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James Wiseman 2021/2022

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James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#1 » by GSWFan1994 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:24 pm

Guys,

I thought it was a good idea to make a new Wiseman thread, as he's one of our main future/promising pieces, and to follow his development too.

Mods, if you feel like this thread isn't needed, please delete/merge it with the other older one.

So, there's 2 news from today's The Athletic article:

- Wiseman is supposed to be fully cleared to practice/play in the next couple of weeks.

- He won't be going back & forth between both clubs (Warriors/Santa Cruz). Maybe he goes to Santa Cruz once he's fully cleared, to practice and perhaps play in some games, but once he's back to the main team, he will be there to stay.

All in all, I have high hopes for James this coming season. I don't expect a big jump from him, more like a moderate uptick in production & engagement with the team's system, then a surefire jump in his 3rd/4th season.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#2 » by a8bil » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:30 pm

I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#3 » by WarriorGM » Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:46 pm

a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.


Who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz then? I think the opposite. Wiseman should play in Santa Cruz. He should be able to work on his game away from the spotlight and he needs to get reps in without the burden of immediate consequence. He hasn't played in a G-League level and skipped right up to the main show and looked awkward. If he can show in G-League his prior stint upstairs taught him enough to dominate then bring him back quickly. Otherwise let him build confidence at the rate he requires.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#4 » by Onus » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:06 pm

I don't know if this will be his break out year or not, but i'm giving him until year 3 or 4 to truly evaluate him. The team is truly investing a lot in his development.

He definitely gives us something that the team doesn't currently have so there's that. I'll add that the article also said to expect him to play with the 2nd unit and expect heavy doses of pick and roll with Poole
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#5 » by DonaldSanders » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:08 pm

I trust the coaches to find the right spot for him to develop. Last year was a good opportunity for him to just get play time, hopefully it helped him realize how he does have to focus on improvement and get the most out of the coaches & vet advice.

There's a difficult balance where you don't want him to get too discouraged being sent down to Santa Cruz, as much as you want him to just see it as developing, it's very hard for a young man to go from a #2 overall pick that is starting and showed signs of improvement at the end of the season to then not dressing and playing in SC. This is where you need to trust the coaches to make the right call based on what is right for James.

Now that Andre & Klay are back and involved with the club it'll be good for him to get the feel of playing with/being around a championship core.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#6 » by Samurai » Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:32 pm

a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.

I think getting time in SC could be very important. Working on individual drills is fine, but to develop the timing of playing in a game you need full 5-on-5 practices. There are extremely few 5-on-5's during the regular season because it saps the players' energy too much and poses injury risks. When they had to somehow come up with a 5-on-5 to work on Boogie's timing and stamina, they had to use the coaching staff and a couple of rookies to come up with 10 bodies. And I know some of the staff still have skills, but there is a reason they are no longer playing 25 minutes/game in the NBA. Hence they had to send Boogie to SC for a few games so that he could play some actual 5-on-5 basketball. I think Wiseman will also need a few 5-on-5 experiences before he can just jump back in to the deep end of the pool.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#7 » by marthafokker » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:01 pm

Management should tell SC Scrubs that if they will not setup plays for Wiseman, they will either get benched or released.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#8 » by SpreeChokeJob » Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:07 pm

He will reach his potential when he finds the right barber.

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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#9 » by clyde21 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm

still don't see how a player his archetype scales in our system/scheme, hoping he can develop enough value where we could find a nice trade for him, but long term I have my doubts on this team specifically.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#10 » by FNQ » Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:26 pm

a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.


Either way works because he really needs both. The NBA game is way too fast for him, so minutes in the NBA should help with that. Conversely, I dont think he's all that knowledgeable about the game yet, so GLeague could help him there

But I dont see him having a positive impact again this season. I'd expect him to be in the deep negatives of RPM and BPM, as well as looking generally unfavorable in player tracking. That's my benchmark, so that its almost impossible for him to disappoint this season. Frankly he's been an afterthought for me when thinking of rotations

And I believe I have a bet with Sleepy that if he's a positive in any metric (cant remember if it was *any* month or a certain month, but I'm good with either).. so I'm obviously not expecting much from the kid. Just get better, however he can, and thats a win for me
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#11 » by a8bil » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:03 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.


Who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz then?
I think the opposite. Wiseman should play in Santa Cruz. He should be able to work on his game away from the spotlight and he needs to get reps in without the burden of immediate consequence. He hasn't played in a G-League level and skipped right up to the main show and looked awkward. If he can show in G-League his prior stint upstairs taught him enough to dominate then bring him back quickly. Otherwise let him build confidence at the rate he requires.


Poole. Poole was being asked to come in and become a ball dominant, shoot-off-the-dribble guard. He needed to work on his handle, decision-making, shot....starting in the G-league gave him a chance to do all those things against lesser talent, until he was able to dominate at that level. Once he did, he was elevated.

If you're going to send JW down to work on his offensive attack...then I agree, but my view of Wiseman right now is that the team needs to have him learn to set solid screens that work within the GSW motion offense, have him run the pick and roll, and have him learn how to recognize his role in the defensive switching scheme. I may be wrong but I don't think the caliber of the game at SC is going to accelerate his learning in these areas, which are predominantly mental. Playing against NBA caliber players in game and in practice, with effectively defensive coaches on the floor in iggy and dray, will be invaluable for his development as a + defender.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#12 » by Sleepy51 » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:11 pm

WarriorGM wrote:
a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.


Who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz then? I think the opposite. Wiseman should play in Santa Cruz. He should be able to work on his game away from the spotlight and he needs to get reps in without the burden of immediate consequence. He hasn't played in a G-League level and skipped right up to the main show and looked awkward. If he can show in G-League his prior stint upstairs taught him enough to dominate then bring him back quickly. Otherwise let him build confidence at the rate he requires.


The answer to "who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz" is guards and wings. It's a disastrous environment for big players. Either they will be ignored or they will be able to dominate against small without having to learn to do the things that actually work against other big players (see Anthony Baby Jesus Randolph, summer league HOF'er.)

Wiseman was lost and unguided in his first NBA foray, yet he made some meaningful improvements by the time he was finally injured. He is a player who is accidentally capable of scoring 12 points per game at the NBA level. He needs to play against other competent big bodies and learn how to do that on purpose and within an ORGANIZED basketball system. That's not what the D league does well at this point. I don't know if it ever will because there simply are not enough 7 foot people in the world for enough of them who actually have the requisite coordination and interest to be good at basketball to be playing in a lower level often enough to play against each of to develop true big vs. big skills.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#13 » by The-Power » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:14 pm

FNQ wrote:Either way works because he really needs both. The NBA game is way too fast for him, so minutes in the NBA should help with that. Conversely, I dont think he's all that knowledgeable about the game yet, so GLeague could help him there

My issue with the G-League is that what Wiseman needs to learn is how to simplify his game and how to be McGee before trying to be AD. That's the opposite of what he'd do in the G-League. I want him with the main team in a simple and lower-usage role, especially on offense. On defense he could use more reps but I also feel like he'll have to learn how to maneuver in our defensive scheme from being with the first team and soaking everything in – game time, practice, film.

FNQ wrote:Frankly he's been an afterthought for me when thinking of rotations

Understandable after last year, but iirc Kerr noted already that they'll need Wiseman this season to deal with size in the opponents' line-ups and to have vertical spacing on offense. Not sure how much of this was based on what they've seen from him during his rehab, or how much of it was also meant to just give him confidence – but I do believe that Wiseman is the only young lottery pick they really expect anything from this season.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#14 » by GunnerWRX » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:24 pm

Similey shot .600 ts% with a 20% dreb rate in Santa Cruz as well. Still looked like **** when he returned to the main club.

Maybe centers have a rougher time benefiting in Santa Cruz, because they don't have the ball as much, and the scrub guards there are looking out for themselves and are not focused on utilizing the centers.

Maybe the growth depends on the player as well - Poole had the skills but not the confidence before SC.

Just saying it really depends on the dude. Sitting next to and listening to Iguodala can be very beneficial as well.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#15 » by FNQ » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:25 pm

The-Power wrote:
FNQ wrote:Either way works because he really needs both. The NBA game is way too fast for him, so minutes in the NBA should help with that. Conversely, I dont think he's all that knowledgeable about the game yet, so GLeague could help him there

My issue with the G-League is that what Wiseman needs to learn is how to simplify his game and how to be McGee before trying to be AD. That's the opposite of what he'd do in the G-League. I want him with the main team in a simple and lower-usage role, especially on offense. On defense he could use more reps but I also feel like he'll have to learn how to maneuver in our defensive scheme from being with the first team and soaking everything in – game time, practice, film.

FNQ wrote:Frankly he's been an afterthought for me when thinking of rotations

Understandable after last year, but iirc Kerr noted already that they'll need Wiseman this season to deal with size in the opponents' line-ups and to have vertical spacing on offense. Not sure how much of this was based on what they've seen from him during his rehab, or how much of it was also meant to just give him confidence – but I do believe that Wiseman is the only young lottery pick they really expect anything from this season.


I think the GLeague will help with him with confidence/offense, and the NBA team helps with defense.

One thing that drove me crazy about Wiseman is inability to improvise, at all. And improvise might be a bad descriptor, because he seemed to decide what he was going to do before he even got the ball, which was extremely disruptive to our offense. He was equally disruptive to our offense as defense, and he needs work in both. In most situations a big wont learn much there, but Wiseman is one with handles and a jumper. He just needs to be able to adapt on the fly, and I think the GL can help him with that

I'd expect Moody to be way more important by about the midway point. And that's not necessarily an indictment of Wiseman or Kuminga, but a glowing review of what I think Moody can do. He's every employer's dream: he's a young, 20 year old candidate with 16 years of prior experience. Or at least he plays like it.. I would imagine he forces Kerr's hand sooner than later. Unless Lee can keep up his stellar play, which he historically hasn't. But I see Moody taking the Poole path, where once he's given a chance at a role, there will be no looking back
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#16 » by Chupchup » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:32 pm

If there's no minutes for him on the main team then send him to the G League. Wiseman needs all the reps he can get.

Last year Jordan Poole asked to go to the G League and he went there and balled out. Poole came back confident and played great.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#17 » by Onus » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:00 pm

Wiseman needs playing time somewhere and he's probably not going to get many minutes with the big club. He may not get all the things that he would playing in the nba but he just needs to see what's going on and how he should react. He's not going to be a switching defender so he can learn how to be a drop defender in the g league. Wherever he does play the offense is going to change because of him
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#18 » by a8bil » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:02 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:
WarriorGM wrote:
a8bil wrote:I don't see him benefitting from time in SC. I think time with the big club where he's able to see his role better and learn to play within it is probably what's best for his development. Playing on the second rotation, he'll have an impact just by virtue of the fact that his length will adjust shots in the paint and force the other team's game outside of the paint. He'll also get a lot of easy buckets at high efficiency.


Who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz then? I think the opposite. Wiseman should play in Santa Cruz. He should be able to work on his game away from the spotlight and he needs to get reps in without the burden of immediate consequence. He hasn't played in a G-League level and skipped right up to the main show and looked awkward. If he can show in G-League his prior stint upstairs taught him enough to dominate then bring him back quickly. Otherwise let him build confidence at the rate he requires.


The answer to "who is the kind of player that should go to Santa Cruz" is guards and wings. It's a disastrous environment for big players. Either they will be ignored or they will be able to dominate against small without having to learn to do the things that actually work against other big players (see Anthony Baby Jesus Randolph, summer league HOF'er.)

Wiseman was lost and unguided in his first NBA foray, yet he made some meaningful improvements by the time he was finally injured. He is a player who is accidentally capable of scoring 12 points per game at the NBA level. He needs to play against other competent big bodies and learn how to do that on purpose and within an ORGANIZED basketball system. That's not what the D league does well at this point. I don't know if it ever will because there simply are not enough 7 foot people in the world for enough of them who actually have the requisite coordination and interest to be good at basketball to be playing in a lower level often enough to play against each of to develop true big vs. big skills.
Excellent post...exactly what I meant to say, but you said it much better.
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#19 » by WarriorGM » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:04 pm

I think there is a presumption that Wiseman is weak on defense but according to one analysis on Reddit Wiseman on defense is comparable to Ayton or at least a younger version of Ayton on several indicators. Where Wiseman really hurt the team last year was supposedly on the offensive side. Any opinions on that?
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Re: James Wiseman 2021/2022 

Post#20 » by a8bil » Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:53 pm

WarriorGM wrote:I think there is a presumption that Wiseman is weak on defense but according to one analysis on Reddit Wiseman on defense is comparable to Ayton or at least a younger version of Ayton on several indicators. Where Wiseman really hurt the team last year was supposedly on the offensive side. Any opinions on that?
In my view, JW was lost on rotation defense...not good. He did change a lot of shots in the paint, however, just by virtue of his size. Offensively, later in the season, he was scoring at a high rate when cutting to the hoop (hands improved as the season went on) and PNR. His deep shots and pretend PG moves were definitely a detractor.

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