Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman

[Impuniti]

Until coaching is cut throat enough to make the right decisions, I don't see things changing too much. Maybe .500 going forward not being a top seed. Not like this.

[whatisacenter]

Until coaching is cut throat enough to make the right decisions, I don't see things changing too much. Maybe .500 going forward not being a top seed. Not like this.

seems like an overreaction to me and not worthy of a thread. Klay just helped us win a title and was playing great defense by the end of the finals. He didn't play ball all summer and is just getting ramped up. Wiseman will either improve with reps or not and they can figure that out as the season goes on but the backup center is not why they are 3-5.

[zhuangcorp]

Jordan Poole 9 points. Why in the world did we pay him $140m??

[Coxy]

Neither are the issue for mine.

Right now, I think we are seeing how bad our defence can be, because we lost Gary Payton II and Otto Porter, and we are now playing Jordan Poole much heavier minutes nightly. Losing GPII in particular is huge, as he was generating all sorts of havoc on D and then played a unique screen and role guy on offense. Poole is dreadful on defense, as bad as it gets, and his role on offense is hard to mould into our system a lot of the time because it's so herky jerky.

In a nutshell, no GPII and Otto, and way more Poole is a huge difference to this team.

[clyde21]

Until coaching is cut throat enough to make the right decisions, I don't see things changing too much. Maybe .500 going forward not being a top seed. Not like this.

seems like an overreaction to me and not worthy of a thread. Klay just helped us win a title and was playing great defense by the end of the finals. He didn't play ball all summer and is just getting ramped up. Wiseman will either improve with reps or not and they can figure that out as the season goes on but the backup center is not why they are 3-5.

i don't want to speak for the OP but I think his point about Klay is that he (and the team) need to realize he's not the same dude anymore, and his role needs to be adjusted accordingly.

dont think this is earth shattering stuff and pretty obvious at this point.

[Warriorfan]

Wiseman and Klay can still get better this young season
Warriors are not going to be chasing wins, rest and player development this year.

GP2 hasn't played a minute for Portland

[Old_Blue]

Warriors are not going to be chasing wins, rest and player decrement this year.

While "decrement" is indeed a word, did you actually mean to say "development" or "excrement?" At this point, either might apply.

[xdrta+]

Wiseman and Klay can still get better this young season
Warriors are not going to be chasing wins, rest and player decrement this year.

GP2 hasn't played a minute for Portland

Now he's out until Nov 15 at the earliest. Feel bad for him, they thought he'd be ready for opening day after having offseason core muscle surgery.

[whatisacenter]

Until coaching is cut throat enough to make the right decisions, I don't see things changing too much. Maybe .500 going forward not being a top seed. Not like this.

seems like an overreaction to me and not worthy of a thread. Klay just helped us win a title and was playing great defense by the end of the finals. He didn't play ball all summer and is just getting ramped up. Wiseman will either improve with reps or not and they can figure that out as the season goes on but the backup center is not why they are 3-5.

i don't want to speak for the OP but I think his point about Klay is that he (and the team) need to realize he's not the same dude anymore, and his role needs to be adjusted accordingly.

dont think this is earth shattering stuff and pretty obvious at this point.

Last season fans were clamoring for Klay to get benched as well and he ended up being major positive, especially defensively, in the final close out games in the finals. To say it's pretty obvious that he isn't the same dude this early in the season when he is on record saying he couldn't play pickup ball during the summer doesn't ring true to me unless you are talking about him ever getting back to 2019 standards.

[Zvaart]

Wiseman played 9 minutes in our last lost game. Definitely his fault.

[Jester_]

50% stupid thread. Wiseman one of the only bright spots this year.

Klank on the other hand is finished. He's taking more shots than Poole. Inexcusable.

[Dom801e]

Poole is a way bigger problem than Klay. Yes the huge drop off from former Klay to current is real, but even this version is still net neutral to small negative. The team can win with him, but won't have as high of upside if he doesn't get some shooting consistency.

Poole and WIseman however, have been among the worst in the league in terms of team impact. Kuminga is there too, but he's is not playing much now.

[Onus]

Not too worried our starting 5 is still a monster. Right now the 2nd best starting 5 based on Net RTG.

S. Curry - K. Thompson - D. Green - A. Wiggins - K. Looney GSW 7 92 128.9 100.5 28.4

It's really when anyone else comes in, everything just falls apart.

[WarriorGM]

I don't want to pile onto Wiseman because there are other issues but I think some of the comments are being too generous to him. It's conceivable that around 3 games that ended up as losses could have been wins the difference being the negative plus-minus minutes of Wiseman.

Some of you seem to be forgetting the lineup analyses in 2021 where Wiseman was absolutely dreadful. He gets injured the team goes on a 60-win pace. The year without him the team wins the championship. He gets back and the team has a sub .500 record. Occam's razor points to him. The onus is on Wiseman to show he isn't the common denominator or won't be going forward.

FiveThirtyEight currently has Wiseman's offensive RAPTOR at -4.8 and defensive RAPTOR at -6.5 this year. Those are bad numbers. In 2021 his offensive RAPTOR was -6.8 and defensive RAPTOR was -1.7 and that arguably made him the worst player that year getting significant minutes.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

Give him some room to run if it is that important but If he is so bad he cannot get to close to neutral impact against bench opposition then he needs to develop somewhere else until he can show he can hang in there.

[SpreeChokeJob]

I don't want to pile onto Wiseman because there are other issues but I think some of the comments are being too generous to him. It's conceivable that around 3 games that ended up as losses could have been wins the difference being the negative plus-minus minutes of Wiseman.

Some of you seem to be forgetting the lineup analyses in 2021 where Wiseman was absolutely dreadful. He gets injured the team goes on a 60-win pace. The year without him the team wins the championship. He gets back and the team has a sub .500 record. Occam's razor points to him. The onus is on Wiseman to show he isn't the common denominator or won't be going forward.

FiveThirtyEight currently has Wiseman's offensive RAPTOR at -4.8 and defensive RAPTOR at -6.5. Those are bad numbers.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/

He’s only completing his first year of professional basketball here right now minus college ball training. Yeah he’s going to stink. He might not get to being playable in playoffs even if he played all year because he hasn’t accumulated enough experience points to level up. Same with Kuminga. Moody is better because he at least attended college and got some training. So that leaves J. Green and Divencenzo who are journeyman talent. When the starters leave, the lead they built up will go away and if there isn’t a lead they will spend the game chasing or get blown out.

They really need to mix the vets with the young players even though it disrupts continuity because playing the second unit together is instant death. They have to hide the bad players with the good. Either move Wiseman and Poole with the starters or Klay and Looney to the bench. In any case, this most likely won’t be the Warrior’s year because there isn’t enough experienced talent barring any moves.

[cpower]

Klay is not good but he is far from the worse

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023/on-off/

problem is Poole wiseman jamall,

[WarFan]

Give them both about 20 more games to figure it out. If Klay doesn’t start hitting his shots then they need to limit his role and shot selection. If wiseman is still tanking leads when he gets on the court then send him to the gleague for a couple months.

[DonaldSanders]

Klay is not good but he is far from the worse

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023/on-off/

problem is Poole wiseman jamall,

Agreed, the bench is the real problem. Klay may look rough at times, but we are still generally getting results when he is in the game. I'd be fine with him getting moved to the bench, but I'm also fine with him staying in the starting lineup and just playing slightly fewer minutes.

The problem is that we let our stellar bench of vets go, and the cupboard is empty. We need to make a trade for some bench guys. It is time to cash in future picks and a young guy that is not fitting in well. Wiseman would be a perfect tank commander, but we'll need to attach a pick to get someone decent back. The whole 2 timelines thing sounds great when you're winning and not really actually playing the young guys.

I watched 20+ Steph Curry-less seasons where we never made it past the 2nd round, Steph does not grow on trees. We have a top 10 all time player on our roster, it's time to live in the present and use assets to attempt to repeat/win in Steph's final high end seasons.

[SpreeChokeJob]

Klay is not good but he is far from the worse

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023/on-off/

problem is Poole wiseman jamall,

Agreed, the bench is the real problem. Klay may look rough at times, but we are still generally getting results when he is in the game. I'd be fine with him getting moved to the bench, but I'm also fine with him staying in the starting lineup and just playing slightly fewer minutes.

The problem is that we let our stellar bench of vets go, and the cupboard is empty. We need to make a trade for some bench guys. It is time to cash in future picks and a young guy that is not fitting in well. Wiseman would be a perfect tank commander, but we'll need to attach a pick to get someone decent back. The whole 2 timelines thing sounds great when you're winning and not really actually playing the young guys.

I watched 20+ Steph Curry-less seasons where we never made it past the 2nd round, Steph does not grow on trees. We have a top 10 all time player on our roster, it's time to live in the present and use assets to attempt to repeat/win in Steph's final high end seasons.

It’s nice to be a sentimental fan, but Lacob has to look at the future after Curry. They have to get their next unicorn otherwise the good times of luxury tax spending will come to an end. That’s why when Wenbanyama is staring an owner in the face I don’t think he will be at least tempted to buy some lottery tickets. If they secured a young legit first option through trade then the Curry years could continue, but otherwise their priority will be to find or develop the next superstar because that’s right choice to maintain the future of this team.

[DonaldSanders]

Klay is not good but he is far from the worse

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/2023/on-off/

problem is Poole wiseman jamall,

Agreed, the bench is the real problem. Klay may look rough at times, but we are still generally getting results when he is in the game. I'd be fine with him getting moved to the bench, but I'm also fine with him staying in the starting lineup and just playing slightly fewer minutes.

The problem is that we let our stellar bench of vets go, and the cupboard is empty. We need to make a trade for some bench guys. It is time to cash in future picks and a young guy that is not fitting in well. Wiseman would be a perfect tank commander, but we'll need to attach a pick to get someone decent back. The whole 2 timelines thing sounds great when you're winning and not really actually playing the young guys.

I watched 20+ Steph Curry-less seasons where we never made it past the 2nd round, Steph does not grow on trees. We have a top 10 all time player on our roster, it's time to live in the present and use assets to attempt to repeat/win in Steph's final high end seasons.

It’s nice to be a sentimental fan, but Lacob has to look at the future after Curry. They have to get their next unicorn otherwise the good times of luxury tax spending will come to an end. That’s why when Wenbanyama is staring an owner in the face I don’t think he will be at least tempted to buy some lottery tickets. If they secured a young legit first option through trade then the Curry years could continue, but otherwise their priority will be to find or develop the next superstar because that’s right choice to maintain the future of this team.

Did you know that last season the Warriors won the championship?