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With Klay Thompson Returning...

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With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#1 » by sonnyhill » Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:50 pm

Does Thompson's return make having Jordan Poole on the roster redundant, and should the Warriors try to get creative in the trade market?

Also, with the emergence of Payton II and Moses Moody, and Damion Lee also on the bench, could the Warriors be facing a potential logjam of backcourt players?

I like Poole and see him as a multi-dimensional backcourt player; yet, I have a hard time seeing him as a future sixth man off the bench.

With the roster and rotation looking pretty set for this season, would it make sense for the Warriors to look into packaging both Poole and Wiseman (and probably some draft capital, too) to New Orleans for Zion Williamson. Yes, he is injured (and looking like a sumo wrestler, too); however, with the rest of this season and this offseason to finish rehabbing and getting into shape, the Warriors could have a frontcourt superstar to pair up with Wiggins and Green. It sure looks like a huge stretch to see Zion sign an extension with New Orleans and that franchise may need to hit the reset button (again). Poole, Wiseman and future draft pick(s) may allow for that franchise to salvage something for Zion. Yes, there is huge risk in this trade scenario for the Warriors; yet, the Warrior ecosystem may be the one place where the kid would thrive, and that would give the Warriors an impact player in the frontcourt without having to give up another potential future star in Kuminga.

While Wiseman can one day become a serviceable, maybe even really good, center, at the end of a game, does a Kerr-coached Warrior team even play a center? I like Wiseman and see lots of upside with his game, but does he fit on a Kerr-coached team?

Poole, Wiseman and future draft pick(s) for Zion. I would love to read the pros and cons of this potential scenario from others on this board.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#2 » by Flash Falcon X » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:10 pm

Extra scoring off the bench is always a welcome addition. And I expect Poole to have some bigger nights as a 6th man because he'll have the green light to lead the 2nd unit, whereas in the starting line-up he has to share the ball. Poole as the main scorer off the bench should help other guys in the 2nd unit feel comfortable, too. His ballhandling, drives, penetration and spacing allows guys like Porter Jr, Bjelica, Lee, etc. get some more open shots.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#3 » by The-Power » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:20 pm

sonnyhill wrote:Does Thompson's return make having Jordan Poole on the roster redundant

No, because they are completely different players who have different roles on this team on offense. Klay is an off-ball shooter to space the floor, Poole is there to create offense off the dribble which only him and Steph can do reliably on our roster.

sonnyhill wrote:and should the Warriors try to get creative in the trade market?

What does that mean? I doubt Zion is available; and if he is, we probably shouldn't touch him because NOP has given up on an MVP-caliber talent that quickly (and nobody else beats our offer), which would a massive red flag. Also, what's the fit of Zion with Dray anyway (since you raised those similar issues with Poole (redundant) and Wiseman (not part of closing line-ups))? Zion would just be an acquisition for his massive talent (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't resolve any issues of roster-fit you seem to have identified).

sonnyhill wrote:Also, with the emergence of Payton II and Moses Moody, and Damion Lee also on the bench, could the Warriors be facing a potential logjam of backcourt players?

When, this season? No, Moody cannot be counted on yet and Lee and Payton are guys who get some minutes off the bench, not high-minutes type of players. In the future? Unlikely. Even if Moody becomes a good player (far from a certainty), Lee and Payton aren't likely to influence strategic decisions of the franchise at all (they are both minimum players who entered the season without fully guaranteed deals at the age of 29 for a reason).

There's also absolutely no rush to trade Poole in the middle of a championship run for which he'll be needed. If this is just about getting value for him in case you don't want to extent him, you could work something out in the off-season (he'd still be a year under contract) and not create holes in our roster in the middle of the season.

sonnyhill wrote:I like Poole and see him as a multi-dimensional backcourt player; yet, I have a hard time seeing him as a future sixth man off the bench.

First of all, why not? Second of all, just because that would be his role for the next couple of seasons (presumably) doesn't mean he's not going to start eventually – like Fred van Fleet, for instance, who became a full starter in his age 25 season for Toronto. A lot can happen in two or three years in the NBA (decline of starters, trades, injuries, positional shifts etc.).
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#4 » by FNQ » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:28 pm

Curry is the starting PG
Klay is the starting SG
Poole is the bench microwave/ 6th or 7th man
GP2 is a guard in height only, he plays like a forward and can guard 1-3 capably
Lee is clinging to his rotation spot barely
Moody is a wing, who will likely be more of a SF than SG, and is likely a long-term replacement for Moody and short-term replacement for Iguodala

No logjam. Poole's minutes will get cut, GP2s minutes should be unaffected, Lee's minutes probably go away entirely, at least game to game. When Klay and JW return, both Lee and JTA will probably be what GP2 was before he cemented his rotation spot: guys who come in when we need a shot in the arm and the current group just isn't making it happen
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#5 » by FNQ » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:30 pm

And you should bring this offer to the Pels board or the trade board. I'm not saying it's not going to go well, but make sure you have thick skin before heading over :thumbsup:

But, FTR, I'm not against shopping Poole in the offseason, depending on the situation. He's certainly not untouchable
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#6 » by Samurai » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:34 pm

Unless there is a fountain of youth in the locker room, Curry will also continue to get older. It would make sense that to preserve his value, his minutes will need to be reduced and/or need more games off as he ages. Which means that Poole's minutes, and corresponding value to the team, will go up. He can't do that for us if he isn't on the roster. It would make Myers look incredibly foolish if he had to say "OMG, Curry got older. We didn't plan for that because we had absolutely no idea that would happen."
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#7 » by BBQ Thurmond » Wed Dec 15, 2021 11:58 pm

You are proposing a high risk - high reward scenario with this proposed trade.

Zion Williamson, when healthy, is the future "face of the NBA." The problems with Zion are both his propensity for getting injured and his overall physical conditioning. Luka, Harden, and Zion show a lack of discipline when it comes to conditioning and that is a huge problem.

Big IF here...IF Zion could get onto a similar-to-LeBron's fitness program, then I would recommend rolling the dice and making the proposed trade.

A frontcourt lineup of Wiggins, a healthy Zion and Draymond with a backcourt of Steph and Klay would scare every other team in the NBA.

I highly doubt that Lacob would be open to trading away Wiseman, especially for an often-injured Zion.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#8 » by Coxy » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:03 am

sonnyhill wrote:I have a hard time seeing him as a future sixth man off the bench.


Try harder then. This is literally his role in the NBA.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#9 » by GunnerWRX » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:13 am

Poole already plays 44% of his minutes without Steph, and scoring efficiently without Steph's gravity. He will be a key clog to carry
the scoring load from the bench. For the first couple of months, Klay won't play 30+ minutes so I do not expect Poole's minutes to be down by a lot.

Once Klay can average 28-30 minutes a game (Mar-Apr before the playoffs?), I expect Poole's minutes to dip slightly, but still be ~25 mpg. Steph, Klay, Poole, and GP2 will soak up the 96 guard minutes.

Lee and Moody will only get minutes for injuries or blowouts, or some spot minutes when we go small/3 guard. They won't get regular minutes unless they make a big jump and show consistent impactful plays.

GP2 has the inside track now for sure, but if he suddenly looks lost like Lee, the other guys will get a chance.

Re: Zion, it doesn't look like the Pels are ready to move on yet. Also, there is 1 thing about an established vet who got injured, and you are gambling that he will be able to recover and stay relatively healthy - i.e. Bogut/Livingston/OPJ. Zion being a top tier talent, losing his drive, getting fat and lazy, and getting hurt because he is fat 2 seasons in, is unheard of.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#10 » by GunnerWRX » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:18 am

FNQ wrote:
But, FTR, I'm not against shopping Poole in the offseason, depending on the situation. He's certainly not untouchable


Maybe we win it all and Poole gets the Tony Parker FMVP, exposing Steph again? :lol:

Seriously, the coming off-season will be interesting.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#11 » by Onus » Thu Dec 16, 2021 12:58 am

Yea we should look to make a trade because we have the best record in the league and need a shake up.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#12 » by sonnyhill » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:10 am

Nobody is advocating the team needing "a shake up."

Jordan Poole, a player who will have less value to the Warriors once Thompson returns, and Wiseman, a player who plays a position which is marginalized-and-diminished in a Kerr-coached Warrior team, could possibly be packaged to pick up a distressed asset with huge-superstar upside, Zion Williamson, from a team which may not be able to sign him to an extension and may be desperate to get assets onto its roster before Zion decides to move on to another team.

When healthy (and that is a big question mark and may dismiss even considering this type of trade), Zion Williamson is a young superstar player still on his rookie contract.

I would like to keep Wiseman; yet, nobody knows if Wiseman is nothing more than a left-handed version of Patrick O'Bryant (the original "Chef" on the Warriors), the worst case scenario, or if he can become a poor man's version of Deandre Ayton or David Robinson, a more hopeful scenario. Also, Poole may want to be the lead player on a team, and that is not going to happen with Curry and Thompson as the team's future Hall of Fame backcourt duo.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#13 » by Old_Blue » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:37 am

sonnyhill wrote:Poole, Wiseman and future draft pick(s) for Zion. I would love to read the pros and cons of this potential scenario from others on this board.


Pro - None

Con - Zion is a fat a$$ who's going to eat himself out of the league. He's already managed to miss 88 out of his first 173 professional games, during which time he's gotten woefully out of shape. In a few years, you'll be able to find Zion and Pablo Sandoval at a Nation's Hamburgers somewhere arguing over who can eat more mayonnaise.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#14 » by NeoWarriors » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:47 am

Old_Blue wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:Poole, Wiseman and future draft pick(s) for Zion. I would love to read the pros and cons of this potential scenario from others on this board.


Pro - None

Con - Zion is a fat a$$ who's going to eat himself out of the league. He's already managed to miss 88 out of his first 173 professional games, during which time he's gotten woefully out of shape. In a few years, you'll be able to find Zion and Pablo Sandoval at a Nation's Hamburgers somewhere arguing over who can eat more mayonnaise.


Prince Fielder has entered the chat. Then subsequently the mayonnaise eating competition at Nations.

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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#15 » by and1GS » Thu Dec 16, 2021 1:52 am

Old_Blue wrote:
sonnyhill wrote:Poole, Wiseman and future draft pick(s) for Zion. I would love to read the pros and cons of this potential scenario from others on this board.


Pro - None

Con - Zion is a fat a$$ who's going to eat himself out of the league. He's already managed to miss 88 out of his first 173 professional games, during which time he's gotten woefully out of shape. In a few years, you'll be able to find Zion and Pablo Sandoval at a Nation's Hamburgers somewhere arguing over who can eat more mayonnaise.
**** dude that's brutal

He comes with a ton of baggage. It would be extremely risky to deal a king's ransom for him. Ballsy and potentially franchise changing, but is it a risk we need to take? I'm not so sure.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#16 » by jaymo123 » Thu Dec 16, 2021 2:06 am

Jordan Poole would be perfect off the bench, the Dub's version of Lou Will or Jordan Clarkson. Plus he is inexpensive.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#17 » by marthafokker » Thu Dec 16, 2021 3:52 am

Love Poole going to the basket at will last night. Going against bench players make him even more efficient. And have DLee with zero minutes is a good thing, with his daddy duty and all.

Now if we only know what Wiseman can bring off the bench.... Hope it becomes scary for opponents... Not us fans.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#18 » by Crazy-Canuck » Thu Dec 16, 2021 4:12 am

No overlap at all.

Klay gives dray another outlet and more spacing for steph and wiggs plus better defense.

Poole loves to pound the air out of the ball, so he can do that while trying to create for himself and others. If he and wise can develop a pnr game, that's just gravy.
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#19 » by FNQ » Thu Dec 16, 2021 5:06 am

jaymo123 wrote:Jordan Poole would be perfect off the bench, the Dub's version of Lou Will or Jordan Clarkson. Plus he is inexpensive.


But only for 1.5 more years

I have a tough time fencesitting usually but this is a real tough one. Trade, let him walk, or pay him? There’s sense in all 3 options. Hopefully he makes it clear which option is best this year
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Re: With Klay Thompson Returning... 

Post#20 » by and1GS » Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:00 am

I cannot wait for Poole to make the permanent switch to the bench. I think he can be absolutely devastating there. We've seen how he can explode as a first stringer against top teams so man it'll be an unprecedented warriors weapon to have someone like that lighting up second units. Reminds of the young Monta situation before he won a starting spot.

This can only be good for us as it knocks some struggling guys out of the rotation and potentially sets up some intriguing Poole and Kuminga/Wiseman PnR situations that just wouldn't make sense in a Steph/Dray lineup. Poole, GP2, JTA, Kuminga, take-your-pick-5 is a fantastic change of pace lineup.
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