Poole needs to come off bench

[vagelis]

I really doubt Kerr will move Wiggins to the 2. Much more likely Lee or Moody gets to start.

What do you think is the reason Kerr does not want to do this change?

Well for one, the first lineup that you proposed has 0 ability to space the floor.

Yes this is true that this lineup would lose a little bit in 3pt shooting but the defense would be better with Kuminga instead of Poole

[Warriors Analyst]

What do you think is the reason Kerr does not want to do this change?

Well for one, the first lineup that you proposed has 0 ability to space the floor.

Yes this is true that this lineup would lose a little bit in 3pt shooting but the defense would be better with Kuminga instead of Poole

Frankly, who cares? The starting lineup has the 7th best defense on any lineup to play >100 minutes this year. Defense is not a problem for the starting unit, especially not at the expense of offensive firewpower.

[EvanZ]

Poole is a good player. I judged him a little bit more than I should the previous week.
He can score and he has talent.
But I think he is a little bit redundant with Curry in the lineup. The team has won games with Poole in the starting lineup but maybe it would be a little better if he leads the second unit.

Personally I would like to see

Curry-Wiggins-Kuminga-Green-Looney
Kuminga will give better defense with his athleticism and he seems that he can contribute in offense too.

You can't have 3 non-shooters starting. Curry-Lee-Wiggins-Draymond-Kuminga might be the way to go, but Kerr isn't going to go there. He likes Looney too much and it would set up a weird situation with Wiseman coming back as the supposed starting center of the future.

[GunnerWRX]

Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.

[Warriors Analyst]

Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.

The issue is the non-Steph lineups. Kerr has yet to find a combo that works. The recent decision to play Poole without Steph alongside GPII and Green is uh... not good.

[GunnerWRX]

Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.

The issue is the non-Steph lineups. Kerr has yet to find a combo that works. The recent decision to play Poole without Steph alongside GPII and Green is uh... not good.

There are many minutes played with Steph-off and positive +/-, but Poole is not the common denominator.

Poole off the bench is just not the solution *right now*. Maybe by Jan when he has more reps and Klay is back, so he can sub-in when one of Steph/Klay subs out. Will need to find out after Klay is back up to speed. But Poole off the bench is wrong right now.

In addition to -0.7/36 min, without Steph, Poole is only 40% fg and 27.8% 3pt with a 34.9% usage. While I agree his eventual role is the 6th/7th man, we are sort of hiding him now with Steph so he can figure out, *while winning games*!

[clyde21]

Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.

[clyde21]

how someone can have a -19.4 on/off with his minutes on a 13-2 team is mind bending

[clyde21]

this guy is a grenade waiting to pop off and i don't mean that in a good way, we should look to package he and Wiseman while his value around the league is relatively highish.

before people start looking @ these numbers.

or move him to the bench as a designated scorer.

these are the only 2 options with Poole at this point.

[TwoStarz]

Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.

YIKES, the numbers support the eye test.

Poole has been Wiseman level bad but I guess when you just have one anchor as opposed to two, the Chef can still bring you home.

[xdrta+]

Let's see if Poole can step it up against the Pistons with Steph, Draymond, Iguodala, and Porter Jr. all out tonight.

[clyde21]

Let's see if Poole can step it up against the Pistons with Steph, Draymond, Iguodala, and Porter Jr. all out tonight.

maybe he will maybe he won't, but it still won't speak about his broader fit on this team, and especially the starting group.

[EvanZ]

I mean he'll go to the bench when Klay comes back.

[sjballer03]

I mean he'll go to the bench when Klay comes back.

That's that Wiseman Agenda!

[GunnerWRX]

Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.

Your stat of Poole -2 net rating is w/ Steph off-court? Or overall for the whole season?

Because Poole is +7.6 net rating for the season.

[clyde21]

that's a different net rating, this is just basic ORTG - DRTG regardless of lineup.

[GunnerWRX]

that's a different net rating, this is just basic ORTG - DRTG regardless of lineup.

Can you show how you got -2.0? Source?

Poole is +7.6 below from nba.com before Detroit. Or are you talking about some other stat?

https://go.nba.com/ffuk

[GunnerWRX]

Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?

[clyde21]

Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?

yes.

[GunnerWRX]

Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?

yes.

Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.