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Simmons yes or no

Moderators: floppymoose, Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair

Which Warriors team do you want to watch the next two to three years

Simmons and better chance at chip sooner - no brainer you nab the star player
15
21%
Competitive Warriors watching Wiseman and Kuminga develop - deeper team and longer term hopes
56
79%
 
Total votes: 71

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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#161 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Sep 1, 2021 4:19 am

Brick Layer wrote:
ChuckDurn wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:
We have at least 12 posters on this board who think it would be an absolutely brilliant idea for the Warriors to give Morey anything the 76ers want including accepting the pre-draft offer from the 76ers that required the Warriors to trade James Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, 2021 draft picks #7 and #14 plus two future unprotected first-round picks. That was at least 200% over Simmons' actual trade value. If GSW is one of only 3 teams Simmons wants to be traded to why are we not lowballing the 76ers after Simons' trade demands and holdout threats have gone public giving the 76ers literally zero trade leverage? Is either LA team making great offers? Right now Simmons for Wiggins straight up is an overpay for GSW who isn't the team that's caught between a rock and a hard place.

Just because Simmons wants to go to one of 3 California teams, it doesn’t mean those are the only teams he would play for.

I think it boils down to “I won’t play for Philadelphia; I will play for 29 other teams; but I’d prefer to be traded to these 3.”

He’s only going to sit out in 1 situation, the situation he’s pissed off at. And there’s any number of teams not amongst his 3 preferred who will make offers for him. Minnesota definitely wants him, other teams do as well, and their offers will be WAAAAAY more than offering Wiggins (who is still viewed as a bad contract, though not as bad as it was just a year ago).

I’m amongst the group that isn’t overly concerned about the approximately 15 minutes/game that Simmons and Draymond may be on the court together, considering that we’ve already demonstrated that having another non-spacer with Draymond (e.g. Looney, Bogut) doesn’t prevent us from being an elite offense. And defensively we’d be a nightmare for teams with 2 ridiculously versatile DPOY candidates in the frontcourt.

I understand those who don’t think Simmons would fit, I just disagree. But I guarantee that if he gets traded (to anybody), it’s for a package at least as valuable as what I suggested.

(Oh, and note that if the Warriors made the deal I suggested, I’d have no problem making that first-rounder be the 2022 1st-round pick, unprotected, because I think at worst the Warriors would have a top-6 record in the league, so that pick would be a very late 1st-rounder, which is a crapshoot. And that’s how you do a run-on sentence.)

Teams who are not on Simmons' preferred list of trade destinations will have real doubts about giving up significant assets if there is a possibility he will show his displeasure by not giving max effort the way James Harden dogged it in Houston. GM's who make ill advised trades often struggle to have long careers as successful NBA executives.

This is all just theory now.

If / when he’s traded, we’ll re-visit the value, okay?

Your contention is that Simmons will be traded for a solid starter (not an All-Star), with no additional high-level prospects or draft picks.

My contention is that Simmons will be traded for not only a solid starter, but also 2 good future assets (either high-level prospects or draft picks). As a note, the #1 draft pick I would include is Golden State’s #1 in 2022 (unprotected, which has to be the case because of our potential conveyance of the 2024 pick to Memphis).

Let’s just see who’s closer when it’s all said and done, okay?
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#162 » by FNQ » Wed Sep 1, 2021 5:44 am

Mob Byers wrote:Wiggins for Simmons, Maxey, 2024 1st top 12 protected :lol:


See this is where Morey's gonna hurt a team
He made this crazy ass minimum for what he'd take for Simmons early, and of course no one would give up multiple 1sts + a star player. So now he's adding value from his side so he can now get that return.. trading Maxey, who looked like a really solid rotation player as a rookie?

My guess is that Simmons goes to SAC, with Maxey, for Hield, a top 20 protected 1st in 2022, and a pick swap option in 2024. And maybe some interchangable smaller parts
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#163 » by Kuya » Wed Sep 1, 2021 6:25 am

Wiggins and Moody for Simmons and Seth
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#164 » by svart » Wed Sep 1, 2021 9:08 am

Again, Draymond needs to go if Simmons comes here. We don't have the money to keep them both, the luxury tax will be astronomical. For me trading Wiggins to keep bot Dray and Simmons makes no sense, salary wise and also i don't want'em both on the court at the same time. just my opinion.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#165 » by lars_rosenberg » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:35 am

It's hard to make salaries work with Draymond.
Simmons and Maxey combined make about 36 millions, Dray makes 24.
Simmons + Maxey for Dray + Looney would technically work, but Golden State would 6 more millions to their payroll, which seems to be too much to swallow in luxury tax.
Adding Wiseman would make things much easier on a salary standpoint, but I don't think GSW is ready to trade JW right now, when his value is at the minimum.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#166 » by Brick Layer » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:12 pm

ChuckDurn wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:
ChuckDurn wrote:Just because Simmons wants to go to one of 3 California teams, it doesn’t mean those are the only teams he would play for.

I think it boils down to “I won’t play for Philadelphia; I will play for 29 other teams; but I’d prefer to be traded to these 3.”

He’s only going to sit out in 1 situation, the situation he’s pissed off at. And there’s any number of teams not amongst his 3 preferred who will make offers for him. Minnesota definitely wants him, other teams do as well, and their offers will be WAAAAAY more than offering Wiggins (who is still viewed as a bad contract, though not as bad as it was just a year ago).

I’m amongst the group that isn’t overly concerned about the approximately 15 minutes/game that Simmons and Draymond may be on the court together, considering that we’ve already demonstrated that having another non-spacer with Draymond (e.g. Looney, Bogut) doesn’t prevent us from being an elite offense. And defensively we’d be a nightmare for teams with 2 ridiculously versatile DPOY candidates in the frontcourt.

I understand those who don’t think Simmons would fit, I just disagree. But I guarantee that if he gets traded (to anybody), it’s for a package at least as valuable as what I suggested.

(Oh, and note that if the Warriors made the deal I suggested, I’d have no problem making that first-rounder be the 2022 1st-round pick, unprotected, because I think at worst the Warriors would have a top-6 record in the league, so that pick would be a very late 1st-rounder, which is a crapshoot. And that’s how you do a run-on sentence.)

Teams who are not on Simmons' preferred list of trade destinations will have real doubts about giving up significant assets if there is a possibility he will show his displeasure by not giving max effort the way James Harden dogged it in Houston. GM's who make ill advised trades often struggle to have long careers as successful NBA executives.

This is all just theory now.

If / when he’s traded, we’ll re-visit the value, okay?

Your contention is that Simmons will be traded for a solid starter (not an All-Star), with no additional high-level prospects or draft picks.

My contention is that Simmons will be traded for not only a solid starter, but also 2 good future assets (either high-level prospects or draft picks). As a note, the #1 draft pick I would include is Golden State’s #1 in 2022 (unprotected, which has to be the case because of our potential conveyance of the 2024 pick to Memphis).

Let’s just see who’s closer when it’s all said and done, okay?

You totally and completely missed my message to you. Daryl Morey deliberately offered Ben Simmons predraft to NBA teams at prices that were at least 200% higher than his actual trade value. Morey expected these trade offers would be rejected. But his strategy was to get bidders to make their best offers upfront and then try to see how much higher the 76ers can get the other teams to go above their maximum offer. Now that Simmons has gone public with his trade demands and statement he will sit out until a trade is completed, the 76ers no longer hold any leverage trying to posture about waiting for a deal at their price. Waiting well into the season is not going to raise Simmons' trade value. So what I am saying is GSW should only make a low initial offer and not reveal just how far they are willing to increase offer. That should be the most basic negotiation strategy for any buyer.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#167 » by ChuckDurn » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:19 pm

Brick Layer wrote:
ChuckDurn wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:Teams who are not on Simmons' preferred list of trade destinations will have real doubts about giving up significant assets if there is a possibility he will show his displeasure by not giving max effort the way James Harden dogged it in Houston. GM's who make ill advised trades often struggle to have long careers as successful NBA executives.

This is all just theory now.

If / when he’s traded, we’ll re-visit the value, okay?

Your contention is that Simmons will be traded for a solid starter (not an All-Star), with no additional high-level prospects or draft picks.

My contention is that Simmons will be traded for not only a solid starter, but also 2 good future assets (either high-level prospects or draft picks). As a note, the #1 draft pick I would include is Golden State’s #1 in 2022 (unprotected, which has to be the case because of our potential conveyance of the 2024 pick to Memphis).

Let’s just see who’s closer when it’s all said and done, okay?

You totally and completely missed my message to you. Daryl Morey deliberately offered Ben Simmons predraft to NBA teams at prices that were at least 200% higher than his actual trade value. Morey expected these trade offers would be rejected. But his strategy was to get bidders to make their best offers upfront and then try to see how much higher the 76ers can get the other teams to go above their maximum offer. Now that Simmons has gone public with his trade demands and statement he will sit out until a trade is completed, the 76ers no longer hold any leverage trying to posture about waiting for a deal at their price. Waiting well into the season is not going to raise Simmons' trade value. So what I am saying is GSW should only make a low initial offer and not reveal just how far they are willing to increase offer. That should be the most basic negotiation strategy for any buyer.

Ah....... got it. Yep, I missed your point, thanks for clarifying. Though realistically, it's not that different in how any trade negotiations go, both sides won't come to the table with their best offer initially, they will always start on one end and then move off of it. But I think you're saying the difference is the magnitude right now, where one side (Morey) set an extreme position early, and now the other side (interested teams) can use Simmons' stance to set an extreme position on the other side. So they'll appear much farther away to start than a standard negotiation.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#168 » by Currygoat » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:25 pm

Only if the front office has the balls to trade Draymond or move him to the bench. But they don’t lmao
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#169 » by Brick Layer » Wed Sep 1, 2021 3:44 pm

ChuckDurn wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:
ChuckDurn wrote:This is all just theory now.

If / when he’s traded, we’ll re-visit the value, okay?

Your contention is that Simmons will be traded for a solid starter (not an All-Star), with no additional high-level prospects or draft picks.

My contention is that Simmons will be traded for not only a solid starter, but also 2 good future assets (either high-level prospects or draft picks). As a note, the #1 draft pick I would include is Golden State’s #1 in 2022 (unprotected, which has to be the case because of our potential conveyance of the 2024 pick to Memphis).

Let’s just see who’s closer when it’s all said and done, okay?

You totally and completely missed my message to you. Daryl Morey deliberately offered Ben Simmons predraft to NBA teams at prices that were at least 200% higher than his actual trade value. Morey expected these trade offers would be rejected. But his strategy was to get bidders to make their best offers upfront and then try to see how much higher the 76ers can get the other teams to go above their maximum offer. Now that Simmons has gone public with his trade demands and statement he will sit out until a trade is completed, the 76ers no longer hold any leverage trying to posture about waiting for a deal at their price. Waiting well into the season is not going to raise Simmons' trade value. So what I am saying is GSW should only make a low initial offer and not reveal just how far they are willing to increase offer. That should be the most basic negotiation strategy for any buyer.

Ah....... got it. Yep, I missed your point, thanks for clarifying. Though realistically, it's not that different in how any trade negotiations go, both sides won't come to the table with their best offer initially, they will always start on one end and then move off of it. But I think you're saying the difference is the magnitude right now, where one side (Morey) set an extreme position early, and now the other side (interested teams) can use Simmons' stance to set an extreme position on the other side. So they'll appear much farther away to start than a standard negotiation.

Bingo!
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#170 » by a8bil » Wed Sep 1, 2021 4:20 pm

Currygoat wrote:Only if the front office has the balls to trade Draymond or move him to the bench. But they don’t lmao
I think the KD interview was Dray's way of saying...go ahead and trade me if you need to. That said who wants to face Dray on another team in the playoffs?
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#171 » by GSWFan1994 » Wed Sep 1, 2021 5:31 pm

Needless to say, trading Draymond would be a huge mistake. Guy's the soul of this team, even with diminished performance.

I don't dislike Simmons, I just think he's not worth the headache.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#172 » by GunnerWRX » Wed Sep 1, 2021 5:45 pm

It is impossible to just give a yes/no answer. It is always about the cost and risk/reward. I will play.

Yes if if it's only Wiggins. At most + 2022 and/or 2023 pick swap.

Anything more is too much for a risky fixer upper like Simmons. We are fine as is keeping Wiggins + Wiseman + Kuminga + Moody.

Draymond? wtf is wrong with you people :nonono: I wouldn't even consider trading Draymond for Simmons + 4 first round picks. You are looking at a winner vs a mental midget.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#173 » by Brick Layer » Wed Sep 1, 2021 9:44 pm

shrink wrote:Hey. I thought some of you might like an update on Minnesota. The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski was on the local sports radio yesterday (1:11:20), and Baseline was nice enough to summarize what he had to say about the Simmons situation.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

I should probably mention Jonny K is a big Simmons fan, so while he’s plugged in, keep that in mind when evaluating this information.

I also wanted to add that for those putting Anthony Edwards in Wolves trade packages, Rosas went on the record when this whole thing began that KAT and Edwards were “off the table.” Things haven’t changed, and just a few days ago, Shams reinforced this.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#174 » by whatisacenter » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:10 pm

Brick Layer wrote:
shrink wrote:Hey. I thought some of you might like an update on Minnesota. The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski was on the local sports radio yesterday (1:11:20), and Baseline was nice enough to summarize what he had to say about the Simmons situation.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

I should probably mention Jonny K is a big Simmons fan, so while he’s plugged in, keep that in mind when evaluating this information.

I also wanted to add that for those putting Anthony Edwards in Wolves trade packages, Rosas went on the record when this whole thing began that KAT and Edwards were “off the table.” Things haven’t changed, and just a few days ago, Shams reinforced this.


not to mention that Edwards is a Klutch guy....
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#175 » by GQ Hot Dog » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:10 pm

Brick Layer wrote:
shrink wrote:Hey. I thought some of you might like an update on Minnesota. The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski was on the local sports radio yesterday (1:11:20), and Baseline was nice enough to summarize what he had to say about the Simmons situation.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

I should probably mention Jonny K is a big Simmons fan, so while he’s plugged in, keep that in mind when evaluating this information.

I also wanted to add that for those putting Anthony Edwards in Wolves trade packages, Rosas went on the record when this whole thing began that KAT and Edwards were “off the table.” Things haven’t changed, and just a few days ago, Shams reinforced this.


If the TWolves think Simmons is their Draymond I would love it. Those poor fans and their delusional, misguided FO. Add Simmons, subtract Beasley and Beverley and you have the softest, weakest willed group of "stars" in the league.

As though Simmons and Draymond are at all similar just because they both specialize in playing defense and passing.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#176 » by GSWFan1994 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 4:29 am

So the Wolves want Simmons, but they don't want to give up Towns, Edwards and possibly Russell. That's a joke, isn't it?

Russell is too little for Simmons. I'd ask for Edwards at minimum.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#177 » by GunnerWRX » Thu Sep 2, 2021 5:04 am

Brick Layer wrote:
shrink wrote:Hey. I thought some of you might like an update on Minnesota. The Athletic’s Jon Krawczynski was on the local sports radio yesterday (1:11:20), and Baseline was nice enough to summarize what he had to say about the Simmons situation.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-the-dan-barreiro-show-26981004/

- Anticipated the Simmons news today but did not know it would come this early
- Teams have been waiting for this to happen due to Morey's asking price
- When asked what his thoughts are on what the team might be willing to give up, starts by saying Towns and Edwards are off limit. Thinks the Wolves would prefer to keep Russell, but not a must. If it got to a point where the deal had to include Russell, he could see such a scenario happening. Otherwise, Beasley, McDaniels, Beverley and a bunch of picks.
- According to him and Shams Charania, not many teams at the table for Simmons right now
- Golden State not at the table as the Warriors like who they have in Kuminga and Wiseman
- Wolves see Simmons as Draymond Green, not as a PG
- Are the three max guys good enough to vault the team into contention (Simmons' attitude, Russell's ceiling, Towns' leadership). It's not a slam dunk, give up the farm type of scenario. But if you can back Morey into a corner the way the 76ers did the Wolves with Butler, you do that sort of package.
- Reason for wanting to keep Russell is because his shooting/scoring along with Towns and Edwards would allow Simmons to just play.
- His sources tell him Simmons is open to a Wolves move. But has yet to find out if he'd be willing to accept the role of PF.

I should probably mention Jonny K is a big Simmons fan, so while he’s plugged in, keep that in mind when evaluating this information.

I also wanted to add that for those putting Anthony Edwards in Wolves trade packages, Rosas went on the record when this whole thing began that KAT and Edwards were “off the table.” Things haven’t changed, and just a few days ago, Shams reinforced this.


If KAT and Edwards are off the table, I guess Wiggins is a better offer than D-Lo then? :lol:

Sixers fans seem to think they can get at least a CJ. Let's see.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#178 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Sep 2, 2021 5:30 am

DLO
Wiggins
Oubre

At the time of the trade, everyone had DLO as the better player and the wolves winning the trade. The front office may have felt the same, but they saw wiggins as the better fit and thus the better player for them.

Oubre was also seen as the better player by wiggins by some, but he simply had a tough time adjusting to the system even though he looked to be a fit. Oubre could shoot, drive, defend, and had size. but his passing, personality, and IQ were sorely overestimated. But it was a cheapish gamble asset-wise because it just took money.

Wiggins looked to be the worst player in the league and people still think of him as one of the top 5 draft busts of the last 20 years (General Board), but he has the skill set and personality to fit with the system and team. Yes hes still overpaid for what he does, but big 2 way wings are probably the most difficult to find right now.

which brings us to Simmons.

Any deal involving Simmons will take Wiggins+ an unknown amount of young assets. (Lets be real, Dray aint getting traded). Simmons is the much better player, but how much of a better player is he than wiggins in THIS system to includ multiple young assets and picks?

Simmons is basically a younger dray without the heart, soul, and leadership. Defensively, hes very switchable and can guard 1 through 5 when needed (but not for long stretches). He would have very little problems moving into the Sf role on defense. Offensively, he has vision, can pass, and is great on the break. In the halfcourt, hes basically a worse Oubre. Having 2 non shooters is a problem, especially when both non shooters need the ball to facilitate on offense. Looney, Zaza, Bogut, etc..were also non shooters, but they did alot of offball stuff like setting screens, bumping defenders, and did not need to touch the ball. Now this trade makes Dray basically the full time C in this scenario because Simmons CANT be a full time Sf on offense because he is such an unwilling shooter. This isnt a KD situation where u just bring in a great player and let him figure it out. KD is gifted skill wise to fit anywhere. Simmons has some weaknesses that needs to be built around offensively.

I dont know if I do any deal for Simmons.
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#179 » by ILOVEIT » Thu Sep 2, 2021 5:34 am

If you put Simmons at Center and Draymond at PF....I think that works IF
you add another dynamic knock down shooter.
Curry, Poole, Klay, Draymond, Simmons.
or
Curry, Klay, OPJ, Draymond, Simmons.


Simmons replaces the Bogut passing from the center position. Simmons is probably the best small ball center you could have passing and defense wise.

Really comes down to: Simmons <> Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody and a future first?

Having 4 legit all-stars on the team would make the Warriors at least as good as the Nets..and a hell of a lot better defensively.

If anyone thinks Draymond could get Simmons to play his ass off...I think Warriors should make the move...especially if they can keep one of either Wiseman or Kuminga.
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Simmons yes or no 

Post#180 » by Brick Layer » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:16 am

Philly fans have long held that Simmons cannot play center full time. And Steve Kerr doesn't want to play Draymond at center for long stretches of the game. So neither can play center full time on defense. But on offense Green's defender usually leaves him to double Curry. Now whoever is guarding Simmons will leave him to double Klay. So in the playoffs if the Warriors are going to play 2 non-shooters together, where is GSW's scoring coming from if both Klay and Curry are consistently being doubled teamed?

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