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floppymoose wrote:Maybe Klay is like I was at his age and has some real sleep issues. I used to sleep through alarms and miss things. I would turn off alarms in my sleep, not fully understanding what i was doing. It would get integrated into a dream as something else.

I still am that way to some degree but it's alot tamer now than when I was Klay's age.

Sounds like you suffer from a traditional "Pints" issue we have here in Australia. Biggest difference is in Australia your boss usually suffers from the same, so all is understood.

The crux of all these issues is that everybody on the team, bench and offices has increasingly believed their own press/podcast. They all seem to have come to the conclusion that "warriors culture" was about them and their system, their intensity/rage/unhingedness, their dealmaking, their eye for talent, their wiggle, their athleticism, their 3pt barrages, etc.

They have all been wrong. Warriors culture WAS (and I do mean "was") about Steph Curry. It was about shaping the game around an unselfish force of nature and doing whatever was most important to put Steph in position as the tip of the spear WITHOUT Steph demanding it. They were all guys holding the spear, and their role was important, but they all wanted and have taken MORE. More limelight, more money, more self interest, more attention and it's broken something really important. Something really special.

I'm mourning this team at this point. Camelot is over. They disrespected what they built an have made it less. The diminishing skills years won't survive the new selfish team culture, and you can't develop OR attract good players within it.

The executive who has the courage to recognize that it's time to blow this up will be the hero we need. Curry's clock is ticking and there's probably just enough time for a rebuild to get him back in position for one more chip.

Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

azwfan wrote:

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

Well, definitely Klay but how do you think a guy like Looney who worked his ass off for his opportunity feels about a couple of young players, one who just got paid handsomely, acting entitled to something they haven't earned? I doubt Kerr would be so public about it if the locker room was divided rather than those two being out on an island by themselves.

gst8 wrote:

azwfan wrote:

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

Well, definitely Klay but how do you think a guy like Looney who worked his ass off for his opportunity feels about a couple of young players, one who just got paid handsomely, acting entitled to something they haven't earned? I doubt Kerr would be so public about it if the locker room was divided rather than those two being out on an island by themselves.

Looney was the one vet who took draymond’s attack the most seriously. He later apparently volunteered to play in the substitute units more often to help lift them up. Looney has had nothing negative to say about the players outside of the core, and putting those words in his mouth is beyond speculative.

azwfan wrote:

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

I getting the sense that a lot of the division was about the hypocrisy of protecting Klay’s privilege as he was the guy stinking without accountability and getting tons of minutes. If we are allowed to start making up opinions for players who haven’t spoke, I’m gonna claim that part of why Dray punched Poole is because Poole was roasting Klay’s fat ass in camp.

Klay also had flat out the WORST teammate bodylanguage all season long and Kerr didn’t seem willing to point the dirty end of the “championship mentality” stick at him.

Klay’s suck was a major source of the chemistry problem for this team

It does seem like JP and JK are taking heat here, but this all could be said of Klay as well. Who's to say Kerr isn't thinking about Klay when he's saying everyone's goal needs to be about winning?

Sleepy51 wrote:

gst8 wrote:

azwfan wrote:For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

Well, definitely Klay but how do you think a guy like Looney who worked his ass off for his opportunity feels about a couple of young players, one who just got paid handsomely, acting entitled to something they haven't earned? I doubt Kerr would be so public about it if the locker room was divided rather than those two being out on an island by themselves.

Looney was the one vet who took draymond’s attack the most seriously. He later apparently volunteered to play in the substitute units more often to help lift them up. Looney has had nothing negative to say about the players outside of the core, and putting those words in his mouth is beyond speculative.

It's all speculative and Looney's relatively cookie cutter response to the Draymond situation specifically has nothing to do with how he may feel about the rest of it. It's entirely reasonable that he disapproved of Draymond punching a teammate and the attitude of Poole and Kuminga.

Onus wrote:It does seem like JP and JK are taking heat here, but this all could be said of Klay as well. Who's to say Kerr isn't thinking about Klay when he's saying everyone's goal needs to be about winning?

A lot of the clip I heard was about the attitude and reactions of the guys who played less vs the guys who played more. Klay played more so at least that part of Kerr’s take wasn’t about him…and he was turrible

Sleepy51 wrote:

Onus wrote:It does seem like JP and JK are taking heat here, but this all could be said of Klay as well. Who's to say Kerr isn't thinking about Klay when he's saying everyone's goal needs to be about winning?

A lot of the clip I heard was about the attitude and reactions of the guys who played less vs the guys who played more. Klay played more so at least that part of Kerr’s take wasn’t about him…and he was turrible

I agree klay was really bad and he doesn't get any flack.

Sleepy51 wrote:

azwfan wrote:

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

For the record “everyone” = Steph, Dray, and maybe Klay.

I getting the sense that a lot of the division was about the hypocrisy of protecting Klay’s privilege as he was the guy stinking without accountability and getting tons of minutes. If we are allowed to start making up opinions for players who haven’t spoke, I’m gonna claim that part of why Dray punched Poole is because Poole was roasting Klay’s fat ass in camp.

Klay also had flat out the WORST teammate bodylanguage all season long and Kerr didn’t seem willing to point the dirty end of the “championship mentality” stick at him.

Klay’s suck was a major source of the chemistry problem for this team

I think its all of it.

The punch.
The reaction to the punch.
Klays insecurity
Klay’s play
Poole’s cockiness
Poole’s play
JK’s ambition
Draymond’s mouth
Draynond’s antics
The leaks
The seemingly lack of accountability for the big 3
The conflict between who management is drafting and what the coach is being asked to do.

If its one young player its easy to check their ego / mouth / ambition. When half the roster are 20 yr olds, it gets tougher. And then the “core” having seemingly different rules when Steph is the only one performing at a high level consistently.

Onus wrote:I haven't looked at the 2024 class but it seems like there's a lot of bigs and big wings at the top of the draft may not be a bad time to tank ...

Though I think 2025 may be better with cooper flagg

2024 sucks

2025 also sucks

Cooper Flagg is 2026 unless he reclasses into 2025

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

this

and im pretty sure no one on the team actually likes Poole at this point, and it's not a team with a history of disliking their teammates. but im sure the usual suspects here will make sure to defend Poole's honor.

clyde21 wrote:

gst8 wrote:Steph is my litmus test for this stuff. He's as easy going as it comes and for him to have to address the team, reportedly specifically Poole and Kuminga, it tells me what I need to know about their behavior behind the scenes. When seemingly everyone on the team has had it with you, it's you.

this

and im pretty sure no one on the team actually likes Poole at this point, and it's not a team with a history of disliking their teammates. but im sure the usual suspects here will make sure to defend Poole's honor.

It seems like they soured on him, I dont think it was always like this. But there's a lot of history with Poole being polarizing and we're seeing it play out:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767157-michigan-sparkplug-jordan-poole-was-made-for-march-heroics-its-who-he-is


https://theathletic.com/172903/2017/12/03/michigan-wolverines-freshman-class-jordan-poole-eli-brooks-isaiah-livers-john-beilein/?redirected=1



https://theathletic.com/283370/2018/03/22/you-dont-know-jordan-poole/



https://theathletic.com/941530/2019/04/23/the-story-behind-jordan-pooles-all-in-decision-on-the-nba-draft/

CDM_Stats wrote:

clyde21 wrote:
this

and im pretty sure no one on the team actually likes Poole at this point, and it's not a team with a history of disliking their teammates. but im sure the usual suspects here will make sure to defend Poole's honor.

It seems like they soured on him, I dont think it was always like this. But there's a lot of history with Poole being polarizing and we're seeing it play out:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767157-michigan-sparkplug-jordan-poole-was-made-for-march-heroics-its-who-he-is

Spoiler:

During one early game, junior center Moe Wagner had flagged Poole on consecutive possessions for a pair of infractions that the freshman would later describe as "little baby fouls." On the next trip down the floor, Poole jockeyed with junior forward Brent Hibbitts for a rebound. When Hibbitts leapt to gather the miss, Poole pushed him in midair. And when Hibbitts called the obvious foul, Poole collected the ball and hurled it at his teammate.

Hibbitts got in Poole's face. Poole pushed him. Hibbitts pushed back. As they were about to come to blows, teammates pulled them apart. The game continued, but the message was sent. Poole didn't even know all of his teammates' names yet, but he had communicated clearly to each of them that no matter the place or the opponent, he would be fearless.

https://theathletic.com/172903/2017/12/03/michigan-wolverines-freshman-class-jordan-poole-eli-brooks-isaiah-livers-john-beilein/?redirected=1

Spoiler:

After spending his senior year at powerhouse La Lumiere School in La Porte, Indiana, Poole arrived at Michigan this summer as a slender shooting guard who didn’t have a place in the rotation. In early practices, he widened that chasm by taking the most 3s while shooting the lowest percentage; and by committing the most turnovers, while playing the least defense.

Of late, though, Poole’s game has found an equilibrium. Those capabilities Beilein once saw are coming in waves.

“He just needed to be good before he tried to be great,” Beilein said. “Great players take good shots, make good plays.”

https://theathletic.com/283370/2018/03/22/you-dont-know-jordan-poole/

Spoiler:

When it comes to Poole, both of his sides are worth knowing and understanding. He won’t reconcile his differences, those who know him will tell you, because this is who he is

...

But there’s the other side, too. Poole’s wealth of confidence can be misappropriated funds, often resembling arrogance. He’s not one to stand in line. When he arrived at Michigan, he gave approximately zero damns about his place in the pecking order. He fired up whatever shots he wanted. He got into a scuffle with walk-on Brent Hibbitts in the first week of practice and fired a ball at him — a scene that, if you know Brent Hibbitts, sounds preposterous.

https://theathletic.com/941530/2019/04/23/the-story-behind-jordan-pooles-all-in-decision-on-the-nba-draft/

Spoiler:

As Jordan Poole noted in a conversation before Michigan’s team banquet last week, and as his father repeated by phone Tuesday, both believe Jordan’s opportunities to showcase his game were mostly limited by the particulars of Michigan’s roster and his role in the offense.

Jordan Poole said last week that he wished he could have exhibited his ball-handling and overall offensive repertoire by playing more out of ball-screen sets. Instead, his primary usage came on set shots and in isolation situations. His father echoed the sentiment Tuesday, saying, “It’s nothing bad, but the way the offense is, to keep (Zavier Simpson) on the floor, you have to keep him as a ball-dominant point guard. That’s how you use (Simpson) in the best way. … That’s just the way it is. It’s not the fault of (Simpson) or anybody else, but it limits what Jordan can do.”

BTW, this kinda lays out the blueprint for how to use Poole.. he was a 37% shooter from deep and an elite C&S guy. If he bought into that instead of needing to have the ball in his hands, he could be a lot better

Poole having a history of teammates not liking him makes sense. Even as a rookie there were vets that were complaining about him and telling Draymond to shut him up. And Draymond just laughed and said you shut him up. Now Draymond finally shut him up it's probably too late now.

It's really seems he has that gen z attitude of just taking everything without actually earning anything.

Coxy wrote:

floppymoose wrote:Maybe Klay is like I was at his age and has some real sleep issues. I used to sleep through alarms and miss things. I would turn off alarms in my sleep, not fully understanding what i was doing. It would get integrated into a dream as something else.

I still am that way to some degree but it's alot tamer now than when I was Klay's age.

Sounds like you suffer from a traditional "Pints" issue we have here in Australia. Biggest difference is in Australia your boss usually suffers from the same, so all is understood.

Except I never drank! No drugs either. I am a total square. Except for my love of music.

Onus wrote:Poole having a history of teammates not liking him makes sense. Even as a rookie there were vets that were complaining about him and telling Draymond to shut him up. And Draymond just laughed and said you shut him up. Now Draymond finally shut him up it's probably too late now.

It's really seems he has that gen z attitude of just taking everything without actually earning anything.

Moody younger and he seems to be fine

Just a mentality thing, not generational. It paints the picture that his mentality is "how does this help Jordan Poole?" And in college, thats a bit of a red flag but at least its understandable, save the 'being a good teammate' stuff for when it matters, the NBA. And even to a degree in a rookie contract, as a late 1st round pick, I understand wanting to showcase yourself to get the next contract.

But he's in the NBA, he has a ring, he has a large contract, its time to be part of the machine or get outta town

CDM_Stats wrote:

Onus wrote:Poole having a history of teammates not liking him makes sense. Even as a rookie there were vets that were complaining about him and telling Draymond to shut him up. And Draymond just laughed and said you shut him up. Now Draymond finally shut him up it's probably too late now.

It's really seems he has that gen z attitude of just taking everything without actually earning anything.

Moody younger and he seems to be fine

Just a mentality thing, not generational. It paints the picture that his mentality is "how does this help Jordan Poole?" And in college, thats a bit of a red flag but at least its understandable, save the 'being a good teammate' stuff for when it matters, the NBA. And even to a degree in a rookie contract, as a late 1st round pick, I understand wanting to showcase yourself to get the next contract.

But he's in the NBA, he has a ring, he has a large contract, its time to be part of the machine or get outta town

Moody doesn’t have a gen z attitude. By all accounts he acts like a pro.

Jp literally has it all now. Like he doesn’t need to play for a contract, he just needs to play to win. I guess he wants to prove that he’s an all star? Or that he’s better than Klay and should start over him.

whatisacenter wrote:

floppymoose wrote:Maybe Klay is like I was at his age and has some real sleep issues. I used to sleep through alarms and miss things. I would turn off alarms in my sleep, not fully understanding what i was doing. It would get integrated into a dream as something else.

I still am that way to some degree but it's alot tamer now than when I was Klay's age.

you sound like my son....dude is about to go to college and I worried he won't get out of bed without me there!

Tell him to set his alarm to this. 50 seconds he just starts rage screaming.