Vent: Bill Simmons on Kuminga

[and1GS]

Mini rant incoming. I'm not sure how many here tune into the Ringer podcasts, but I tend to be an avid listener. I've listened to Bill Simmons' podcast less and less, but started back up again right before the draft. Putting aside the half hour 'State of the Celtics' discussion in each episode, this guy flagrantly hates Kuminga and it's becoming extremely grating.

He has:

-Said a smart team like the warriors would never draft Kuminga
-Said the warriors drafted Kuminga to trade him immediately following the pick
-Frequently oozes over paltry rookie numbers while alluding to Kuminga being a bad pick (despite him not playing)
-Called Davion Mitchell a great pick (while ignoring his production) because he saw one preseason game where he guarded another rookie; ignores Kuminga potential and points to his lack of PT for why he was a bad pick
-On the most recent pod, says Franz Wagner was the obvious pick; emphasizes that Franz has lit the NBA on fire and would have been the perfect warrior....Franz is getting 32 mpg, 12+ shots on the second worst team in the entire NBA

It's OK to say other rookies are doing well, but the goalpost moving is just ridiculous. Davion and Franz have incredibly different situations and frankly each of them should be graded on different criteria. Or you at least have to mention your 'steal of the draft' Suggs is taking a dump out there - which again, is ok! These guys are teenage rookies! And it has been like 13 games...what do we really know at this point?

The zero sum **** is just killing me. Kuminga has looked fantastic in his 'extended' playing time lately, but I'm sure Bill will just complain we didn't take Duarte over him for the next year. Then act like none of this discussion happened once Jonathan has a steadier 15+ mpg role.

Bonus rant: Jonathan Tjarks gives me hives. He toes the line on analytics, but generally goes off feel and passes it off as fact. In the last episode he said Mobley had the upside of 'best player in the league, first team all defense, average a triple double' like jesus **** christ can we calm down a bit?

[WarriorGM]

Simmons might as well be BSPN. I don't hear anything resembling independent thought from anyone in media which is what one would expect from truly independent sources.

Funny, what you are feeling is what I feel about what they say about Steph.

That there is not one single person that I can point to in media that is willing to say or argue that Stephen Curry is the greatest player in the game or that the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season is enough to tell me they are all BS.

[GSWFan1994]

I used to like Bill Simmons when he was at ESPN and Grantland and used to write. I found him funny & entertaining.

Now at the Ringer... I've never listened to his podcasts. Not a single one. Simply didn't care for them.

As for his opinions on teams, players, etc... that's just the way he is, all over the place.

As for Tjarks, he's similar to other guys who work with stats, which always reminds me of this classic quote:

“Some people use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts—for support rather than for illumination." (Andrew Lang)

Parcimony is needed when reading those people.

[a8bil]

I used to like Bill Simmons when he was at ESPN and Grantland and used to write. I found him funny & entertaining.

Now at the Ringer... I've never listened to his podcasts. Not a single one. Simply didn't care for them.

As for his opinions on teams, players, etc... that's just the way he is, all over the place.

As for Tjarks, he's similar to other guys who work with stats, which always reminds me of this classic quote:

“Some people use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts—for support rather than for illumination." (Andrew Lang)

Parcimony is needed when reading those people.

Great quote...!

[xdrta+]

Simmons might as well be BSPN. I don't hear anything resembling independent thought from anyone in media which is what one would expect from truly independent sources.

Funny, what you are feeling is what I feel about what they say about Steph.

That there is not one single person that I can point to in media that is willing to say or argue that Stephen Curry is the greatest player in the game or that the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season is enough to tell me they are all BS.

"the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season"

Of course, you're probably the only person in the country to believe that, so that should be taken into account.

[WarriorGM]

Simmons might as well be BSPN. I don't hear anything resembling independent thought from anyone in media which is what one would expect from truly independent sources.

Funny, what you are feeling is what I feel about what they say about Steph.

That there is not one single person that I can point to in media that is willing to say or argue that Stephen Curry is the greatest player in the game or that the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season is enough to tell me they are all BS.

"the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season"

Of course, you're probably the only person in the country to believe that, so that should be taken into account.

The core of a multiple time finals and championship team that holds the regular season wins record is getting back together at last and they don't have anyone favoring them? Not one soul? Instead they all think Utah is a better bet?

What silly logic. You'll have to explain it to me.

[clyde21]

i agree that Franz is a great fit on the surface so no qualms there, but that doesn't mean Kuminga will not have a role here if he's developed for and within that role (4/5 switch guy).

[shazam_guy]

WGM: The core is not back together. Thompson was months away in the pre-season, and still isn't playing. The Ws didn't make the playoffs last year despite Curry having an MVP-caliber year. It was not disrespectful or anti-Curry to doubt the Warriors could win it all this year. And, in fact, we have a long way to go to prove that the season start is a real indication of this team's long-term capabilities.

The people bitching about Curry's early-season shooting are silly, but it's equally silly to complain the press is unfair because they didn't make the Warriors preseason favorites. The only known-quantity addition at season's beginning was Iguodala, who is after all pretty freakin' old. He's been great, and the team's done great, but lots of us long-time fans here have been happily surprised at how well the often-injured vets we picked up have been playing. Maybe the media wasn't so out of line?

It sounds like you're saying that any time Curry walks out on the floor for us, we should be considered the favorites to win the championship, and as good as Curry is, that's just not reasonable. There's no one in the league -- not LeBron, not Steph, not Giannis, not current MVP Jokic -- of whom that would be true, and in comparable situations, wouldn't have been true for Jordan, Kobe, or any number of other all-time greats. Basketball is a team game. Even Wilt Chamberlain, the most dominant player of any era in the NBA, only won one championship with Philadelphia when it was his team.

Oh, and since you complained (although fairly politely) about me entering a topic and not answering your thread-question, you seem to have once more entered a topic (about Bill Simmons, Kuminga, and rookies) and tried to bend it into being about Curry.

[WarriorGM]

WGM: The core is not back together. Thompson was months away in the pre-season, and still isn't playing. The Ws didn't make the playoffs last year despite Curry having an MVP-caliber year. It was not disrespectful or anti-Curry to doubt the Warriors could win it all this year. And, in fact, we have a long way to go to prove that the season start is a real indication of this team's long-term capabilities.

The people bitching about Curry's early-season shooting are silly, but it's equally silly to complain the press is unfair because they didn't make the Warriors preseason favorites. The only known-quantity addition at season's beginning was Iguodala, who is after all pretty freakin' old. He's been great, and the team's done great, but lots of us long-time fans here have been happily surprised at how well the often-injured vets we picked up have been playing. Maybe the media wasn't so out of line?

It sounds like you're saying that any time Curry walks out on the floor for us, we should be considered the favorites to win the championship, and as good as Curry is, that's just not reasonable. There's no one in the league -- not LeBron, not Steph, not Giannis, not current MVP Jokic -- of whom that would be true, and in comparable situations, wouldn't have been true for Jordan, Kobe, or any number of other all-time greats. Basketball is a team game. Even Wilt Chamberlain, the most dominant player of any era in the NBA, only won one championship with Philadelphia when it was his team.

Oh, and since you complained (although fairly politely) about me entering a topic and not answering your thread-question, you seem to have once more entered a topic (about Bill Simmons, Kuminga, and rookies) and tried to bend it into being about Curry.

The 2015 Warriors won without a max player. Klay's injury basically meant playing without a max player. If 2015 is a guide it suggests the Warriors can still win.

Without Wiseman and Oubre the Warriors won at a 60-win pace as the lineup data predicted they would.

In the play-in the Warriors were basically one shot away from making the playoffs. Imagine if a player in Wiseman's or Oubre's place could have given that little oomph. Then the Warriors would have been in the playoffs and we saw last year that it was pretty open.

But if you don't want me to keep going and going in circles with you about this I suggest we leave it at that.

[shazam_guy]

I'M not going in circles, I'm just pointing out a certain pattern. The circles are part of the pattern, and the pattern is, "Everything is about Curry not being appreciated", even when that's not what's being discussed.

[shazam_guy]

I'M not going in circles, I'm just pointing out a certain pattern. The circles are part of the pattern, and the pattern is, "Everything is about Curry not being appreciated", even when that's not what's being discussed.

I'd be happy to engage on whethe the 2015 Warriors team versus the 2021-22 team is a reasonable comparison or not as far as predicting this year's championship winner, but it's not really about Kuminga and Bill Simmons, is it? Please note, however, since PREDICTIONS are what you were talking about, that not many in the press had the 2015 Warriors projected for the championship either. It's easy enough to check -- most of those pre-season guesses are still available, and I haven't found one yet that said the Ws would win it all.

[michaelm]

Simmons might as well be BSPN. I don't hear anything resembling independent thought from anyone in media which is what one would expect from truly independent sources.

Funny, what you are feeling is what I feel about what they say about Steph.

That there is not one single person that I can point to in media that is willing to say or argue that Stephen Curry is the greatest player in the game or that the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season is enough to tell me they are all BS.

"the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season"

Of course, you're probably the only person in the country to believe that, so that should be taken into account.

The core of a multiple time finals and championship team that holds the regular season wins record is getting back together at last and they don't have anyone favoring them? Not one soul? Instead they all think Utah is a better bet?

What silly logic. You'll have to explain it to me.

Read FNQ’s recent posts on the Poole thread. I agree with him, Poole needs to be ‘the man’ on the second unit, and they need a complementary big time offensive player on the starting unit. Fortunately there is some guy called Klay Thompson who fits the bill perfectly, but he needs to be something like what he was previously come the play-offs. Iguodala and Green are also 7 years older than they were when they won the first title. Curry is a given, he may well be better than he was then if he goes back to his historic shooting percentages, but nobody, not him, not Jordan, not LeBron, not KD, not Magic, nor anyone else can win on their own. GSW also need someone to bang with centers, Draymond can only do so for limited periods, and having KD do it quite likely contributed to his injury imo. Hopefully Wiseman can provide something together with Looney who while a very smart player is somewhat undersized, or perhaps they can get Kuminga up to speed by the play-offs to be a small ball center for significant minutes at least defensively, he has all the physical attributes to be a great defensive player as Green himself recently said, he is bigger, longer, more athletic and even possibly stronger despite being only 19 than Green. They can probably at least pick up a journeyman center later in the year, the like of Baynes would be good but I believe he is out for the whole season.

[floppymoose]

During summer league some of the play by play folks loved Kuminga. I think an old timer coach (Hubie?) was doing color on one of the games and saying the Warriors needed to trade their youth for a win-now piece, and the play by play guy was "I'm keeping Kuminga; no way am I trading him".

[ShootersShoot]

Simmons might as well be BSPN. I don't hear anything resembling independent thought from anyone in media which is what one would expect from truly independent sources.

Funny, what you are feeling is what I feel about what they say about Steph.

That there is not one single person that I can point to in media that is willing to say or argue that Stephen Curry is the greatest player in the game or that the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season is enough to tell me they are all BS.

"the Warriors should have been favorites at the beginning of the season"

Of course, you're probably the only person in the country to believe that, so that should be taken into account.

The core of a multiple time finals and championship team that holds the regular season wins record is getting back together at last and they don't have anyone favoring them? Not one soul? Instead they all think Utah is a better bet?

What silly logic. You'll have to explain it to me.

Because Utah finished #1 in the west last season with no major losses of their roster, and the warriors finished 8th despite curry playing at or near mvp level? Klay hasnt come back yet and we have no idea how long it will take him to get acclimated. Sounds extremely logical to me honestly.

[floppymoose]

Also, the original vegas line did not have GS anywhere near the top for contention, i think. That's a good pulse on what people are really thinking.

ESPN had us 10th: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32271342/nba-power-rankings-preseason-edition-favorites-heading-training-camp

538 had us 11th... *in the west*: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-the-bucks-run-it-back-can-lebron-win-his-fifth-ring-how-our-model-sees-the-2021-22-nba-season/

[DonaldSanders]

Simmons has always been a sports *comedy* guy. He's good at making jokes and pointing out ridiculous stuff AFTER the fact. His analysis about what will happen has always been terrible. His strength was always connecting with the fan experience, nothing more.

[WarriorGM]

Because Utah finished #1 in the west last season with no major losses of their roster, and the warriors finished 8th despite curry playing at or near mvp level? Klay hasnt come back yet and we have no idea how long it will take him to get acclimated. Sounds extremely logical to me honestly.

Utah finished first and then in the playoffs was unceremoniously ousted by a Clippers team that didn't have its best player.

That against a team powered by the same core that went to the finals 5 consecutive times setting up numerous records and terrorizing the league.

No, it does not make sense. Especially when you consider the media gives every benefit of the doubt to the Nets or the Lakers.

Also, the original vegas line did not have GS anywhere near the top for contention, i think. That's a good pulse on what people are really thinking.

I think the championship odds line had the Warriors at 4th or thereabouts and I remember a media guy commenting that was crazy.

[floppymoose]

You are right, it was 4th. It was +1100.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

You are right, it was 4th. It was +1100.

Even *now* it is ~ +750, behind the Nets, Lakers, and Bucks.

[GSWFan1994]

Great, thanks to all for making this another Curry thread.