Keeping JTA and GP2 long term

[The411]

I doubt there will be much of a market for either JTA or GPII. Both turn 30 next season, both are limited offensively, and get by on hustle, defense, and smarts. Those aren't the traits that are really prized in today's NBA. Payton was cut by 4 teams before he caught on here, and I think teams can see how he fits with the Warriors but would he fit elsewhere? Not so much. Same goes for Juan.

Some people thought there would be a market for Looney before he signed his contract here, but again, too many limitations. Undersized, non-shooting center, there's no market for them. Same thing with these two, too many limitations.

You don't the other teams around the league wouldn't love GPII? every single team in the NBA would cut one of their players if they could have GPII instead. Coaches love guys who bring energy and can create havoc especially with the NBA being so perimeter oriented.

GPII is one of those guys whose presence can energize a team to play tough D especially if they've looked lethargic early on in the game.

Sure he has his limitations, but he doesn't have to score to make a big impact, and his paint play for a 6'2 guy is outstanding. How much that translates in terms of a contract is a good question but I could see a team paying 3 for 30 for GPII

JTA is valuable but less so as he's fairly mercurial in his play. He's an excellent fit for the Warriors for obvious reasons. The question is how much could he get on the open market and would it be enough to leave the Warriors.

Looney is harder because he's extremely fundamentally sound, but his athleticism is below average and it's only going to get worse. He's fairly limited, but is also quite cognizant of his role.

Every team would love to have Payton? In the last five years four different teams have had him and they all cut him. One of them cut him twice, in two different seasons. He was on his way out of the league when the Warriors gave him a shot. So pardon me if I find it hard to believe that every team is dying for him after he's played 15 minutes a game for 23 games with the Warriors.

Right now, yes. He finally has figured things out this year. However, when you look at what he brings to the table you'd be hard pressed to think he wouldn't improve every single roster. He's got the second highest +/- in the league which is saying something when he plays so few minutes.

[Outside]

With both GPII and JTA, they've shown they can thrive in the Warriors system, but that doesn't necessarily translate to how most other teams would attempt to use them. Their best fit may be here.

[xdrta+]

With both GPII and JTA, they've shown they can thrive in the Warriors system, but that doesn't necessarily translate to how most other teams would attempt to use them. Their best fit may be here.

Exactly right. And I'll bet just about every GM in the league realizes it.

[TrueFan420]

that said, i'd rather keep JTA/Payton than Poole if it came down to that choice.

Good thing it’s not up to you. Poole is the only player on our team outside of Curry that can go and get his own outside of system. Wiggins can score but he’s more a in system then go out and hunt buckets when we need em. Poole is far far better than JTA or Payton. Those two are useful vets at the end of the bench but their skillsets are far easier to replace than what Poole does. Don’t forget Poole is only going to get better.

Poole is "far far better" offensively with the ball in his hands than JTA or Payton. But Poole is so gd soft on defense, he sticks out like a sore thumb. When he's playing well, he will move his feet and stay in front of guys but he is soft as cotton. Most guys he ends up on can just push past him to the rim. He's worked so hard on his game, this next off season he needs to work on his body. He needs to embrace Steph's method for getting past being a sieve on defense.

You put those 3 players up for free to each team in the league and not one team our own included takes Juan or Payton over Poole. Their cheap vets that are replaceable. Poole is a far better player even if he still needs to improve his defense. It’s a laughably bad take to suggest otherwise.

[GQ Hot Dog]

Good thing it’s not up to you. Poole is the only player on our team outside of Curry that can go and get his own outside of system. Wiggins can score but he’s more a in system then go out and hunt buckets when we need em. Poole is far far better than JTA or Payton. Those two are useful vets at the end of the bench but their skillsets are far easier to replace than what Poole does. Don’t forget Poole is only going to get better.

Poole is "far far better" offensively with the ball in his hands than JTA or Payton. But Poole is so gd soft on defense, he sticks out like a sore thumb. When he's playing well, he will move his feet and stay in front of guys but he is soft as cotton. Most guys he ends up on can just push past him to the rim. He's worked so hard on his game, this next off season he needs to work on his body. He needs to embrace Steph's method for getting past being a sieve on defense.

You put those 3 players up for free to each team in the league and not one team our own included takes Juan or Payton over Poole. Their cheap vets that are replaceable. Poole is a far better player even if he still needs to improve his defense. It’s a laughably bad take to suggest otherwise.

It's a reminder that players aren't just one thing. Everyone has roles they excel at and are needed to perform to secure wins. Putting in Payton or JTA to drive the offense would be a disaster. Putting in Poole to make it hard on the opponent's ball handler would similarly lead to losses. But overall, yes of course Poole is much more valuable because players that can score consistently over good defense are rare even if on balance Poole isn't a "far better player" than the other two.

[dk1115]

It's 30 games in, but I think it's a good enough sample size to note that GP2 has the second highest BPM behind Steph Curry this year.

[GunnerWRX]

Looney, JTA, GP2, Iguodala, OPJ, Bjleica and Lee are all FAs after this season. Appreciate this special team while you can.

Given our top heavy salaries and luxury tax, it will be difficult to keep the players unless they are willing to re-sign for the minimum. The real minimum, because even the allowed 20% raise above the minimum will have a huge impact on the luxury taxes. The league counts the salaries for tax purpose more favorably if the contract is for min.

Having said that, JTA is actually a RFA. We can keep his rights by offering him a QO. But that is not min. I kind of feel the management would want to keep him because if Iguodala retires (likely from how he looks right now), regardless of Kuminga's progress, they need a facilitator off the bench when Draymond sits.

GP2 is a must-keep in my book. Poole plays 44% of his minutes without Steph, and only 4 players have a higher %. Among the 4, only GP2 has 100+ min without Steph, and he is +4.7 points per 36 min during those minutes. As Steph ages, we cannot count on Steph as much, and the Steph-less minutes have always been our trouble spot in the past. We need players who can play in Kerr's scheme and don't lose the lead when Steph sits. Needless to say, GP2 is also passing with flying colors on any other analytic measurement, as well as the eye test, with and without Steph on the court.

In my opinion, *for sure* we need to keep both of them if they are willing to return for min. Even if they cost slightly more, I still think we bite the bullet and re-sign them, because other vets in the open market probably won't fit as well. Continuity is important. Especially for Kerr, whose stuff takes a while to learn and adjust to.

In the end, it will be like the McGee situation in 2018, when McGee finished 2 seasons with us, both at min, and we were trying to re-sign him a 3rd time for min. He ended up going to the Lakers for the same min, instead of staying here. Speculation was being under-appreciated was one of the reasons.

[Samurai]

With the obvious caveat of very small sample size, the person currently leading the team in 3-point % is.....GPII. So far, he seems to be the biggest priority in terms of FA re-signings. It's a close one with Looney, but assuming Kuminga continues to improve and assuming Wiseman will still be 7-feet tall when he returns, I'm thinking that the defense, hustle and energy GPII provides is even more important than a solid big.

[wco81]

If the team sold out games all season, it would be easier for Lacob to pay the luxury taxes.

Now with this new variant, ticket sales for both Warriors games and Chase Center concerts are going to take a hit, after losing a ton of money in 2020.

[GunnerWRX]

The earlier pre-covid estimate is that the Chase Center can pull in $500m a year, with a possibility of $700m, of revenue.

Forbes also estimated per home game at Chase from tickets, concessions, and premium seating is $7m a game for the regular season.

In Oracle, playoff home game revenue was around $11-$22m per game during our 5 Finals run.

Having said all that, the Warriors were bean counting before the season when they waived GP2 and Bradley, taking the risk to lose them despite re-signing GP2, meaning they wanted one of them in the first place, just to save a few bucks.

They also did not use the TMLE and missed out on Millsap.

Our rough team payroll including tax is $350m before the season. With the above actions, that was probably the payroll they were comfortable with, knowing what they knew at the time - optimistic but probably estimated to be a #5-#6 seed team.

With the current status, and if Klay looks fine and, say, we reach the Finals and looks like we will stay a contender for another 2-3 seasons with Steph + the maturing young players? With the increased revenue due to increased fan interest, new cable deal, and playoff revenue, maybe they are comfortable with an increase of $50m in payroll?

Having said that, with the lux tax, an increase in $50m in payroll is probably just ~$10m in salary, i.e. using the MLE or not.

These stuff is all modeled in their business/team plan I am sure.

Just want to throw some info out here for those interested, instead of throwing a comment out of my ass like "oh they can afford it Chase is charging $500 for a vanilla lower bowl ticket".

[wco81]

Despite all the years of winning, the local TV market is not as lucrative for the Warriors as other markets.

For instance, what the Lakers and Knicks generate on local TV deals.

But also, I wonder if the Celtics are on the NESN, which is a lucrative deal for the Red Sox.

The regional TV sports market is kind of under turmoil now. There's talk that it may become a separate streaming package.

I think the 49ers pre and post game on NBC Sports Bay Area is a bigger deal than the Warriors games and pre/post shows. Even the Giants as well. In good years, local TV Warriors games may be a distant second to Giants games in TV ratings.

[cladden]

Despite all the years of winning, the local TV market is not as lucrative for the Warriors as other markets.

For instance, what the Lakers and Knicks generate on local TV deals.

But also, I wonder if the Celtics are on the NESN, which is a lucrative deal for the Red Sox.

The regional TV sports market is kind of under turmoil now. There's talk that it may become a separate streaming package.

I think the 49ers pre and post game on NBC Sports Bay Area is a bigger deal than the Warriors games and pre/post shows. Even the Giants as well. In good years, local TV Warriors games may be a distant second to Giants games in TV ratings.

Is that really the case? I'm not sure I know anyone who watches baseball on TV. Maybe it's a generation thing. I'm 41. I suppose older people love their baseball. I have no idea though.

[wco81]

Look at how many people NBC Sports Bay Area puts on before during and after Giants games vs. Warriors games.

For the playoffs they may throw some more people though.

[and1GS]

I'm not sure you can say TV guests equates to viewership numbers and revenue value...

If you have an actual report I'd be keen to see it. I've only been able to find random years of revenue online.

[wco81]

If GP2 has more shooting games like last night, he’s definitely getting too expensive after this season.

[B-King]

JTA will lose all his minutes to Kuminga next season. GP2 is a good change of pace guy, but not worth more than the minimum to this team.

If they can make more elsewhere, they would be hard pressed to not take it. Players like Porter and Bjelica have made a significant amount of money in their careers. JTA and GP2 need to earn as much as they can.

[DonaldSanders]

GP2 is a good change of pace guy, but not worth more than the minimum to this team.

What kind of crack are you smoking? He has the 3rd highest VORP, 2nd highest BPM, 3rd best On/Off (ignoring Dowtin's limited time) on the whole team.

GPII is a key player to this team. I just hope other teams assume he's a "Warriors system player" and we don't have to spend too much. But he's absolutely worth keeping.

[GQ Hot Dog]

JTA will lose all his minutes to Kuminga next season. GP2 is a good change of pace guy, but not worth more than the minimum to this team.

If they can make more elsewhere, they would be hard pressed to not take it. Players like Porter and Bjelica have made a significant amount of money in their careers. JTA and GP2 need to earn as much as they can.

Both should see how much they can get on the open market then give the Warriors the chance to match. At their ages, they both should be most concerned with getting the biggest bag possible but I don't think either would have as much success(or fun) on another team.

[azwfan]

Can we use the TPMLE from this year, to extend GP2 for following couple years?

Either to guarantee + raise this year plus extension or just a flat extension?

[wco81]

Porter may also be a priority to try to re-sign if he keeps shooting so well consistently.