James Wiseman 2021/2022

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I don't get why people are ready to give up on wiseman but are high on Kuminga. They both have the same issues but Wiseman comes in a 7' monster package.

I've never seen Kuminga get sized by an offensive player and then taken 1on1 to the hole and get put into the basket with an AND1 on top of it. I'll never forget when that happened to Wiseman when he tried guarding Lebron out on the perimeter. He looked like a scared baby deer, and there's nothing that shows that he will ever be able to guard guys out on the perimeter at his size. Kuminga could easily be one of the 5 guys who finishes a game for us in the playoffs. Wiseman will never do that.

Can't agree more. I thought the whole premise of the team's ID was having guys who has a perimeter game by guarding and switching on the perimeter. For a 7 footer like Wiseman and the like, I haven't seen them shutdown or contain quicker and even stronger players half their size. I mean, has anyone even seen those beefy legs of Wiseman's? For that, I do think Wiseman will only be able to guard in the post and provide help defense if his teammate gets blown by the offense. That's all I would expect from him as long as Curry and the old gang are still here. But, he wasn't worth the 2nd round pick in my eyes for what this team was built upon. Time will tell.

[Onus]

I don't get why people are ready to give up on wiseman but are high on Kuminga. They both have the same issues but Wiseman comes in a 7' monster package.

I've never seen Kuminga get sized by an offensive player and then taken 1on1 to the hole and get put into the basket with an AND1 on top of it. I'll never forget when that happened to Wiseman when he tried guarding Lebron out on the perimeter. He looked like a scared baby deer, and there's nothing that shows that he will ever be able to guard guys out on the perimeter at his size. Kuminga could easily be one of the 5 guys who finishes a game for us in the playoffs. Wiseman will never do that.

Never is a strong word, unlikely possibly. It may take him awhile to find ways to stay on the court defensively against certain matchups but maybe he figures something out. He's so raw and as a big it usually takes you 4 years to start making a significant impact. So like i've been saying since he's been drafted I'm going to give him those 4 years and then re-assess.

But Kuminga is just as raw on offense and defense. Technically he should be able to guard 1-5 but his help defense and rotations are still a mess.

[Big J]

I don't get why people are ready to give up on wiseman but are high on Kuminga. They both have the same issues but Wiseman comes in a 7' monster package.

I've never seen Kuminga get sized by an offensive player and then taken 1on1 to the hole and get put into the basket with an AND1 on top of it. I'll never forget when that happened to Wiseman when he tried guarding Lebron out on the perimeter. He looked like a scared baby deer, and there's nothing that shows that he will ever be able to guard guys out on the perimeter at his size. Kuminga could easily be one of the 5 guys who finishes a game for us in the playoffs. Wiseman will never do that.

Never is a strong word, unlikely possibly. It may take him awhile to find ways to stay on the court defensively against certain matchups but maybe he figures something out. He's so raw and as a big it usually takes you 4 years to start making a significant impact. So like i've been saying since he's been drafted I'm going to give him those 4 years and then re-assess.

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

[Onus]

I've never seen Kuminga get sized by an offensive player and then taken 1on1 to the hole and get put into the basket with an AND1 on top of it. I'll never forget when that happened to Wiseman when he tried guarding Lebron out on the perimeter. He looked like a scared baby deer, and there's nothing that shows that he will ever be able to guard guys out on the perimeter at his size. Kuminga could easily be one of the 5 guys who finishes a game for us in the playoffs. Wiseman will never do that.

Never is a strong word, unlikely possibly. It may take him awhile to find ways to stay on the court defensively against certain matchups but maybe he figures something out. He's so raw and as a big it usually takes you 4 years to start making a significant impact. So like i've been saying since he's been drafted I'm going to give him those 4 years and then re-assess.

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

why not we're getting absolutely nothing from our last 2 years of draft picks in this run already?

[azwfan]

I've never seen Kuminga get sized by an offensive player and then taken 1on1 to the hole and get put into the basket with an AND1 on top of it. I'll never forget when that happened to Wiseman when he tried guarding Lebron out on the perimeter. He looked like a scared baby deer, and there's nothing that shows that he will ever be able to guard guys out on the perimeter at his size. Kuminga could easily be one of the 5 guys who finishes a game for us in the playoffs. Wiseman will never do that.

Never is a strong word, unlikely possibly. It may take him awhile to find ways to stay on the court defensively against certain matchups but maybe he figures something out. He's so raw and as a big it usually takes you 4 years to start making a significant impact. So like i've been saying since he's been drafted I'm going to give him those 4 years and then re-assess.

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

Do you have the stats on that? Cause the ones I saw (that cant find now) showed Ayton doing really well on Luka. Meanwhile Bridges got torched.

Maybe we shouldnt get any wings because Luka torched Bridges? Or maybe, just maybe, Luka is really good and torches good defense regardless of the guy covering him.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

Never is a strong word, unlikely possibly. It may take him awhile to find ways to stay on the court defensively against certain matchups but maybe he figures something out. He's so raw and as a big it usually takes you 4 years to start making a significant impact. So like i've been saying since he's been drafted I'm going to give him those 4 years and then re-assess.

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

why not we're getting absolutely nothing from our last 2 years of draft picks in this run already?

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens to this team once Curry, Thompson, and Green throw in the towel and call it a career, respectively. Once that does happen, lets see if Poole, Wiseman, and Kuminga can make us proud. Poole is obviously going to be the leader of the team if he sticks around. And it's obviously going to be hard to draft or pickup someone in free agency to replicate the kind of success this team has had for while now.

[wco81]

Phoenix wouldn't have even gotten to the Finals last year without Ayton, who was very efficient through the ECF.

They probably would have lost to the Pelicans this year without Ayton.

[Frozzy]

I don't get why people are ready to give up on wiseman but are high on Kuminga. They both have the same issues but Wiseman comes in a 7' monster package.

Wiseman's game is even more raw, has a smaller body of work to refer to when judging him due to injuries, and a lot of people struggle to see his playstyle fit on this team.

[Onus]

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

why not we're getting absolutely nothing from our last 2 years of draft picks in this run already?

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens to this team once Curry, Thompson, and Green throw in the towel and call it a career, respectively. Once that does happen, lets see if Poole, Wiseman, and Kuminga can make us proud. Poole is obviously going to be the leader of the team if he sticks around. And it's obviously going to be hard to draft or pickup someone in free agency to replicate the kind of success this team has had for while now.

Team will be completely different. We just have to hope that who ever is the coach can come up with a system that they can all buy into and then they can isolate and play pick and roll at the end of games/quarters. That's really been our secret sauce and what Phil Jackson did as well. It doesn't matter whether the system is triangle or motion, it's about letting the system get you easy shots without your star having to do everything every possession. Then when things break down or the game is tight we break out of the system and let the stars shine. I really don't expect us to use a motion system once Steph hangs them up though, but I hope it's not just pick and roll.

[azwfan]

Yea, but even Ayton who is miles ahead of Wiseman with his defense was getting eaten alive by Luka on switches at the end of that series. We don't really have 4 years to wait for him to hopefully be as good as Ayton.

why not we're getting absolutely nothing from our last 2 years of draft picks in this run already?

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens to this team once Curry, Thompson, and Green throw in the towel and call it a career, respectively. Once that does happen, lets see if Poole, Wiseman, and Kuminga can make us proud. Poole is obviously going to be the leader of the team if he sticks around. And it's obviously going to be hard to draft or pickup someone in free agency to replicate the kind of success this team has had for while now.

Agreed.
If we’re going to stay at a highly competitive level we need one of these 4 to really be a star and at least 1-2 of them to be pretty darn good.

We can afford to blow it on one - right now looks like Wiseman, if nothing else due to injuries.

Poole looks good, but not sure about star level. Sometimes he looks like it, othertimes he doesnt. Love his work ethic.

Kuminga has talent, Im not sure if the work ethic is there. Maybe just the maturity (?). Still hopeful for him though.

Moody looks good for our system, I’m just not sure on upside.

Wiseman looked enticing at time rookie year and frustratingly lost other times. But thats really all the info we have on him thru 2 seasons.

If i had to bet on it, id say best bet is with Poole, then either JK or Moody. Pretty sure Moody will at least be solid. JK not sure on how quickly or well he will develop. With Poole’s emergence i have faith in the coaching staff now, and its about the players getting it done. Wiseman - i dont know if he can sustain health long enough to give me an indication of how well he can develop.

[Onus]

I don't get why people are ready to give up on wiseman but are high on Kuminga. They both have the same issues but Wiseman comes in a 7' monster package.

Wiseman's game is even more raw, has a smaller body of work to refer to when judging him due to injuries, and a lot of people struggle to see his playstyle fit on this team.

More raw than Kuminga? Kuminga is pretty damn raw and really it's probably on the same level.

What playstyle is that? Isolation and post ups? that's exactly what we do with Kuminga. Kuminga isn't good with the switching stuff or rotation stuff on defense either. Kuminga probably fits more on ball defense than Wiseman does but maybe Wiseman gives us something else off ball?

[Onus]

why not we're getting absolutely nothing from our last 2 years of draft picks in this run already?

I think it'd be interesting to see what happens to this team once Curry, Thompson, and Green throw in the towel and call it a career, respectively. Once that does happen, lets see if Poole, Wiseman, and Kuminga can make us proud. Poole is obviously going to be the leader of the team if he sticks around. And it's obviously going to be hard to draft or pickup someone in free agency to replicate the kind of success this team has had for while now.

Agreed.
If we’re going to stay at a highly competitive level we need one of these 4 to really be a star and at least 1-2 of them to be pretty darn good.

We can afford to blow it on one - right now looks like Wiseman, if nothing else due to injuries.

Poole looks good, but not sure about star level. Sometimes he looks like it, othertimes he doesnt. Love his work ethic.

Kuminga has talent, Im not sure if the work ethic is there. Maybe just the maturity (?). Still hopeful for him though.

Moody looks good for our system, I’m just not sure on upside.

Wiseman looked enticing at time rookie year and frustratingly lost other times. But thats really all the info we have on him thru 2 seasons.

If i had to bet on it, id say best bet is with Poole, then either JK or Moody. Pretty sure Moody will at least be solid. JK not sure on how quickly or well he will develop. With Poole’s emergence i have faith in the coaching staff now, and its about the players getting it done. Wiseman - i dont know if he can sustain health long enough to give me an indication of how well he can develop.

What gives me faith in wiseman is what Dejan has been able to do with Looney. Looney looks like a completely different player this year.

[radtech]

Poole was successful because of hard work, patience by Dubs, and low expectations. The 28th pick outplayed his draft slot. It also helped that Jacob Evans was even worse, so Dubs picked the younger cheaper guard of the two.

Wiseman's troubles began in college, he quit on Memphis, got injured, didn't deserve the starting nod over Loon, and stayed injured this entire year. His draft status is keeping him on the team, not his play, when he does play.

The Dubs integrating Kuminga and Moody slowly shows winning is important as developing those two. Wiseman, if not injured, would also have been brought in slowly, but the team hovered around five hundred all season and Klay, Steph, and Dray all miss big chunks.

Loon has proven once again winning plays are more important than flashy plays. Trade Wiseman for a 2023 pick, resign Loon, sign JaVale McGee as a filler until 2023 draft. Kuminga is the new small ball five.

[Big J]

One of the biggest red flags about Wiseman to me is his lack of self awareness. Kuminga is immature in some ways, but you can tell that he thinks beyond himself. You can tell he appreciates where he is at due to having grown up in the Congo. Moody is unusually mature for a 19 year old US born NBA lotto pick.

If we could move Wiseman for a pick that nets us the Baylor kid I'd do it in a heartbeat. He could be a Draymond understudy.

[whatisacenter]

I'm glad some of the posters here are not running the team. To give up on a 19 or 20 year old lottery pick so quickly is not a smart move for an elite organization unless you are landing a guaranteed star in return. Wiseman may be a different story if his knee is not right but it seems way too early to make that assumption. I am still excited about JW's potential and think it is a little silly to judge him off of his short rookie season when they were without Klay and working Wiggins into the system while Oubre never could get it.

also, "archetype" seems to be the new catchy term for players and if they can fit in with the organization and system. I wonder if Steph Curry was the typical type of player who would have been looked at as a he is today when he was drafted. He was seen as a "tweener", too small to play SG and too slow to be a PG. Draymond was seen as a tweener as well. Yes, I am aware that today's game is mostly positionless basketball but maybe, just maybe, you don't need to be a 6'6"-6'9" guy who can guard 1-4 to be a player on the Golden State Warriors.

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I'm glad some of the posters here are not running the team. To give up on a 19 or 20 year old lottery pick so quickly is not a smart move for an elite organization unless you are landing a guaranteed star in return. Wiseman may be a different story if his knee is not right but it seems way too early to make that assumption. I am still excited about JW's potential and think it is a little silly to judge him off of his short rookie season when they were without Klay and working Wiggins into the system while Oubre never could get it.

also, "archetype" seems to be the new catchy term for players and if they can fit in with the organization and system. I wonder if Steph Curry was the typical type of player who would have been looked at as a he is today when he was drafted. He was seen as a "tweener", too small to play SG and too slow to be a PG. Draymond was seen as a tweener as well. Yes, I am aware that today's game is mostly positionless basketball but maybe, just maybe, you don't need to be a 6'6"-6'9" guy who can guard 1-4 to be a player on the Golden State Warriors.

At the moment, Wiseman's pretty raw, but oozing with potential. I think the ideal approach for his development is to slowly integrate him into the offense as Curry, Thompson, and Green are all but past their prime. If he doesn't get to the point either by inconsistency, plagued with injuries, etc. then what? I guess we do have Poole, Moody, and Kuminga to fall back on, but that's not the point.

Look at the list of bigs who turned out to be big-time draft busts and never reached their potential due to chronic injuries that led to subpar season averages or they just weren't hyped up to be the kind of player everyone had expected: Sam Bowie, Shawn Bradley, Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet, Greg Oden. They all were in the top 3 selection of each draft. Hope it's not history repeating itself where we drafted Sam Bowie (Wiseman) when Michael Jordan (LaMelo Ball) was still on the boards.

[Onus]

One of the biggest red flags about Wiseman to me is his lack of self awareness. Kuminga is immature in some ways, but you can tell that he thinks beyond himself. You can tell he appreciates where he is at due to having grown up in the Congo. Moody is unusually mature for a 19 year old US born NBA lotto pick.

If we could move Wiseman for a pick that nets us the Baylor kid I'd do it in a heartbeat. He could be a Draymond understudy.

what do you mean by lack of self awareness?

[Onus]

I'm glad some of the posters here are not running the team. To give up on a 19 or 20 year old lottery pick so quickly is not a smart move for an elite organization unless you are landing a guaranteed star in return. Wiseman may be a different story if his knee is not right but it seems way too early to make that assumption. I am still excited about JW's potential and think it is a little silly to judge him off of his short rookie season when they were without Klay and working Wiggins into the system while Oubre never could get it.

also, "archetype" seems to be the new catchy term for players and if they can fit in with the organization and system. I wonder if Steph Curry was the typical type of player who would have been looked at as a he is today when he was drafted. He was seen as a "tweener", too small to play SG and too slow to be a PG. Draymond was seen as a tweener as well. Yes, I am aware that today's game is mostly positionless basketball but maybe, just maybe, you don't need to be a 6'6"-6'9" guy who can guard 1-4 to be a player on the Golden State Warriors.

At the moment, Wiseman's pretty raw, but oozing with potential. I think the ideal approach for his development is to slowly integrate him into the offense as Curry, Thompson, and Green are all but past their prime. If he doesn't get to the point either by inconsistency, plagued with injuries, etc. then what? I guess we do have Poole, Moody, and Kuminga to fall back on, but that's not the point.

Look at the list of bigs who turned out to be big-time draft busts and never reached their potential due to chronic injuries that led to subpar season averages or they just weren't hyped up to be the kind of player everyone had expected: Sam Bowie, Shawn Bradley, Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet, Greg Oden. They all were in the top 3 selection of each draft. Hope it's not history repeating itself where we drafted Sam Bowie (Wiseman) when Michael Jordan (LaMelo Ball) was still on the boards.

You did not just compare lamelo to mj

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

I'm glad some of the posters here are not running the team. To give up on a 19 or 20 year old lottery pick so quickly is not a smart move for an elite organization unless you are landing a guaranteed star in return. Wiseman may be a different story if his knee is not right but it seems way too early to make that assumption. I am still excited about JW's potential and think it is a little silly to judge him off of his short rookie season when they were without Klay and working Wiggins into the system while Oubre never could get it.

also, "archetype" seems to be the new catchy term for players and if they can fit in with the organization and system. I wonder if Steph Curry was the typical type of player who would have been looked at as a he is today when he was drafted. He was seen as a "tweener", too small to play SG and too slow to be a PG. Draymond was seen as a tweener as well. Yes, I am aware that today's game is mostly positionless basketball but maybe, just maybe, you don't need to be a 6'6"-6'9" guy who can guard 1-4 to be a player on the Golden State Warriors.

At the moment, Wiseman's pretty raw, but oozing with potential. I think the ideal approach for his development is to slowly integrate him into the offense as Curry, Thompson, and Green are all but past their prime. If he doesn't get to the point either by inconsistency, plagued with injuries, etc. then what? I guess we do have Poole, Moody, and Kuminga to fall back on, but that's not the point.

Look at the list of bigs who turned out to be big-time draft busts and never reached their potential due to chronic injuries that led to subpar season averages or they just weren't hyped up to be the kind of player everyone had expected: Sam Bowie, Shawn Bradley, Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet, Greg Oden. They all were in the top 3 selection of each draft. Hope it's not history repeating itself where we drafted Sam Bowie (Wiseman) when Michael Jordan (LaMelo Ball) was still on the boards.

You did not just compare lamelo to mj

LOL, you know what I mean (Hopefully). In the sense of who should have been the obvious pick for us. And he at least addressed what we needed at the time: A potential backup PG. Now, turns out, he's an up and coming young star. But, I know there are red flags with LaMelo with his maturity level and when you got Lavar as his dad trying to run things within our organization.

[whatisacenter]

At the moment, Wiseman's pretty raw, but oozing with potential. I think the ideal approach for his development is to slowly integrate him into the offense as Curry, Thompson, and Green are all but past their prime. If he doesn't get to the point either by inconsistency, plagued with injuries, etc. then what? I guess we do have Poole, Moody, and Kuminga to fall back on, but that's not the point.

Look at the list of bigs who turned out to be big-time draft busts and never reached their potential due to chronic injuries that led to subpar season averages or they just weren't hyped up to be the kind of player everyone had expected: Sam Bowie, Shawn Bradley, Michael Olowakandi, Kwame Brown, Darko Milicic, Hasheem Thabeet, Greg Oden. They all were in the top 3 selection of each draft. Hope it's not history repeating itself where we drafted Sam Bowie (Wiseman) when Michael Jordan (LaMelo Ball) was still on the boards.

You did not just compare lamelo to mj

LOL, you know what I mean (Hopefully). In the sense of who should have been the obvious pick for us. And he at least addressed what we needed at the time: A potential backup PG. Now, turns out, he's an up and coming young star. But, I know there are red flags with LaMelo with his maturity level and when you got Lavar as his dad trying to run things within our organization.

LaMelo has been good and can improve quite a bit but in both play-in games his defense has been terrible and his offense wasn't great when the game slowed down and there weren't as many transition opportunities.