavy and still will struggle defensively (even with the addition of Mitchell).
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#152 » by cdubbz » Wed Sep 1, 2021 1:35 am

I like Wiggins ability to score when Steph and Klay aren’t in the game and be a threat when they are in the game.

I do like Ben Simmons to be the point guard when Steph is out and Ben being the playmaker with Splash bros off ball.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#153 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:34 am

If simmons is past the point of no return, im fully expecting embiid to push for wiggins.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#154 » by Chupchup » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:35 am

Who do we have to give up is the question. Wiggins and future picks? Ok maybe. Wiggins and Wiseman Ok Maybe too. But we're not going to give up everyone plus picks etc.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#155 » by bballguy50 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 2:35 am

I love seeing Morey sweat after thinking he was a smart a** leaking offers and trying to pull wool over people’s eyes on Simmons’ value. Morey can’t play the hold out game unless he’s fine with alienating Embiid and ruining team chemistry as a whole. Not sure of CBA rules, but I seem to remember you can only hold out for a certain period of time before your contract is at risk?

Don’t want Simmons on this team. We’d be a great regular season team and crash in the playoffs.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#156 » by michaelm » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:20 am

    The only thing which might work is Simmons for Green imo, and even as a non shooter he is probably a better scorer than Draymond these days, but Draymond is the heart and soul of this team, such a move might not please Curry and Klay, and Ben Simmons seems to be the opposite of Green in terms of leadership and rising to the challenge/being clutch in big moments. It might be different with a better organisation than the Sixers next to all time great shooting talent but I probably wouldn’t do a straight up swap and neither will Morey I strongly suspect. I think his particularly poor performance in the recent play-offs was likely influenced by the reported family issues though.
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    Re: Simmons yes or no 

    Post#157 » by Brick Layer » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:30 am

    Chupchup wrote:Who do we have to give up is the question. Wiggins and future picks? Ok maybe. Wiggins and Wiseman Ok Maybe too. But we're not going to give up everyone plus picks etc.

    ChuckDurn wrote:
    Money_ wrote:I want nothing to do with him or his inflated contract. Completely trade away our future for a broken player that by all reports is a prima donna that doesn't think he needs to work on his game. That would be a big desperate move by our front office, and if it doesn't pay off but some of our youth does on another team... big flop.
    Both in a basketball sense and financially, with an even more top heavy contract situation.

    This is a "don't trade Klay for Kevin Love" moment. Where is Jerry West when you need him?

    I see him going to Minny, maybe Sac. 76ers will send him to the biggest spenders not where he wants to go.

    Pretty sure the reason Simmons hasn’t been traded to the Warriors already is because Myers isn’t willing to trade away the future (at least “all” of it). I suspect we’ve set a price that we won’t go beyond, and it’s probably something like Wiggins + 1 of WIseman or Kuminga + a future #1.

    We have at least 12 posters on this board who think it would be an absolutely brilliant idea for the Warriors to give Morey anything the 76ers want including accepting the pre-draft offer from the 76ers that required the Warriors to trade James Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, 2021 draft picks #7 and #14 plus two future unprotected first-round picks which was at least 200% over Simmons' actual trade value. If GSW is one of only 3 teams Simmons wants to be traded to why are we not lowballing the 76ers after Simons' trade demands and holdout threats have gone public giving the 76ers literally zero trade leverage? Is either LA team making great offers? Right now Simmons for Wiggins straight up is an overpay for GSW who isn't the team that's caught between a rock and a hard place.
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    Re: Simmons yes or no 

    Post#158 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:52 am

    Brick Layer wrote:
    Chupchup wrote:Who do we have to give up is the question. Wiggins and future picks? Ok maybe. Wiggins and Wiseman Ok Maybe too. But we're not going to give up everyone plus picks etc.

    ChuckDurn wrote:
    Money_ wrote:I want nothing to do with him or his inflated contract. Completely trade away our future for a broken player that by all reports is a prima donna that doesn't think he needs to work on his game. That would be a big desperate move by our front office, and if it doesn't pay off but some of our youth does on another team... big flop.
    Both in a basketball sense and financially, with an even more top heavy contract situation.

    This is a "don't trade Klay for Kevin Love" moment. Where is Jerry West when you need him?

    I see him going to Minny, maybe Sac. 76ers will send him to the biggest spenders not where he wants to go.

    Pretty sure the reason Simmons hasn’t been traded to the Warriors already is because Myers isn’t willing to trade away the future (at least “all” of it). I suspect we’ve set a price that we won’t go beyond, and it’s probably something like Wiggins + 1 of WIseman or Kuminga + a future #1.

    We have at least 12 posters on this board who think it would be an absolutely brilliant idea for the Warriors to give Morey anything the 76ers want including accepting the pre-draft offer from the 76ers that required the Warriors to trade James Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, 2021 draft picks #7 and #14 plus two future unprotected first-round picks which was at least 200% over Simmons' actual trade value. If GSW is one of only 3 teams Simmons wants to be traded to why are we not lowballing the 76ers after Simons' trade demands and holdout threats have gone public giving the 76ers literally zero trade leverage? Is either LA team making great offers? Right now Simmons for Wiggins straight up is an overpay for GSW who isn't the team that's caught between a rock and a hard place.

    Just because Simmons wants to go to one of 3 California teams, it doesn’t mean those are the only teams he would play for.

    I think it boils down to “I won’t play for Philadelphia; I will play for 29 other teams; but I’d prefer to be traded to these 3.”

    He’s only going to sit out in 1 situation, the situation he’s pissed off at. And there’s any number of teams not amongst his 3 preferred who will make offers for him. Minnesota definitely wants him, other teams do as well, and their offers will be WAAAAAY more than offering Wiggins (who is still viewed as a bad contract, though not as bad as it was just a year ago).

    I’m amongst the group that isn’t overly concerned about the approximately 15 minutes/game that Simmons and Draymond may be on the court together, considering that we’ve already demonstrated that having another non-spacer with Draymond (e.g. Looney, Bogut) doesn’t prevent us from being an elite offense. And defensively we’d be a nightmare for teams with 2 ridiculously versatile DPOY candidates in the frontcourt.

    I understand those who don’t think Simmons would fit, I just disagree. But I guarantee that if he gets traded (to anybody), it’s for a package at least as valuable as what I suggested.

    (Oh, and note that if the Warriors made the deal I suggested, I’d have no problem making that first-rounder be the 2022 1st-round pick, unprotected, because I think at worst the Warriors would have a top-6 record in the league, so that pick would be a very late 1st-rounder, which is a crapshoot. And that’s how you do a run-on sentence.)
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    Re: Simmons yes or no 

    Post#159 » by a8bil » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:55 am

    Wiggins and Poole and future unprotected #1 for Simmons.
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    Re: Simmons yes or no 

    Post#160 » by Brick Layer » Wed Sep 1, 2021 4:10 am

    ChuckDurn wrote:
    Brick Layer wrote:
    Chupchup wrote:Who do we have to give up is the question. Wiggins and future picks? Ok maybe. Wiggins and Wiseman Ok Maybe too. But we're not going to give up everyone plus picks etc.

    ChuckDurn wrote:Pretty sure the reason Simmons hasn’t been traded to the Warriors already is because Myers isn’t willing to trade away the future (at least “all” of it). I suspect we’ve set a price that we won’t go beyond, and it’s probably something like Wiggins + 1 of WIseman or Kuminga + a future #1.

    We have at least 12 posters on this board who think it would be an absolutely brilliant idea for the Warriors to give Morey anything the 76ers want including accepting the pre-draft offer from the 76ers that required the Warriors to trade James Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, 2021 draft picks #7 and #14 plus two future unprotected first-round picks. That was at least 200% over Simmons' actual trade value. If GSW is one of only 3 teams Simmons wants to be traded to why are we not lowballing the 76ers after Simons' trade demands and holdout threats have gone public giving the 76ers literally zero trade leverage? Is either LA team making great offers? Right now Simmons for Wiggins straight up is an overpay for GSW who isn't the team that's caught between a rock and a hard place.

    Just because Simmons wants to go to one of 3 California teams, it doesn’t mean those are the only teams he would play for.

    I think it boils down to “I won’t play for Philadelphia; I will play for 29 other teams; but I’d prefer to be traded to these 3.”

    He’s only going to sit out in 1 situation, the situation he’s pissed off at. And there’s any number of teams not amongst his 3 preferred who will make offers for him. Minnesota definitely wants him, other teams do as well, and their offers will be WAAAAAY more than offering Wiggins (who is still viewed as a bad contract, though not as bad as it was just a year ago).

    I’m amongst the group that isn’t overly concerned about the approximately 15 minutes/game that Simmons and Draymond may be on the court together, considering that we’ve already demonstrated that having another non-spacer with Draymond (e.g. Looney, Bogut) doesn’t prevent us from being an elite offense. And defensively we’d be a nightmare for teams with 2 ridiculously versatile DPOY candidates in the frontcourt.

    I understand those who don’t think Simmons would fit, I just disagree. But I guarantee that if he gets traded (to anybody), it’s for a package at least as valuable as what I suggested.

    (Oh, and note that if the Warriors made the deal I suggested, I’d have no problem making that first-rounder be the 2022 1st-round pick, unprotected, because I think at worst the Warriors would have a top-6 record in the league, so that pick would be a very late 1st-rounder, which is a crapshoot. And that’s how you do a run-on sentence.)

    Teams who are not on Simmons' preferred list of trade destinations will have real doubts about giving up significant assets if there is a possibility he will show his displeasure by not giving max effort the way James Harden dogged it in Houston. GM's who make ill advised trades often struggle to have long careers as successful NBA executives.

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