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Draymond/Simmons frontcourt

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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#21 » by GQ Hot Dog » Thu Sep 2, 2021 4:30 pm

GunnerWRX wrote:Image

I wonder if people saying Draymond can't play with a non-shooter/scorer actually watched any Warriors game at all.


As has been mentioned before, this is in the context of Draymond having the ball in his hands as one of the main creators and playmakers.

What's the thinking here, that Simmons plays center? He's most effective as a perimeter defender which means his defensive impact would be severely compromised if he had to spend all his time in the paint wrestling with 7fters.

It's obvious that Wiggins is a better fit because as a talented 3 level scorer he isn't forced to play center and he's an excellent perimeter defender in his own right. Wiggins is an ideal addition to Kerr's scheme as a 2 way player that doesn't need the ball in his hands to make an impact.

Simmons without the ball? How's he making an impact? He becomes little more than a relay station to another player that's capable of knocking down an open shot. The defense can practically ignore him. They can't ignore Wiggins.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#22 » by ChuckDurn » Thu Sep 2, 2021 4:31 pm

xdrta+ wrote:According to Anthony Slater of the Athletic today, discussion about Simmons with the Warriors amounted to a single phone call before the draft. Morey asked for Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, Golden State’s two picks in this year’s lottery and a pair of future first-rounders. The Warriors declined and there has been no further contact about Simmons.

There sure has been a lot of off-season chatter by everyone else, though.

Yeah, it's been a lot of media and fan hype, but everything Slater said made sense.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#23 » by Impuniti » Thu Sep 2, 2021 4:42 pm

ChuckDurn wrote:
Kuya wrote:We can't give up the heart and soul Draymond and it's risky starting for floor spacing if we start both of them together. In my opinion this only works if we start both Dray/Simmons at the 4 and 5 OR if we landed Simmons and a bought out Kevin Love or big floor spacer at the 5.

Otherwise I don't see this trade, that's been getting a lot of steam, working.

I don’t think the trade’s getting a lot of steam.

But a line-up with Draymond and Looney starting has worked just fine, and Looney isn’t exactly a floor-spacer.

Not saying it’s simple, but the whole “you can’t play 2 guys who don’t space the floor together” is proven inaccurate if it’s the right guys. They’d probably play together for about 16-18 minutes/game, and you could stagger them for the rest of the game.

Those 2 things are not the same. Dray and Looney work because they have a shooter playing the 3, who was also one of the best defenders in the league last season. It's not like the Warriors are just adding Simmons to the roster.

Also Looney is making around 5m a year.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#24 » by parsnips33 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:10 pm

GQ Hot Dog wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:Image

I wonder if people saying Draymond can't play with a non-shooter/scorer actually watched any Warriors game at all.


As has been mentioned before, this is in the context of Draymond having the ball in his hands as one of the main creators and playmakers.

What's the thinking here, that Simmons plays center? He's most effective as a perimeter defender which means his defensive impact would be severely compromised if he had to spend all his time in the paint wrestling with 7fters.

It's obvious that Wiggins is a better fit because as a talented 3 level scorer he isn't forced to play center and he's an excellent perimeter defender in his own right. Wiggins is an ideal addition to Kerr's scheme as a 2 way player that doesn't need the ball in his hands to make an impact.

Simmons without the ball? How's he making an impact? He becomes little more than a relay station to another player that's capable of knocking down an open shot. The defense can practically ignore him. They can't ignore Wiggins.


He's massive, extremely athletic, and has some of the best vision in the league. The idea that he wouldn't work in an offense that has ALWAYS relied on distributed playmaking across positions (Bogut, Iguodala, David West) doesn't track for me

The best lineups would feature Dray at C and Simmons at PF and switch everything while still having Draymond as a last line of defense. That's what has always made the Death Lineup so deadly, and Simmons would fit right into that

He wouldn't be KD (the perfect fit) but he has a lot of skills that play into what the Warriors like to do
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#25 » by GSWFan1994 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:23 pm

I can't hardly wait for the season to start so this rumour is put to bed... once again.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#26 » by Flash Falcon X » Thu Sep 2, 2021 6:49 pm

People are concerned about two non-shooters in the frontline when the Warriors won all their championships with a Draymond/Bogut or Draymond/Zaza frontline. Both Bogut and Zaza aren't shooters.

So the concern isn't about shooting, it's about size. A frontline of Simmons/Draymond at the 4/5 would still fit within the Warriors offense as it did with Bogut and Zaza, the only difference is the lack of size at the 5 on the defensive end. Draymond at the 5 works as a small-ball 5 but we usually save that for our Death Line-up to end games as opposed to playing him center full-time.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#27 » by xdrta+ » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:07 pm

Flash Falcon X wrote:People are concerned about two non-shooters in the frontline when the Warriors won all their championships with a Draymond/Bogut or Draymond/Zaza frontline. Both Bogut and Zaza aren't shooters.

So the concern isn't about shooting, it's about size. A frontline of Simmons/Draymond at the 4/5 would still fit within the Warriors offense as it did with Bogut and Zaza, the only difference is the lack of size at the 5 on the defensive end. Draymond at the 5 works as a small-ball 5 but we usually save that for our Death Line-up to end games as opposed to playing him center full-time.


The difference is that both Bogut and Zaza were centers.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#28 » by TB » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:14 pm

^ Yup. I'm not saying it can't be done, coaches can get clever and obviously in transition it will work. But our current offense would require Dray or Simmons in the dunkers spot. Thats the fit issue, and i'm not sure either would agree to that role.

That doesn't even mention that it then would require the other 3 players to be shooters, thus eliminating alot of our center options outside of Bjelica. So now we also have the fit issue of Simmons mostly defending interior players and not being on the perimeter.

Again, it can be figured out.. but its not a good fit with our current system. But I really do like Simmons and think he could thrive next to Steph/Klay. Just doesn't seem like the easiest plug and play fit.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#29 » by parsnips33 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:43 pm

xdrta+ wrote:
Flash Falcon X wrote:People are concerned about two non-shooters in the frontline when the Warriors won all their championships with a Draymond/Bogut or Draymond/Zaza frontline. Both Bogut and Zaza aren't shooters.

So the concern isn't about shooting, it's about size. A frontline of Simmons/Draymond at the 4/5 would still fit within the Warriors offense as it did with Bogut and Zaza, the only difference is the lack of size at the 5 on the defensive end. Draymond at the 5 works as a small-ball 5 but we usually save that for our Death Line-up to end games as opposed to playing him center full-time.


The difference is that both Bogut and Zaza were centers.


You think the problem with a Simmons/Draymond frontcourt would be not enough shooting?
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#30 » by parsnips33 » Thu Sep 2, 2021 7:46 pm

TB wrote:^ Yup. I'm not saying it can't be done, coaches can get clever and obviously in transition it will work. But our current offense would require Dray or Simmons in the dunkers spot. Thats the fit issue, and i'm not sure either would agree to that role.

That doesn't even mention that it then would require the other 3 players to be shooters, thus eliminating alot of our center options outside of Bjelica. So now we also have the fit issue of Simmons mostly defending interior players and not being on the perimeter.

Again, it can be figured out.. but its not a good fit with our current system. But I really do like Simmons and think he could thrive next to Steph/Klay. Just doesn't seem like the easiest plug and play fit.


Isn't the beauty of Simmons defensively his insane switchability? So he might start a play on a frontcourt player, but can easily switch on to just about anyone as the game dictates.

Draymond/Simmons would be the most switchable defensive frontcourt possibly ever, and Draymond is still an elite help defender

Not to mention what having two bona fide PGs in the front court would mean for our transition game
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#31 » by TB » Thu Sep 2, 2021 8:00 pm

parsnips33 wrote:
TB wrote:^ Yup. I'm not saying it can't be done, coaches can get clever and obviously in transition it will work. But our current offense would require Dray or Simmons in the dunkers spot. Thats the fit issue, and i'm not sure either would agree to that role.

That doesn't even mention that it then would require the other 3 players to be shooters, thus eliminating alot of our center options outside of Bjelica. So now we also have the fit issue of Simmons mostly defending interior players and not being on the perimeter.

Again, it can be figured out.. but its not a good fit with our current system. But I really do like Simmons and think he could thrive next to Steph/Klay. Just doesn't seem like the easiest plug and play fit.


Isn't the beauty of Simmons defensively his insane switchability? So he might start a play on a frontcourt player, but can easily switch on to just about anyone as the game dictates.

Draymond/Simmons would be the most switchable defensive frontcourt possibly ever, and Draymond is still an elite help defender

Not to mention what having two bona fide PGs in the front court would mean for our transition game


Ya I agree to all of that. Switching on defense and elite playmaking in transition (and some half court sets) are the massive benefits to having Simmons.

Only concern is too much defending of bigger bodies (if you cant play a non shooting center with them), as well as the concern that many of our half court sets would require one of them to just play the center role. It's all doable, just will take alot of smart coaching and buying in.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#32 » by Brick Layer » Thu Sep 2, 2021 10:45 pm

The Warriors trading for Ben Simmons is totally moot given Anthony Slater's current article stating the Warriors received just the one call from Morey just before the draft and said no. There have been no other calls to or from the Warriors since that rejection and the Warriors have no plans to make any calls about Ben Simmons. Any discussions regarding trading for Ben Simmons or how he would fit on the Warriors should be completely and totally DEAD unless the Warriors FO initiates trade discussions with the 76ers.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#33 » by Money_ » Thu Sep 2, 2021 11:28 pm

Both are talented players and could find a way to make it work. What I imagine initially is Draymond would have to be the PG and Simmons the slasher when they are both on the floor. If Simmons is playing as the play maker, what would Draymond do on offense? lol... stand in the dunker's spot or the occasional back door cut? Set picks and get out of the way?

Either way, I think they could make it work with great results, and I'm not even in favor of trading for Simmons.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#34 » by Brick Layer » Fri Sep 3, 2021 4:06 pm

Thought the following link on the 76ers and Ben Simmons might be of interest:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/when-will-ben-simmons-look-mirror-doc-rivers-joel-embiid
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#35 » by FNQ » Fri Sep 3, 2021 11:09 pm

We could make it work... it would be ugly but it could happen for stretches

It wont until Simmons' actual value and trade value enter the same stratosphere though. Nothing about Simmons right now is worth a FRP of any kind. When your team essentially drags you in the media, and there's an obvious personality rift.. why would we want to get involved with any of that? I'd rather take another Wiggins - an underrated, overkilled, unassuming type player over a more talented drama magnet
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#36 » by Ilovethebay » Tue Sep 7, 2021 6:19 pm

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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#37 » by HiRez » Tue Sep 7, 2021 8:59 pm

Brick Layer wrote:Thought the following link on the 76ers and Ben Simmons might be of interest:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/when-will-ben-simmons-look-mirror-doc-rivers-joel-embiid

Simmons straight up for Wiggins sounds OK right now. Seems very unlikely Lacob is going to give away the whole boat for him, so that's good. If we get him, it'll be relatively cheaply. If not, I will enjoy every moment of Morey being tortured by his greed.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#38 » by cdubbz » Wed Sep 8, 2021 1:45 am

HiRez wrote:
Brick Layer wrote:Thought the following link on the 76ers and Ben Simmons might be of interest:

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/when-will-ben-simmons-look-mirror-doc-rivers-joel-embiid

Simmons straight up for Wiggins sounds OK right now. Seems very unlikely Lacob is going to give away the whole boat for him, so that's good. If we get him, it'll be relatively cheaply. If not, I will enjoy every moment of Morey being tortured by his greed.


If Simmons camp makes it awkward for the Sixers than we can get BS for Wiggins I’m sure.
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#39 » by Crazy-Canuck » Wed Sep 8, 2021 9:02 am

if simmons is so adverse to criticism and is basically drowning in entitlement, hows he going to react when Dray gives him a dirty look?

He going to call Rich Paul and take it to social media? Or is he just going to quit? Nothing in his history says he will buck up.

Didnt he quit on LSU?
isnt he quitting on the 6ers?
Will he quit on the warriors?
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Re: Draymond/Simmons frontcourt 

Post#40 » by ShootersShoot » Wed Sep 8, 2021 6:49 pm

It could work but I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up wiggins/kuminga/wiseman or whatever the sixers want in return for that experiment. Its for sure not an ideal fit and if I were to give up our young guys and wiggs it would preferably be for a better player. Wiggins isnt even a negative at this point. He is about to become a 30+ mill expiring in a year and has been an effective player for us.

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