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Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST,

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michaelm
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#241 » by michaelm » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:03 am

watch1958 wrote:When Wiseman went into COVID protocol, Kerr said that he was days away from being released for contact. Not sure how that squares with this timeframe.

Yes, if he had an arthroscopy in Mid December that was before he went into Covid protocol and he was said to be shooting pre game Jan 4.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#242 » by DAWill1128 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:39 am

This recent stretch is really a handful of things.

23-5 before Poole being out
7-6 since Poole has returned

We've talked about Poole being a 6th man type guy. But I am getting the idea the success he has had this season is from being an after thought opportunity scorer with lineups with Steph, Wiggins, and Dray. He hasn't looked the same since going to the bench, his ego seems a bit deflated. But also he may not be the primary shot creator we thought he could be for a 2nd unit. I've never thought Poole was a great bench player in his tenure with the team, but he's run hot at times as a starter and helped us secure wins.

One thing about Poole is when he's in a lineup with Curry and Dray he adds another ball handler to start games. He adds another guy to attack the hoop. It's harder to game plan for a team with three ball handlers to start a game with Curry, Dray, and Poole. So it really opens up the inside-out game.

These lineups with Dray out and Klay inserted for Poole completely lack ball handling, passing, and the ability to drive to the hoop. I mean Curry is the only ball handler and great passer in the mix, only guy who's a really big threat of the dribble drive. What's happening with Dray out and Poole on the bench is we are little to no threat to attack the hoop so teams are guarding the perimeter tighter and that's affecting our outside shooting. Guys are getting the same shots, they are just more contested.

I will also say we are just a faster team starting games with Poole. Our overall speed to start games hasn't been great with Klay thus far.

3-5 since Draymond injury
27-6 with Draymond

Dray really is our point guard, Steph is not a true point guard but a shooter and secondary passer and ball handler. With Dray out the primary scorer, primary driver, primary passer is all falling on Curry and we are just limited in that circumstance. Getting Dray back as the point guard of the offense will be huge.

We also have no ability to go small and change gears with Dray out. Looney and Bjelica both play the same speed. We have no change of gear without Dray when things stagnate.

Dray is also a great help defender. GP2 is probably the only other guy that's a great help defender. Iggy has kinda dropped off to an extent. So we haven't been able to provide great help defense.

Looney and Bjelica are also not great shot blockers, both guys need to play with a guy like Dray who can help defend the paint. We aren't able to run a true spread offense like the Sun's, Jazz, or 76ers without Dray because our centers don't have that shot blocking ability. Teams know this so they just attack at will, why wouldn't they? We can't contest inside efficiently without Dray.

Also, Dray holds guys accountable. Nobody else really has that fight in them verbally.

Here's the recipe to beating the current mix we have, defend them on the line as tightly as humanly possible. Attack the hoop as much as humanly possible. It's a pretty simple recipe and I anticipate more losses till we get everyone going.

As for Klay, it's a process. Getting his legs underneath him will take a while. Mainly getting that lift he had when shooting will take some time. Getting that speed coming off screen will take time. Getting that speed to slide laterally on guys will take time. Not sure he's ever that lockdown point guard defender again. Klay pre-injury used to lock up quick guards like Westbrook and Paul. Klay before injury would never let Morant get going to the cup like that.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#243 » by Soca » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:51 am

cpower wrote:Curry needs to find ways to keep shooting, i know he is trying to set up his teammates but thats not his game. He is great when he is firing from all over the court. Teams try to double him but we need to find ways to free him. Ive noticed he has been standing a lot more lately, i think he is pretty tired of fighting through screens but he has to demand the ball more there is no other way around.
without GP2 and Draymond, there is no hope beating the bulls. Maybe give Curry a day off so that he can rest.


He needs to get to the rim more. His shot selection has not been good.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#244 » by HiRez » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:05 am

watch1958 wrote:And where was Moody? Was he on the bench? Or still with the SeaDubs?

I don't understand this, we have a tough back to back on the road (and 3 games in 4 days), he just had a 37 point game in G League, we're down a player in Draymond, Klay's on a minutes restriction and won't play at all tomorrow, so why is Moody not up with the big club? It's weird. WTF is this guy (or Kuminga) learning in the G League? Rooks need to be available for situations like this and play at least a few minutes consistently. They'd still lose the game, but Moody could have gotten some good experience here.

At this rate we're going to be facing Memphis and they'll have the home court advantage in the playoffs.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#245 » by michaelm » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:27 am

DAWill1128 wrote:This recent stretch is really a handful of things.

23-5 before Poole being out
7-6 since Poole has returned

We've talked about Poole being a 6th man type guy. But I am getting the idea the success he has had this season is from being an after thought opportunity scorer with lineups with Steph, Wiggins, and Dray. He hasn't looked the same since going to the bench, his ego seems a bit deflated. But also he may not be the primary shot creator we thought he could be for a 2nd unit. I've never thought Poole was a great bench player in his tenure with the team, but he's run hot at times as a starter and helped us secure wins.

One thing about Poole is when he's in a lineup with Curry and Dray he adds another ball handler to start games. He adds another guy to attack the hoop. It's harder to game plan for a team with three ball handlers to start a game with Curry, Dray, and Poole. So it really opens up the inside-out game.

These lineups with Dray out and Klay inserted for Poole completely lack ball handling, passing, and the ability to drive to the hoop. I mean Curry is the only ball handler and great passer in the mix, only guy who's a really big threat of the dribble drive. What's happening with Dray out and Poole on the bench is we are little to no threat to attack the hoop so teams are guarding the perimeter tighter and that's affecting our outside shooting. Guys are getting the same shots, they are just more contested.

I will also say we are just a faster team starting games with Poole. Our overall speed to start games hasn't been great with Klay thus far.

3-5 since Draymond injury
27-6 with Draymond

Dray really is our point guard, Steph is not a true point guard but a shooter and secondary passer and ball handler. With Dray out the primary scorer, primary driver, primary passer is all falling on Curry and we are just limited in that circumstance. Getting Dray back as the point guard of the offense will be huge.

We also have no ability to go small and change gears with Dray out. Looney and Bjelica both play the same speed. We have no change of gear without Dray when things stagnate.

Dray is also a great help defender. GP2 is probably the only other guy that's a great help defender. Iggy has kinda dropped off to an extent. So we haven't been able to provide great help defense.

Looney and Bjelica are also not great shot blockers, both guys need to play with a guy like Dray who can help defend the paint. We aren't able to run a true spread offense like the Sun's, Jazz, or 76ers without Dray because our centers don't have that shot blocking ability. Teams know this so they just attack at will, why wouldn't they? We can't contest inside efficiently without Dray.

Also, Dray holds guys accountable. Nobody else really has that fight in them verbally.

Here's the recipe to beating the current mix we have, defend them on the line as tightly as humanly possible. Attack the hoop as much as humanly possible. It's a pretty simple recipe and I anticipate more losses till we get everyone going.

As for Klay, it's a process. Getting his legs underneath him will take a while. Mainly getting that lift he had when shooting will take some time. Getting that speed coming off screen will take time. Getting that speed to slide laterally on guys will take time. Not sure he's ever that lockdown point guard defender again. Klay pre-injury used to lock up quick guards like Westbrook and Paul. Klay before injury would never let Morant get going to the cup like that.


Klay off the bench till he gets his legs under him imo.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#246 » by superunknown » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:14 pm

what a **** show, especially in teh first half.
this road trip could easily end up 0-4 if they keep playing this bad.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#247 » by superunknown » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:15 pm

what a **** show, especially in the first half.
this road trip could easily end up 0-4 if they keep playing this bad.
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Re: Game 41, Warriors at Defending champion Bucks, Thurs Jan 13, 4:30 PM PST, 

Post#248 » by GunnerWRX » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:44 pm

DAWill1128 wrote:This recent stretch is really a handful of things.

23-5 before Poole being out
7-6 since Poole has returned

We've talked about Poole being a 6th man type guy. But I am getting the idea the success he has had this season is from being an after thought opportunity scorer with lineups with Steph, Wiggins, and Dray. He hasn't looked the same since going to the bench, his ego seems a bit deflated. But also he may not be the primary shot creator we thought he could be for a 2nd unit. I've never thought Poole was a great bench player in his tenure with the team, but he's run hot at times as a starter and helped us secure wins.

One thing about Poole is when he's in a lineup with Curry and Dray he adds another ball handler to start games. He adds another guy to attack the hoop. It's harder to game plan for a team with three ball handlers to start a game with Curry, Dray, and Poole. So it really opens up the inside-out game.

These lineups with Dray out and Klay inserted for Poole completely lack ball handling, passing, and the ability to drive to the hoop. I mean Curry is the only ball handler and great passer in the mix, only guy who's a really big threat of the dribble drive. What's happening with Dray out and Poole on the bench is we are little to no threat to attack the hoop so teams are guarding the perimeter tighter and that's affecting our outside shooting. Guys are getting the same shots, they are just more contested.

I will also say we are just a faster team starting games with Poole. Our overall speed to start games hasn't been great with Klay thus far.

3-5 since Draymond injury
27-6 with Draymond

Dray really is our point guard, Steph is not a true point guard but a shooter and secondary passer and ball handler. With Dray out the primary scorer, primary driver, primary passer is all falling on Curry and we are just limited in that circumstance. Getting Dray back as the point guard of the offense will be huge.

We also have no ability to go small and change gears with Dray out. Looney and Bjelica both play the same speed. We have no change of gear without Dray when things stagnate.

Dray is also a great help defender. GP2 is probably the only other guy that's a great help defender. Iggy has kinda dropped off to an extent. So we haven't been able to provide great help defense.

Looney and Bjelica are also not great shot blockers, both guys need to play with a guy like Dray who can help defend the paint. We aren't able to run a true spread offense like the Sun's, Jazz, or 76ers without Dray because our centers don't have that shot blocking ability. Teams know this so they just attack at will, why wouldn't they? We can't contest inside efficiently without Dray.

Also, Dray holds guys accountable. Nobody else really has that fight in them verbally.

Here's the recipe to beating the current mix we have, defend them on the line as tightly as humanly possible. Attack the hoop as much as humanly possible. It's a pretty simple recipe and I anticipate more losses till we get everyone going.

As for Klay, it's a process. Getting his legs underneath him will take a while. Mainly getting that lift he had when shooting will take some time. Getting that speed coming off screen will take time. Getting that speed to slide laterally on guys will take time. Not sure he's ever that lockdown point guard defender again. Klay pre-injury used to lock up quick guards like Westbrook and Paul. Klay before injury would never let Morant get going to the cup like that.


Till 12/31, Poole played the most minutes on the whole team without Steph and Draymond, and he was +3.7 / 36min; 28.8pt/36min @ 47.5 fg%. That I think is awesome given our Steph-less trouble over the 5 Finals years, even with KD.

Poole's Steph+Dray-less minutes is nearly double the next guy, and 3x more than Wiggs.

So before anyone says how Poole "benefits" from Steph, everyone benefits playing off Steph, but Poole benefits the least from Steph relative to the whole team. Get the facts straight and keep that in mind before making any "analysis".

Image

Since 1/1, Poole also played more minutes than the whole team without Steph and Draymond, and his +/- was better than most other key bench players.
Image

His shooting % was crap obviously (20.7%). Off the bench, he is trying too hard to get others shots and at times he seems any indecisive - gives up open 3s, no one to pass to, then ended up driving into a crowd.

With the starters, he was the 3rd option and basically he could just attack decisively when it comes to him, because Steph and Wiggins didn't take the shot.

His ~16 shots per 36 min since 1/1 are still a lot, but they were completely different types of shots if one watched the games.

Since his +/- was better than OPJ and GP2 etc when playing without Steph and Dray, the key is to how to get Poole back to his shooting rhythm off the bench?

Let him to shoot earlier in the clock when he has a good shot available - i.e. be more aggressive and stop "finding a teammate" when a good shot shows up?

Or have him play more off-ball with the bench unit?

It could also be due to Steph and the whole team's slump since 1/1. The players and Kerr need to figure something out.

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