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Kuminga or Wiseman with starters?

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Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#1 » by ILOVEIT » Wed Sep 1, 2021 9:32 pm

Sounds crazy...but I think I'd prefer to see Kuminga running with the first squad over Wiseman.
Pre-Klay - Curry, Wiggins, Kuminga, Draymond, Looney/BJ...I think he provides the offensive power and aggression and is able to guard out the the 3 point line. He'd come along a lot quicker.
Kuminga knows how to get a bucket, get to the line and won't have to be fed by the rest of the starters.
Curry, Klay, Kuminga, Wiggins, Draymond would be a monster super physical small ball lineup.

I just hate the way the Warriors offense slows down and clogs up with Wiseman. I feel like it would be another year of trying to fit Wiseman into a system that works best at high speed with spacing....
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#2 » by lars_rosenberg » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:05 pm

I think Kuminga will need some time to learn the system and how to move the ball. Throwing him in the starting lineup may expose his weaknesses too much and kill his confidence.
If you really want to start a rookie, look at Moody, who's more inclined to play a limited and well defined role.
Kuminga should come off the bench and have a little more freedom to make mistakes and learn game by game.

And no Wiseman shouldn't start either, Looney is our man.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#3 » by FNQ » Wed Sep 1, 2021 10:32 pm

I would also prefer Kuminga with the starters over Wiseman, but ideally, neither.

Want to hit the sweet spot with Kuminga.. you want him scoring well enough that you can tell he has a star future, but dont want him shooting so much that it becomes his whole identity and we're now saddles with another Monta/Maggette type player. If Kuminga was playing with the starters, he certainly wouldnt be asked to score as much, and would be asked to be far more defensive/complementary
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#4 » by Warriorfan » Thu Sep 2, 2021 2:41 pm

Looney starts but the 1st man out. I think Kuminga and Wiseman come in after Poole to play with Green.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#5 » by Commodor » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:26 pm

I think Moody starts for Klay until he is back. Wiseman will get some time but there is such a logjam at the 3/4 spots I do not see a ton go Kuminga early in the season happening.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#6 » by B-King » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:55 pm

Commodor wrote:I think Moody starts for Klay until he is back. Wiseman will get some time but there is such a logjam at the 3/4 spots I do not see a ton go Kuminga early in the season happening.


Moody strikes me as a better fit to not force the issue with Klay not on the floor. I hate to see Kuminga press on the 3 early in the season.

As much as I like Wiseman, he is probably best served to come off the bench for now. Let him feast on the second squad and work his way into the end game lineup.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#7 » by floppymoose » Thu Sep 2, 2021 9:15 pm

Moody is not going to start.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#8 » by HiRez » Thu Sep 2, 2021 9:29 pm

Wiseman will come off the bench, but I think he could surprise us with how much progress he's made by mid-year. Watch the vids of him, he has crazy potential unlike almost anyone in the league, just a matter of harnessing it and cutting down bad habits. Same with Kuminga really. Both players need to work on shot selection.

I think Wiseman will play more with the starters initially, because he already has. Kuminga we really don't know what we're going to get in a real NBA game yet and there will be times where it's pretty ugly. Kerr is going to yank him quick if he doesn't move the ball and starts chucking.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#9 » by xdrta+ » Thu Sep 2, 2021 10:27 pm

Kerr's not going to give Kuminga a lot of minutes until he thinks he's ready. He's got the whole training camp to get a good look at him and see who he fits best with and how. Unlike Wiseman last year, what with Chriss going down, there's no urgency to play Kuminga a lot right away.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#10 » by Money_ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 12:33 am

Just heard Marcus Thompson say they just need Wiseman to be like Javale McGee. He's 100% correct. Protect the basket, run, dunk lobs, rebound, repeat. He needs to simplify that part of the game (even though he's shown me glimpses that he can be much more than that) The biggest thing he needs to focus on especially early, is defense and staying out of foul trouble.
When James was available last season he showed a lot of potential. Though there's a maturity level that as expected, is not there yet.
The more he focuses on defense the more he'll be able to help this team win games and himself to stay on the floor.

Kuminga is just exciting all around.
If he can give you anything is spot minutes off the bench in his rookie year at 18 years old, it's gravy.
He'll need some marinating but showed some surprising maturity here and there in summer league.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#11 » by ILOVEIT » Fri Sep 3, 2021 1:59 am

Money_ wrote:Just heard Marcus Thompson say they just need Wiseman to be like Javale McGee. He's 100% correct. Protect the basket, run, dunk lobs, rebound, repeat. He needs to simplify that part of the game (even though he's shown me glimpses that he can be much more than that) The biggest thing he needs to focus on especially early, is defense and staying out of foul trouble.
When James was available last season he showed a lot of potential. Though there's a maturity level that as expected, is not there yet.
The more he focuses on defense the more he'll be able to help this team win games and himself to stay on the floor.

Kuminga is just exciting all around.
If he can give you anything is spot minutes off the bench in his rookie year at 18 years old, it's gravy.
He'll need some marinating but showed some surprising maturity here and there in summer league.


And Warriors would NEVER give Javale the ball and ask him to score with it.... So part of their mistake last year was putting Wiseman in position to make a move etc...
Looking forward to 2073....bye bye pouting moody Durant...hello again the 73 win style of hoops!
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#12 » by Samurai » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:08 am

Neither should be running with the starters, at least not yet. Steph is the engine for our offense and if you don't know how to best play with him, you end up "gunking" up our engine. See Oubre, Kelly.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#13 » by Impuniti » Fri Sep 3, 2021 5:02 am

Kuminga unlike Wiseman has the feel of the game, but he makes way too many mistakes. Way, way too many. Don't know if the Warriors are going to be patient like they were with Wiseman, which hurt the team in the long haul.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#14 » by shazam_guy » Fri Sep 3, 2021 8:43 pm

Hurt the team only in the short term. In the long haul, Wiseman needed and still needs minutes, to learn the NBA game.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#15 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 10:58 pm

shazam_guy wrote:Hurt the team only in the short term. In the long haul, Wiseman needed and still needs minutes, to learn the NBA game.


Disagree. He needs to learn the game, and thats in practice. BBIQ learned in practice, execution learned in the game. Some can do both at once but he doesnt seem to be the type

Moody, Poole, and Jessup are those types, they need NBA minutes to get up to speed, to supplement their BBIQ

Kuminga looks to be one of the types who can possibly do both, and at least deserves that shot - just like Wiseman did last year. And then we go from there

Wiseman had his shot and it failed. So he needs to learn how to play with the team, and play at the NBA level, in practice. Once he starts showing out there, then he should get the minutes. But I very much disagree with the premise (if this was your premise) that PT = development.. the real work is done with the cameras off and Wiseman frankly hasnt had much time to get better in that way so far, and he clearly needs it
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#16 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:01 pm

Impuniti wrote:Kuminga unlike Wiseman has the feel of the game, but he makes way too many mistakes. Way, way too many. Don't know if the Warriors are going to be patient like they were with Wiseman, which hurt the team in the long haul.


There hasnt been a long haul yet..

Wiseman was starting because we had no options, and was correctly developed by Kerr. He gave a great physical talent an opportunity to show he belonged on day 1. He didn't, and was overwhelmed. So then Kerr moves him to the bench to get easier minutes, and while he was still overwhelmed, he started doing better each time before he got injured. And then when the season-ending injury occurred, he was putting up solid backup minutes.

While Kuminga shouldn't start because we're just pretty deep in veterans at the 3/4, he should open the season with a finite role and we should evaluate how he looks at the NBA level early, and then develop his plan with better data. And we'll see, because development should be done on the fly based on ever-changing goals, not cookie-cutter outlines based on irrelevant historical data
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#17 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:03 pm

Commodor wrote:I think Moody starts for Klay until he is back. Wiseman will get some time but there is such a logjam at the 3/4 spots I do not see a ton go Kuminga early in the season happening.


Iguodala signed a minimum deal despite interest from other teams.. Iguodala is being given a significant role early on and my bet is that he's starting with Wiggins at the wing spots, and the team focuses a lot on defense and gameplanning the ball to Steph. In that case I'd imagine Poole is one of the first off the bench, subbing out for Wiggins, along with Bjelica or Wiseman coming in for Looney
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#18 » by Onus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:06 pm

I feel like kuminga may steal some of wiseman’s minutes at the 5
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#19 » by Samurai » Sat Sep 4, 2021 5:23 pm

Onus wrote:I feel like kuminga may steal some of wiseman’s minutes at the 5

Not sure if "stealing" is the right word. Kerr's lineup is heavily dependent on match-ups; if the other team is rolling out a small ball lineup, then I can see him trying Kuminga. But those wouldn't be Wiseman's minutes anyway so nothing is being stolen. Likewise if its a 7-footer in the opposing lineup, Kerr may opt for Wiseman over Kuminga, but he likely wouldn't be thinking Kuminga for those spots so Wiseman isn't "stealing" Kuminga's minutes. Its all minutes for the team and whom Kerr feels gives him the best chance of winning; that is heavily dependent on who the other team is putting on the court.
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Re: Kuminga or Wiseman with starters? 

Post#20 » by Onus » Sat Sep 4, 2021 8:24 pm

Samurai wrote:
Onus wrote:I feel like kuminga may steal some of wiseman’s minutes at the 5

Not sure if "stealing" is the right word. Kerr's lineup is heavily dependent on match-ups; if the other team is rolling out a small ball lineup, then I can see him trying Kuminga. But those wouldn't be Wiseman's minutes anyway so nothing is being stolen. Likewise if its a 7-footer in the opposing lineup, Kerr may opt for Wiseman over Kuminga, but he likely wouldn't be thinking Kuminga for those spots so Wiseman isn't "stealing" Kuminga's minutes. Its all minutes for the team and whom Kerr feels gives him the best chance of winning; that is heavily dependent on who the other team is putting on the court.

Stealing because they both need as many minutes on the floor as possible, matchups for their development are kind of irrelevant since they need to find out how to play against different matchups and not be a matchup dependent player. If either are a matchup dependent player then they both didn’t reach their ceiling.

Any minutes kuminga gets at the 5 essentially is taking minutes away from wiseman since wiseman is positionally locked as a 5. Unless of course wiseman is able to beat out looney/belly/draymond for minutes. Let’s be conservative and say looney gets 18, belly gets 10, draymond gets 4 minutes at the 5. That’s 32 minutes that leaves 16 minutes for wiseman. That’s already not a lot of time.
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