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Poole needs to come off bench

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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#121 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:33 am

GunnerWRX wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:Oh you are using the bbref ORtg - Drtg.

Is that right?


yes.


Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.


did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#122 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:36 am

clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
yes.


Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.


did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.


I am just pointing it out since you highlighted -2.0

Of course Klay was much better.

Stat needs to be used in context for sure.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#123 » by a8bil » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:42 am

Well....Poole has been THE reason why GSW has won at least four games this year, including tonight. So, I'm just going to say that I take these so-called advanced stats and your opinions, with a grain of salt.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#124 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:43 am

clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
yes.


Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.


did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.

Perhaps oddly 14 - 2 is the stat which matters to me, the 14th win one in which Poole played a large part with 4 of the 8 best GSW players absent.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#125 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:44 am

GunnerWRX wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:
Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.


did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.


I am just pointing it out since you highlighted -2.0

Of course Klay was much better.

Stat needs to be used in context for sure.


i highlighted it red to show that it's negative, it's how I do negative numbers...I highlighted his entire statistical profile.

are you disagreeing with these metrics?
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#126 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:45 am

michaelm wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
GunnerWRX wrote:
Klay was -2 during the 18-19 season as well. Just saying.


did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.

Perhaps oddly 14 - 2 is the stat which matters to me,


yea, it's easy ignoring flaws when you're 14-2, just don't act surprised when it starts being an issue.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#127 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 2:54 am

clyde21 wrote:
michaelm wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
did he have a -19.6 On/Off?

this isn't about a single stat, this is about a trend of stats the clearly showcase Poole has been a massive liability so far this yr.

Perhaps oddly 14 - 2 is the stat which matters to me,


yea, it's easy ignoring flaws when you're 14-2, just don't act surprised when it starts being an issue.

What experience has taught me is that you will carp about one thing or another in most game threads, as you did during their 73 win regular season, and in the following year when GSW were quite likely the best NBA team of all time.

Poole is a useful player who doesn’t at this time mesh well with Curry and Green, which is fine, he can be a very valuable 6th man when some guy called Klay Thompson who does mesh well with them returns. I also trust Kerr to manage him over the whole season; his method would seem to be positive reinforcement rather than carping, and I strongly suspect while resting Curry and Green from time to time is a good idea in itself tonight was partly about giving Poole the reins, which seemed to work fairly well.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#128 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:06 am

me: Poole needs to go to the bench to be a 6th man

you: you complain about everything! Poole just needs to go to the bench and be a 6th man!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#129 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:17 am

clyde21 wrote:me: Poole needs to go to the bench to be a 6th man

you: you complain about everything! Poole just needs to go to the bench and be a 6th man!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was responding to you continuing to carp about him when he just played a very good game in which he wasn’t a bench player, and made a point about your carping in general which you haven’t refuted and can’t refute. He is early in his career and only just breaking out, and few players are fully formed at the time of their emergence. I consider it likely Kerr and the coaching staff can work him into playing better with the starters in any case, not that this is any easy thing to do, and the imperative seems to be to not stifle him/mess with his confidence at this stage.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#130 » by a8bil » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:35 am

What this game shows is that when Poole is allowed to be something more than a complementary player trying to figure out how to be a positive influence in the Curry-Green centric offense, he can be lethal. I think he needs more run in this context to work on his ball distribution. But man, is he dynamic scoring...almost Steph like in his ability to attack the hoop.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#131 » by xdrta+ » Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:54 am

a8bil wrote:What this game shows is that when Poole is allowed to be something more than a complementary player trying to figure out how to be a positive influence in the Curry-Green centric offense, he can be lethal. I think he needs more run in this context to work on his ball distribution. But man, is he dynamic scoring...almost Steph like in his ability to attack the hoop.


He is that. I think he'll be lethal as a 6th man, but I see no problem with him starting until Klay gets back.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#132 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:24 am

xdrta+ wrote:
a8bil wrote:What this game shows is that when Poole is allowed to be something more than a complementary player trying to figure out how to be a positive influence in the Curry-Green centric offense, he can be lethal. I think he needs more run in this context to work on his ball distribution. But man, is he dynamic scoring...almost Steph like in his ability to attack the hoop.


He is that. I think he'll be lethal as a 6th man, but I see no problem with him starting until Klay gets back.

No. it is terrible for the team to have someone who is a capable iso scorer early in his 3rd year in the NBA and can operate independently of Curry and Green, and he deserves trenchant criticism.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#133 » by SpreeChokeJob » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:26 am

I rather have him coming off the bench and having the Porter start. Porter at the 4 is better shooter, more reliable all around, and a great rebounder. In a way Porter will also simulate having Klay in the starting lineup because they will play in somewhat the same way.

Poole should be in the second unit because he would be able to operate more freely and score more easier against other bench players. He can learn on the job against other benches and gain the experience vs being more restricted playing in the starting lineup. And ultimately that’s where he will return once Klay comes back, so the more reps he gets the more he can learn to lead the second unit.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#134 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:33 am

michaelm wrote:
clyde21 wrote:me: Poole needs to go to the bench to be a 6th man

you: you complain about everything! Poole just needs to go to the bench and be a 6th man!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was responding to you continuing to carp about him when he just played a very good game in which he wasn’t a bench player, and made a point about your carping in general which you haven’t refuted and can’t refute. He is early in his career and only just breaking out, and few players are fully formed at the time of their emergence. I consider it likely Kerr and the coaching staff can work him into playing better with the starters in any case, not that this is any easy thing to do, and the imperative seems to be to not stifle him/mess with his confidence at this stage.


him having a good game tonight is irrelevant, but of course you guys will use it as ANY sort of proof that he's a good fit among the starting lineup when Steph/Dray were MIA tonight.

he's a terrible fit with the starting unit, that's indisputable, the stats have been posted in this thread repeatedly. whether you want to admit it or not is your own problem.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#135 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:36 am

clyde21 wrote:
michaelm wrote:
clyde21 wrote:me: Poole needs to go to the bench to be a 6th man

you: you complain about everything! Poole just needs to go to the bench and be a 6th man!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was responding to you continuing to carp about him when he just played a very good game in which he wasn’t a bench player, and made a point about your carping in general which you haven’t refuted and can’t refute. He is early in his career and only just breaking out, and few players are fully formed at the time of their emergence. I consider it likely Kerr and the coaching staff can work him into playing better with the starters in any case, not that this is any easy thing to do, and the imperative seems to be to not stifle him/mess with his confidence at this stage.


him having a good game tonight is irrelevant, but of course you guys will use it as ANY sort of proof that he's a good fit among the starting lineup when Steph/Dray were MIA tonight.

he's a terrible fit with the starting unit, that's indisputable, the stats have been posted in this thread repeatedly. whether you want to admit it or not is your own problem.

Absolutely no-one is saying he should be the starting SG when Klay is back, which is reputedly fairly imminent. This does not mean at 16 games into his 3rd season he can never be a starter with Curry and Green, and I personally would leave him where he is unless and until he starts costing them games, and let him develop rather than demote him and mess with his confidence, which is I believe what they are doing. Porter might well be a better fit just now but couldn't play starters minutes, and I don't see the point of changing things just for a few weeks anyway. Until the coaching staff start getting things wrong which they haven't been doing overly as far as I have observed this year I might leave it to them rather than petitioning them to join this forum and follow your advice.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#136 » by Scoots1994 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:24 pm

clyde21 wrote:
michaelm wrote:
clyde21 wrote:me: Poole needs to go to the bench to be a 6th man

you: you complain about everything! Poole just needs to go to the bench and be a 6th man!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I was responding to you continuing to carp about him when he just played a very good game in which he wasn’t a bench player, and made a point about your carping in general which you haven’t refuted and can’t refute. He is early in his career and only just breaking out, and few players are fully formed at the time of their emergence. I consider it likely Kerr and the coaching staff can work him into playing better with the starters in any case, not that this is any easy thing to do, and the imperative seems to be to not stifle him/mess with his confidence at this stage.


him having a good game tonight is irrelevant, but of course you guys will use it as ANY sort of proof that he's a good fit among the starting lineup when Steph/Dray were MIA tonight.

he's a terrible fit with the starting unit, that's indisputable, the stats have been posted in this thread repeatedly. whether you want to admit it or not is your own problem.


Do you believe Poole can improve his play?
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#137 » by clyde21 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:46 pm

Scoots1994 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
michaelm wrote:I was responding to you continuing to carp about him when he just played a very good game in which he wasn’t a bench player, and made a point about your carping in general which you haven’t refuted and can’t refute. He is early in his career and only just breaking out, and few players are fully formed at the time of their emergence. I consider it likely Kerr and the coaching staff can work him into playing better with the starters in any case, not that this is any easy thing to do, and the imperative seems to be to not stifle him/mess with his confidence at this stage.


him having a good game tonight is irrelevant, but of course you guys will use it as ANY sort of proof that he's a good fit among the starting lineup when Steph/Dray were MIA tonight.

he's a terrible fit with the starting unit, that's indisputable, the stats have been posted in this thread repeatedly. whether you want to admit it or not is your own problem.


Do you believe Poole can improve his play?


what's the point of this question? of course he can improve his play. anyone in the NBA can improve, especially younger players. still irrelevant to his overall fit with the starting unit.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#138 » by michaelm » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:04 pm

clyde21 wrote:
Scoots1994 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
him having a good game tonight is irrelevant, but of course you guys will use it as ANY sort of proof that he's a good fit among the starting lineup when Steph/Dray were MIA tonight.

he's a terrible fit with the starting unit, that's indisputable, the stats have been posted in this thread repeatedly. whether you want to admit it or not is your own problem.


Do you believe Poole can improve his play?


what's the point of this question? of course he can improve his play. anyone in the NBA can improve, especially younger players. still irrelevant to his overall fit with the starting unit.

So your plan for him to improve his fit with the starting unit is for him not to play with them ?. It looks very much as though Kerr's plan differs from yours.

The guy is a match winner as he just demonstrated, and what he can eventually do is far from fixed at this point in time. I wasn't following GSW early in Klay's career, I boarded the GSW bandwagon with Andrew Bogut, but I gather even Klay was clunky early on. I and others are happy to have a player such as Poole to support, particularly given the team drafted him and are developing him after acquiring him with a pick quite distant from the lottery picks.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#139 » by EvanZ » Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:01 am

Poole is basically Monta 2.0 or to be fair, maybe Monta 0.5. It's kind of funny how similar they are and how similar the fan reaction is turning out to be. It's not really an issue now (much like Monta was not an issue on We Believe), but if this ever becomes "Poole's team" after the big 3 are done, there will definitely be more scrutiny.

As of right now it's hard to see Poole earning a max deal. If he's paid appropriately I don't mind him sticking around, but it's a concern that he's a small guard that doesn't really look to distribute the ball much and takes wild shots.
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Re: Poole needs to come off bench 

Post#140 » by HiRez » Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:18 pm

Meh. Klay's gonna be back pretty soon anyway and Poole will find himself coming off the bench along with Wiseman. Poole makes me uneasy sometimes but you can't deny his ability to stack points on the board makes a big difference.

Wiseman, Bjelica, Porter, Poole, Lee, GPII, JTA, Iguodala is a hell of a bench mob, especially if they mix some starters in.

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