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Wiseman will make us worse

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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#101 » by and1GS » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:47 pm

shazam_guy wrote:The "pro-Wiseman" crowd, so-called, is not saying he's going to be anything particularly, just that we don't know yet and can't know until he's had coaching and a chance to get used to the NBA game. That's not the same as claiming he's going to be another Bosh or Anthony Davis. The most any of the "pro-W" crowd have said that I've seen is that he has potential and we want to see what it might be. It's the anti-Wiseman crowd who are saying things like "We wasted a draft pick" and "He's never going to be any good" and "trade him now before his value completely craters." Which is pretty funny, because also they keep saying things like "Everyone knows that he's a failed pick". Everybody except actual NBA GMs, apparently.

I'm going to be very amused when he's actually playing and people have something to talk about besides building defensive walls around their previous hot takes. The over-analysis here on every Wiseman appearance is going to be FIERCE.


Exactly. Overall...can we shut the **** up about 'agendas' :lol:

Sometimes people form opinions based on the information they have available to them right now. It's not a witch hunt. I think some folks like to double down on the same old, tired takes instead of being reasonable, but whatever.

I do think Wiseman will 'make us worse' when he comes back - but he will do that in less than 10 mpg. Kuminga also largely makes us worse 50% of the time in his limited minutes. But when he's on, he's fantastic and a difference maker. That's what you look for in developing young guys - can they lock in at least part of the time to be a contributor. And yes, I do think Wiseman can do that this year. No, I don't think he's lighting the world on fire as a championship starting 5. If you think that's the #WisemanAgenda idk what to tell you because it's basically what everyone else other than a few posters has said about the guy. He can be effective, will have growing pains and is a longer term project given his age/experience/position.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#102 » by Optimisticwarrior » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:30 pm

I really really hope Wiseman comes back strong and shuts these bsing posters up :banghead: And yes, this is my agenda.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#103 » by bay2hk » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:01 am

It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#104 » by Upperclass » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:17 am

ILOVEIT wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Wiseman seems like the only player whose wired like Wiseman on the whole roster. He isn't gritty, or confident, or carefree or tough. He seems to have alot of Damion Jones and Pat McCaw in his personality. That alone will pose an issue in terms of fit if things aren't constantly going his way. Best plan of action is to build him up to show enough for him to be traded in season. He's a poor fit skillwise and personality wise.


Huh...not sure about that. How about Wiggins? Wiggins looks like he wouldn't fit either.... seems aloof at times...almost shy. Yet here he is...thriving with the Warriors.

Wiseman seems like a really nice sincere young cat....I haven't seen anything to doubt that.


Wiggins is/was apathetic. He knew his talent, knew how HE wanted to play and did just that until he learned how to play in a system.. which seems to have just happened. Wiseman doesn't seem to have confidence in his own basketball abilities, where to be or what to do.. that seems difficult to overcome for a 7' dude who is supposed to battle against other guys of that size who will generally be tougher and more confident.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#105 » by The411 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:15 am

Upperclass wrote:
ILOVEIT wrote:
Upperclass wrote:Wiseman seems like the only player whose wired like Wiseman on the whole roster. He isn't gritty, or confident, or carefree or tough. He seems to have alot of Damion Jones and Pat McCaw in his personality. That alone will pose an issue in terms of fit if things aren't constantly going his way. Best plan of action is to build him up to show enough for him to be traded in season. He's a poor fit skillwise and personality wise.


Huh...not sure about that. How about Wiggins? Wiggins looks like he wouldn't fit either.... seems aloof at times...almost shy. Yet here he is...thriving with the Warriors.

Wiseman seems like a really nice sincere young cat....I haven't seen anything to doubt that.


Wiggins is/was apathetic. He knew his talent, knew how HE wanted to play and did just that until he learned how to play in a system.. which seems to have just happened. Wiseman doesn't seem to have confidence in his own basketball abilities, where to be or what to do.. that seems difficult to overcome for a 7' dude who is supposed to battle against other guys of that size who will generally be tougher and more confident.


He was 19 playing having played college 3 games in about year's worth of time before he was drafted. Not everyone has Kuminga's intensity and even Kuminga looks passive at times.

Big men almost always take longer to develop.

One of the biggest weaknesses for GS is the lack of an athletic center with size. Looney is smallish and not very athletic. Bjelica is not an above the rim player either. Draymond is also a 6'7 center. He's not a sky walker either.

Wiseman gives the Warriors a guy who can live way above the rim and easily do so. A shot changer simply by his presence and wingspan. The only other center that the Warriors have had blessed with his type of physical gifts was Wilt.

Last year was chaotic because there were extreme roster inconsistencies, It's the reason why it took near the end for the Warriors too realize that Oubre was useless, Wannamaker had no business on the court, Kent Bazemore was mercurial and typically a mess. Eric Pashall was run out of town for completely not fitting. Jordan Bell is a 15th man at best.

The Rotation was (using listed positions)
PG: Curry/Mulder/GP II/Wannamaker/Mannion
SG: Poole/Lee/JTA
SF: Wiggins/Oubre/Bazemore
PF: Green/Paschall
C: Looney/Wiseman/Bell

As we can see the PG choices outside of step were poor. Poole was literally sent to the G-League midseason to work on his game. Lee and JTA were nice pieces but more like end of the bench guys playing 7th and 8th slots off the bench.

Wiggins was good last year. Oubre was virtually unplayable at times. Bazemore was poor. Pachall did very little as did Bell.

Wiseman was put into a bad situation in terms of being to work him into the lineup and get him to play within the system.
Sure he looked lost and had difficulties, but he also was able to do things that very few players in the league can do.

Given all the spacing the Warriors have and the scoring and shooting options, Wiseman should have a field day with mismatches and there will be a lot of dunking occurring and it doesn't require him to do too much.

The really scary part is if he gets things down and starts to fit in, the Warriors will be nearly unbeatable. You will see it in spurts this year but 2022-2023 will be an absolute nightmare for the rest of the league. The Warriors will have way too many options.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#106 » by ILOVEIT » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:33 am

It's all good news really....just get him back healthy and let's figure it out Mr. Kerr :)
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#107 » by Scoots1994 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 pm

As a baseline, I didn't really love the Wiseman pick, but I could see that the potential was incredible. At this point he was just a little worse than I expected last year (history of teenage bigs is bleak in rookie years). Now we just need to wait and see what he's like after a year as a pro. Another thing to keep in mind relative to history, bigs don't tend to hit their stride until they are in their mid 20s.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#108 » by GSWFan1994 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:26 pm

bay2hk wrote:It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete


I think it's just the team being extra careful bringing him along... plus, it's not like we are all expecting him to play major minutes right away, or even the team needing him to play like that.

As far as I know, there's no news about him having setbacks since the surgery so far.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#109 » by and1GS » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:42 pm

bay2hk wrote:It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete


Is Jaren Jackson Jr. also Bagley 2.0?
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#110 » by wco81 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:48 pm

JJJ helped the Grizzlies come back and beat the Jazz in Utah last night.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#111 » by GunnerWRX » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:30 pm

Maybe our team will only be +10 net rating when he's on the court. Making us worse from the current +12.9 average. Bring out the pitchforks!
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#112 » by marthafokker » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:35 pm

I just want him to be a smarter McGee and build his skills along the way.

McGee is killing it in Phoenix with a coach/pg knowing how to use him. I just want Wiseman doing McGee things off the bench this year. Not HOF crap people think he should be to be successful.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#113 » by EvanZ » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:06 pm

marthafokker wrote:I just want him to be a smarter McGee and build his skills along the way.

McGee is killing it in Phoenix with a coach/pg knowing how to use him. I just want Wiseman doing McGee things off the bench this year. Not HOF crap people think he should be to be successful.


JaVale is the same Draft class as Steph. Do we have to wait that long for Wiseman? :lol:
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#114 » by bay2hk » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:25 pm

and1GS wrote:
bay2hk wrote:It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete


Is Jaren Jackson Jr. also Bagley 2.0?


Not a good comparison. Luka was picked #3 after bagley when it was clear Luka was the best player in that draft. Lamelo was clearly the best player in that draft and had more potential than wiseman.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#115 » by TB » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:53 pm

Out of curiosity I went to see how many minutes Wiseman played with a lineup of players on the team this year...

Excluded minutes from: Oubre, Paschall, Wanamaker, Baze, Bell, Chriss, Mulder, Nico, Smiley....

15 minutes. He had 15 minutes with Curry, Green, Wiggins, Lee, Poole, JTA, Loon (+23 net just for the laugh)

He only had 120 minutes all season alongside Steph where Oubre wasn't also on the court.

My point is not that he would have had a good season last year if he played more with our current core, he wouldn't have. I'm just noting that we will get to see him this year in a position much more set up to succeed. It's going to be fun to watch him, Kuminga, and Moody grow in a situation where we don't desperately need anything from them in order to be successful.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#116 » by shazam_guy » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:16 pm

So because a guy has a knee injury and isn't coming back as soon as one fan think he should, he's in danger of becoming a failed wannabe rapper?

Hey, James, do you even rap, bro?

Sure, whatever. Keep the measured, reasonable takes coming.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#117 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:11 am

Can't tell what Wiseman can be because he hasn't played.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#118 » by shazam_guy » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:55 am

I don't think Wiggins is apathetic. He's just Canadian.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#119 » by Chris Porter's Hair » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:36 am

bay2hk wrote:It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete

Do you have any pointer or reference suggesting Wiseman has ever considered being a rapper? Because otherwise that comment sounds pretty... well, please tell me you have some reason to think he wants to be a rapper.
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Re: Wiseman will make us worse 

Post#120 » by Upperclass » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:17 am

Chris Porter's Hair wrote:
bay2hk wrote:It still boggles my mind wiseman is not close to returning. I said he’ll be oden 2.0 before we drafted him and now he looks more like bagley 2.0. This dude need to focus on basketball and not be another fail wannabe rapper athlete

Do you have any pointer or reference suggesting Wiseman has ever considered being a rapper? Because otherwise that comment sounds pretty... well, please tell me you have some reason to think he wants to be a rapper.


Because.. he.. raps.. ? https://www.reddit.com/r/warriors/comments/qxwysj/james_wiseman_dropped_a_new_track_on_soundcloud/

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