ImageImageImageImageImage

Poole needs to come off bench

Moderators: Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair, floppymoose

vagelis
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,535
And1: 579
Joined: Jan 04, 2015

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#101 » by vagelis » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:54 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
vagelis wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
I really doubt Kerr will move Wiggins to the 2. Much more likely Lee or Moody gets to start.


What do you think is the reason Kerr does not want to do this change?


Well for one, the first lineup that you proposed has 0 ability to space the floor.


Yes this is true that this lineup would lose a little bit in 3pt shooting but the defense would be better with Kuminga instead of Poole
Warriors Analyst
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,114
And1: 2,039
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#102 » by Warriors Analyst » Mon Nov 15, 2021 6:58 pm

vagelis wrote:
Warriors Analyst wrote:
vagelis wrote:
What do you think is the reason Kerr does not want to do this change?


Well for one, the first lineup that you proposed has 0 ability to space the floor.


Yes this is true that this lineup would lose a little bit in 3pt shooting but the defense would be better with Kuminga instead of Poole


Frankly, who cares? The starting lineup has the 7th best defense on any lineup to play >100 minutes this year. Defense is not a problem for the starting unit, especially not at the expense of offensive firewpower.
User avatar
EvanZ
General Manager
Posts: 8,802
And1: 1,780
Joined: Apr 06, 2011

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#103 » by EvanZ » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:48 pm

vagelis wrote:Poole is a good player. I judged him a little bit more than I should the previous week.
He can score and he has talent.
But I think he is a little bit redundant with Curry in the lineup. The team has won games with Poole in the starting lineup but maybe it would be a little better if he leads the second unit.

Personally I would like to see

Curry-Wiggins-Kuminga-Green-Looney
Kuminga will give better defense with his athleticism and he seems that he can contribute in offense too.



You can't have 3 non-shooters starting. Curry-Lee-Wiggins-Draymond-Kuminga might be the way to go, but Kerr isn't going to go there. He likes Looney too much and it would set up a weird situation with Wiseman coming back as the supposed starting center of the future.
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#104 » by GunnerWRX » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:49 pm

Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.
Warriors Analyst
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,114
And1: 2,039
Joined: May 16, 2005

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#105 » by Warriors Analyst » Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:59 pm

GunnerWRX wrote:Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.


The issue is the non-Steph lineups. Kerr has yet to find a combo that works. The recent decision to play Poole without Steph alongside GPII and Green is uh... not good.
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#106 » by GunnerWRX » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:05 pm

Warriors Analyst wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:Curry off-court + Poole on-court
Min = 163
+/- per 36 = -0.7

Poole by himself doesn't make the bench that hot. -0.7/36 min is pretty bad given that we are +13.3 over 13 games.

Like someone just said, the starters' defense has been great *despite* having Poole and Curry together.

Can we just put this to rest until Klay is back?

Folks who wants Poole on the bench *right now* need to provide better analysis on who Poole should play with off the bench, because your suggestion would be coughing up leads made by Steph with Poole's negative net rating without Steph.


The issue is the non-Steph lineups. Kerr has yet to find a combo that works. The recent decision to play Poole without Steph alongside GPII and Green is uh... not good.


There are many minutes played with Steph-off and positive +/-, but Poole is not the common denominator.

Poole off the bench is just not the solution *right now*. Maybe by Jan when he has more reps and Klay is back, so he can sub-in when one of Steph/Klay subs out. Will need to find out after Klay is back up to speed. But Poole off the bench is wrong right now.

In addition to -0.7/36 min, without Steph, Poole is only 40% fg and 27.8% 3pt with a 34.9% usage. While I agree his eventual role is the 6th/7th man, we are sort of hiding him now with Steph so he can figure out, *while winning games*!

Image
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#107 » by clyde21 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:06 pm

Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#108 » by clyde21 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:09 pm

how someone can have a -19.4 on/off with his minutes on a 13-2 team is mind bending
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#109 » by clyde21 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:15 pm

this guy is a grenade waiting to pop off and i don't mean that in a good way, we should look to package he and Wiseman while his value around the league is relatively highish.

before people start looking @ these numbers.

or move him to the bench as a designated scorer.

these are the only 2 options with Poole at this point.
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
TwoStarz
Veteran
Posts: 2,581
And1: 1,574
Joined: Apr 20, 2014

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#110 » by TwoStarz » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:20 pm

clyde21 wrote:Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.

YIKES, the numbers support the eye test.

Poole has been Wiseman level bad but I guess when you just have one anchor as opposed to two, the Chef can still bring you home.
xdrta+
Head Coach
Posts: 6,232
And1: 4,470
Joined: Jun 18, 2018

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#111 » by xdrta+ » Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:01 pm

Let's see if Poole can step it up against the Pistons with Steph, Draymond, Iguodala, and Porter Jr. all out tonight.
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#112 » by clyde21 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:59 pm

xdrta+ wrote:Let's see if Poole can step it up against the Pistons with Steph, Draymond, Iguodala, and Porter Jr. all out tonight.


maybe he will maybe he won't, but it still won't speak about his broader fit on this team, and especially the starting group.
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
User avatar
EvanZ
General Manager
Posts: 8,802
And1: 1,780
Joined: Apr 06, 2011

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#113 » by EvanZ » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:54 pm

I mean he'll go to the bench when Klay comes back.
sjballer03
Senior
Posts: 532
And1: 401
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
 

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#114 » by sjballer03 » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:31 pm

EvanZ wrote:I mean he'll go to the bench when Klay comes back.


That's that Wiseman Agenda!
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#115 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:32 am

clyde21 wrote:Net Rating

GP +47
Loon +27
Steph +22
OPJ +22
Iggy +19
Dray +18
Bjelica +18
Lee +11
JTA +10
Wig +6
Poole -2

only player in regular rotation that is in the negatives

11th on the team in BPM
15th in VORP
11th in WS/48
10th TS%

with....DRUM DROLL....-19.4 on/off...dead last on the team by a strong margin for anyone that gets any serious minutes.

absolute travesty that he's still in the starting lineup at this point, but we're 13-2 so it doesn't really matter but best bet it will haunt us at some point.


Your stat of Poole -2 net rating is w/ Steph off-court? Or overall for the whole season?

Because Poole is +7.6 net rating for the season.

Image
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#116 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:10 am

that's a different net rating, this is just basic ORTG - DRTG regardless of lineup.
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#117 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:16 am

clyde21 wrote:that's a different net rating, this is just basic ORTG - DRTG regardless of lineup.


Can you show how you got -2.0? Source?

Poole is +7.6 below from nba.com before Detroit. Or are you talking about some other stat?

https://go.nba.com/ffuk
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#118 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:23 am

Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?
User avatar
clyde21
RealGM
Posts: 52,369
And1: 61,417
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
   

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#119 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:24 am

GunnerWRX wrote:Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?


yes.
#VivaPalestina#VivaColumbia#VivaNaija

#LoadedLions #CronosChimpClub
GunnerWRX
Senior
Posts: 508
And1: 263
Joined: Mar 26, 2021

Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#120 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:25 am

clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?


yes.


Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.

Return to Golden State Warriors