Game 81: Warriors vs Pelicans 7pm PDT

[Onus]

I don’t even want the 8th seed anymore. We need the 10th seed and get obliterated in the play in game. We can’t bring back Klay and cp at any cost. This needs to burn to high hell.

[cpower]

we are who we are..we beat bad teams but lost to DEN, MIN, LAC every time. We lost most of the time against NOP and DAL....
we are 50 50 against lakers and suns...yeah its time for next season

[oaktownwarriors87]

Moody was one of the better players tonight but our board overrates Moody. Moody is not starter quality but Klay and Payton are also not starter quality. CP3 may be borderline starter quality for limited minutes but he is a bad fit with the Curry Draymond duo. Curry and Draymond don’t need a 3rd point guard but Iguodala used to be helpful as a 3rd pointguard in our ball movement offense but we are not setting screens and keeping the ball moving like we used to do.

If Moody was the defender many think he is then I would agree give up CP3s offense for Moody’s defense. CP3s offense is arguably better than Moody’s defense. If Moody could constantly provide 2016 Harrison Barnes level offense then I would not be annoyed that Moody is not able to come close to 2016 Iguodala level defense. We need 2016 Klay back but that isn’t going to happen.

Give us a starting quality off guard and give Saric 2016 Bogut’s size and abilities and we become the championship favorites.

Moody hasn't played enough to really make the determination if he is starter quality or not.

Kerr at the start of this season should have insisted on Moody starting for 10 straight games preferably without Klay. Going over the performance of his lineups it seems Draymond's observation that some players don't work great with Steph and Klay because they end up deferring too much may apply to Moody. Moody if he is to maximize his potential needs to be broken free of such timidity. That's less likely to happen if he isn't playing enough.

PLEASE.

This theory that Moody is just waiting to be unlocked if Kerr only had a clue.

The coaches have watched him in games and practices. They know exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are.

Far more than basketball savants on RealGM do. But somehow, if Moody got 30 minutes a game, he'd be this quality starter, all-star even.

Because the experts on the forums know more than the coaches who watch and work with him every day do.

Has he EARNED more minutes or does he need more minutes to PROVE you savants right?

It's as if the draft nerds who watched all the Youtube videos of prospects at 15-years old KNOW which ones should be getting more minutes t age 20 or 21.

I'm pretty sure it was you giving the same excuses for Kerr not playing TJD with Draymond. We're just silly fans that don't watch practices. Well, now that Kerr has FINALLY played them together they are the teams best defensive duo with a 99.2 drtg. Who would have thought, right?

In 200 minutes Moody and Curry are +15.4 when they don't play with the old, slow guys that can't defend (Corey Joseph, Klay Thompson, Chris Paul & Dario Saric).

The only duos in playoff position with a worse defensive rating than Curry/Klay (minimum 1,000 minutes) are:

Wiggins/Thompson
Giannis/Portis
Price/Reaves

But I'm sure Steve Kerr is infallible just like you say he is. Moody not getting more of Thompsons minutes must be explained by the practices we don't watch.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Our starting line up had a 130 ortg and a 65 drtg. How were they not the most played 5 man unit. We won on the backs of defense for the last 10 or so games with that unit.

When push came to shove, kerr did not want to play defense. Our 3 guard line ups got crushed on defense.

3 of our 5 most played 5 man units included 3 guards with drtg of: 116, 115, 190.

You can play small for stretches if you can get buckets. But if your small guards can't score (cp3, and especially podz) what's the point since they can't defend either. the pels were just kicking out for one of their 6"7 wings to just shoot over podz, cp3, or steph. I don't blame the team for those trey logo 3s, not much you are going to do with that.

We also seemed to openly give up on switches when we don't have switchable defenders, something we weren't doing as often the past 10 games. And a zone was pointless when playing 3 guys under 6"3 vs this team.

Imo, podz was the only guy that played bad. I thought everyone else was overall good considering they were playing with a pair of kerr handcuffs.

Steph was a space cadet with those turnovers and just gassed, but he kept us aflot offensively.
Klay was fine other than a couple of defensive lapses.
Dray was a beast defensively, but was terrified to shoot.
Wiggs didn't shoot well, but he lived at the ft line and made them.
Tjd was probably the best overall player abd deserved more minutes.
And moody needed more minutes, but not from the starters. He needed to get them from podz and cp3.

Play the starters more and we likely win.

[Onus]

Our starting line up had a 130 ortg and a 65 drtg. How were they not the most played 5 man unit. We won on the backs of defense for the last 10 or so games with that unit.

When push came to shove, kerr did not want to play defense. Our 3 guard line ups got crushed on defense.

3 of our 5 most played 5 man units included 3 guards with drtg of: 116, 115, 190.

You can play small for stretches if you can get buckets. But if your small guards can't score (cp3, and especially podz) what's the point since they can't defend either. the pels were just kicking out for one of their 6"7 wings to just shoot over podz, cp3, or steph. I don't blame the team for those trey logo 3s, not much you are going to do with that.

We also seemed to openly give up on switches when we don't have switchable defenders, something we weren't doing as often the past 10 games. And a zone was pointless when playing 3 guys under 6"3 vs this team.

Imo, podz was the only guy that played bad. I thought everyone else was overall good considering they were playing with a pair of kerr handcuffs.

Steph was a space cadet with those turnovers and just gassed, but he kept us aflot offensively.
Klay was fine other than a couple of defensive lapses.
Dray was a beast defensively, but was terrified to shoot.
Wiggs didn't shoot well, but he lived at the ft line and made them.
Tjd was probably the best overall player abd deserved more minutes.
And moody needed more minutes, but not from the starters. He needed to get them from podz and cp3.

Play the starters more and we likely win.

As soon as green played Zion at center, Kerr breathed a sigh of relief and was like yes I can play my 3 guards and get killed. Thank you for going small because I want to go smaller. I love not being able to rebound or close out with short midgets then I can just blame it not giving out the effort. Just couldn’t come up with those loose balls with my midgets. Really it feels like Kerr is just sabotaging so Klay and cp3 aren’t on the team next year. Hopefully mdj obliges.

[Onus]

Kerr had all year to figure out that curry/cp3/Klay can’t close the game and then with the season on the line he closes the game with that lineup. Just absolutely insane. He kept doing the same thing all year and the results have been the same all year Ls

[WarriorGM]

Our starting line up had a 130 ortg and a 65 drtg. How were they not the most played 5 man unit. We won on the backs of defense for the last 10 or so games with that unit.

That point really should be the end of discussion of this topic.

The Dubs had a starting lineup that was +15 for the game and the coaching staff despite having found this effective lineup abandoned it in favor of lineups that have drawn criticism all year.

It's one thing if the team simply wasn't good enough. I can accept that. But it was good enough.

Coaching incompetence? Coaching sabotage? Coaching malpractice?

[ILOVEIT]

This team still really lacks a quality SG to pair with Steph. It's been a big issue all season, and it's more apparent vs. good teams. Swarm Steph, and there is no guard that can make them pay. Steph is going to continue to get older, to me it's the #1 problem.

And WTF was that sub choice when Steph entered on a 12-1 run? Obvious time to sub out CP3, but somehow MOODY of all players is subbed out. The run immediately stopped. CP3 is a *backup* point guard at age 38, about to turn 39. He is a very good backup point guard, but not the right player to pair with Steph in crunch time. If you really want to keep him in, then Klay must come out. Immediately Klay shot the worst shot of the game, and it was so obvious what was going to happen as soon as Kerr's stupid sub choice went down

You will be able to point to Kerr's obsession with playing two smallish guards as the reason why Warriors failed to defend the three point shot. Curry and CP3 are the worse defender combination of guards in the league and atrocious defending three point line.

[ILOVEIT]

Moody hasn't played enough to really make the determination if he is starter quality or not.

Kerr at the start of this season should have insisted on Moody starting for 10 straight games preferably without Klay. Going over the performance of his lineups it seems Draymond's observation that some players don't work great with Steph and Klay because they end up deferring too much may apply to Moody. Moody if he is to maximize his potential needs to be broken free of such timidity. That's less likely to happen if he isn't playing enough.

PLEASE.

This theory that Moody is just waiting to be unlocked if Kerr only had a clue.

The coaches have watched him in games and practices. They know exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are.

Far more than basketball savants on RealGM do. But somehow, if Moody got 30 minutes a game, he'd be this quality starter, all-star even.

Because the experts on the forums know more than the coaches who watch and work with him every day do.

Has he EARNED more minutes or does he need more minutes to PROVE you savants right?

It's as if the draft nerds who watched all the Youtube videos of prospects at 15-years old KNOW which ones should be getting more minutes t age 20 or 21.

I'm pretty sure it was you giving the same excuses for Kerr not playing TJD with Draymond. We're just silly fans that don't watch practices. Well, now that Kerr has FINALLY played them together they are the teams best defensive duo with a 99.2 drtg. Who would have thought, right?

In 200 minutes Moody and Curry are +15.4 when they don't play with the old, slow guys that can't defend (Corey Joseph, Klay Thompson, Chris Paul & Dario Saric).

The only duos in playoff position with a worse defensive rating than Curry/Klay (minimum 1,000 minutes) are:

Wiggins/Thompson
Giannis/Portis
Price/Reaves

But I'm sure Steve Kerr is infallible just like you say he is. Moody not getting more of Thompsons minutes must be explained by the practices we don't watch.

Amen and as far as practice "Practice! We talkin' ''bout PRACTICE?!"

Facts: Kerr did not play Kuminga at ends of games for most the season, pulling him in close games we lost. Kuminga ended up being one of the most impactful, dynamic player on the team DESPITE that.

Kerr failed to recognize the amazing defensive combination of Draymond and TJD until 80% of the season was over.

These two alone PROVE that Kerr was slow to recognize potential of younger talent and this likely cosst the Warriors at least 5 games.

[ILOVEIT]

A great point guard does not roll out 7 turnovers in the biggest game of the year.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Moody hasn't played enough to really make the determination if he is starter quality or not.

Kerr at the start of this season should have insisted on Moody starting for 10 straight games preferably without Klay. Going over the performance of his lineups it seems Draymond's observation that some players don't work great with Steph and Klay because they end up deferring too much may apply to Moody. Moody if he is to maximize his potential needs to be broken free of such timidity. That's less likely to happen if he isn't playing enough.

PLEASE.

This theory that Moody is just waiting to be unlocked if Kerr only had a clue.

The coaches have watched him in games and practices. They know exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are.

Far more than basketball savants on RealGM do. But somehow, if Moody got 30 minutes a game, he'd be this quality starter, all-star even.

Because the experts on the forums know more than the coaches who watch and work with him every day do.

Has he EARNED more minutes or does he need more minutes to PROVE you savants right?

It's as if the draft nerds who watched all the Youtube videos of prospects at 15-years old KNOW which ones should be getting more minutes t age 20 or 21.

I'm pretty sure it was you giving the same excuses for Kerr not playing TJD with Draymond. We're just silly fans that don't watch practices. Well, now that Kerr has FINALLY played them together they are the teams best defensive duo with a 99.2 drtg. Who would have thought, right?

In 200 minutes Moody and Curry are +15.4 when they don't play with the old, slow guys that can't defend (Corey Joseph, Klay Thompson, Chris Paul & Dario Saric).

The only duos in playoff position with a worse defensive rating than Curry/Klay (minimum 1,000 minutes) are:

Wiggins/Thompson
Giannis/Portis
Price/Reaves

But I'm sure Steve Kerr is infallible just like you say he is. Moody not getting more of Thompsons minutes must be explained by the practices we don't watch.

Did Kerr ever say anything about not wanting to play Draymond and Trayce together? Did a few on our board come up with that theory because Kerr did not happen to play Draymond and Trayce together?

Looney had a bad start to his season. Saric can’t defend. Kerr only plays rookies when he has to play rookies. Trayce did not play the 1st month. Trayce burst onto the scene very impactful after Kerr got desperate about how bad Looney and Saric were playing. Trayce was not as good in January and February as he was in November. Draymond and Trayce did not play together in December because Draymond was suspended. It might have been more that Kerr wanted to play Trayce with Chris Paul and did not want to play Chris Paul with Draymond.

Wiggins and Klay racked up horrible plus minus together early in the season when Wiggins and Klay and looney were playing bad but starting and Curry was playing bad in the first 7 minutes of games. Our starting group was getting us into holes in the 1st quarters. Do too old guys start games more poorly than they play 3rd quarters? Do they need more time to warm up? Does it take old guys longer to get interested in playing hard?

Good that Wiggins is playing better now.

Trayce can block shots. Nobody else on the team can block shots. Klay will occasionally have 2 block games like he did last night but Klay is not a shot blocker and Klay is blocking shots based on length and timing. Klay can not jump. I could understand Kerr not playing Dray and Trayce together based on wanting to have Trayce on the floor as a shot blocker while Dray rests. You need Trayce more when Dray rests. But Trayce does not have the defensive IQ of Looney. I think Trayce is will have a high basketball IQ but he is still a Rookie.

Looney is playing better lately. I wish we had 2 guys that had the best qualities of Trayce, Looney, Saric, JaVale and 2016 Bogut including Bogut’s size. Trayce is the most mobile of these centers followed by JaVale. JaVale entertained me with his ability to steer off the mark bad lob passes into the basket with one hand. We need JaVale and Bogut’s size. Bogut is the only player I can think of who set 3 point line screens while the ball was in his hands to be the passer. Actually Dray does a bit of passer screen setting but not as much as Bogut. I am still a bit traumatized by Steven Adams pushing Bogut around in the 2016 playoffs like Bogut was a rag doll but Bogut may have been playing injured in that series. I am going to add Steven Adams to my Frakenstien center center because while Bogut was tall enough Adams made Bogut look like he was not strong enough. So 2 Adams Trayce Looney, Saric (for shooting) JaVale Bogut centers so that we have our center and back up center.

Then best of Current and 2016 Curry, Dray and Klay and since I am dreaming of best qualities of both players Frankenstein lets add 1982 Magic Johnson to Draymond, 1982 Norm Nixon to Curry to fix Curry poor footspeed weakness, 1982 Wilkes to to Klay, 1982 Cooper to Wiggins, 1982 Rambis to my 2 Frakenstein centers. 2016 passing Warriors and 1982 Fast breaking Lakers were the 2 prettiest teams I iver saw but what about inside scoring and gritty toughness. 1984 Celtics offensive rebounded their way to a championship beating a better Laker team. So lets add 1984 Bird the toughest grittyest player I ever saw to Magic and Draymond creating a 6’ 9 version of of Draymond. Bird was a prettier better passer than Draymond and Magic and tough as nails. Magic was only 6’ 7”. Don’t want to raise Dray and Magics’s dribble further from the floor by being 6’ 9” so lets give this player a 3 inch arm extension. Add 1984 Cdric Maxwell a great inside scorer and offensive rebounder to Wiggins, Cooper and add 3rd passer from the 2016 Warriors Iguodala to the Wiggins Cooper Maxwell player.

Add 1984 Robert Parish to my 2 Trayce Looney, Saric, JaVale, Bogut Steven Adams Rambis players.
But what about Kuminga who would be nice with the 1982 showtime Lakers? OK add a 2nd copy of 1982 Wilkes and 2016 Iguodala to Kuminga.

Give me the Frakenstein superteam version of the Warriors. Current Warriors, pretty 2016 Warriors, pretty 1982 Lakers and gritty 1984 Celtics.

Trace is good but not big enough. Trayce not playing with Draymond was probably more about which units needed Trayce than about keeping Trayce and Draymond separate. Kerr only plays rookies when he has to. He had to play Trayce for shot blocking help defense when Draymond was not on the floor for help defense.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

We looked overwhelmed physically tonight, and we had as well in an earlier season matchup. It’s tough spotting an opponent the size and speed advantage. For as much as the announcers talked up the Pelicans not missing from 3 a lot of it was just us helping down low to cover size mismatches and getting burned on basic kick outs. A lot of games we get burned on 3’s from helping out to cover the lack of size inside, and when we do try to recover out on 3 we overplay the recovery and get destroyed on the dribble penetration of closing out too hard.

Some of these lineups like Steph, CP3, Podz all together just leaves so much room for mismatches that can be exploited in a multitude of ways. Our guys can dig in and fight but you have such a slim margin for error. It’s not encouraging that these guys had to go balls to the wall at home vs the Pelicans without Brandon Ingram to compete.

I agree completely. Well, since July I spent a lot of time to write about rotations in different threads. The coaching staff is a big disappointment in this area.
This game: Dray 36, TJD 22, Loon 8 minutes combined for 66 minutes so we played 30 minutes with a small guy at PF...
With JK out the minute distribution for this game should be:
PF GREEN 36, GARUBA/SARIC 12
C JACKSON-DAVIS 36, LOONEY 12
So 3 combos would always be on the floor providing stability:
Green and Jackson-Davis
Green and Looney
Garuba/Saric and Jackson-Davis
(stay away from Garuba/Saric and Looney combo)

I do not like Saric with Looney because neither of them have power forward speed. Curry and Chris Paul are not fast. Klay is slow. So not enough speed. When opposing guards blow past our slow guards Looney and Saric are not shot blockers. Saric is one of the slowest players in the NBA. Saric is smart and gritty but he is not big enough in addition to being too slow. Without the 3 point shooting center gimmick Saric would not be in the NBA. Take away Saric’s 3 point shot and Saric would need to be looking for work in the Mongolian basketball league.

Trayce could use Looney or Draymond’s baskeball understanding. Looney could use Trayc’s ability to jump and Traye’s feel for the shot blocking game. Both Trayce and Looney could use being 7 foot tall and strong.

Looney and Draymond was good enough to win a championship in 2022 but Trayce brings shot blocking.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

Our starting line up had a 130 ortg and a 65 drtg. How were they not the most played 5 man unit. We won on the backs of defense for the last 10 or so games with that unit.

When push came to shove, kerr did not want to play defense. Our 3 guard line ups got crushed on defense.

3 of our 5 most played 5 man units included 3 guards with drtg of: 116, 115, 190.

You can play small for stretches if you can get buckets. But if your small guards can't score (cp3, and especially podz) what's the point since they can't defend either. the pels were just kicking out for one of their 6"7 wings to just shoot over podz, cp3, or steph. I don't blame the team for those trey logo 3s, not much you are going to do with that.

We also seemed to openly give up on switches when we don't have switchable defenders, something we weren't doing as often the past 10 games. And a zone was pointless when playing 3 guys under 6"3 vs this team.

Imo, podz was the only guy that played bad. I thought everyone else was overall good considering they were playing with a pair of kerr handcuffs.

Steph was a space cadet with those turnovers and just gassed, but he kept us aflot offensively.
Klay was fine other than a couple of defensive lapses.
Dray was a beast defensively, but was terrified to shoot.
Wiggs didn't shoot well, but he lived at the ft line and made them.
Tjd was probably the best overall player abd deserved more minutes.
And moody needed more minutes, but not from the starters. He needed to get them from podz and cp3.

Play the starters more and we likely win.

If I call Podz and Klay small forwards are we still playing a lot of 3 guards? Podz rebounds better than Kuminga.

[thunderdunk]

My recap: TJD still looks great. Fantastic add to a team that needed a 5. Dubs needed JK tonight, didn't have him. 7 TO's from Steph. I swear he doesn't understand how much that hurts the team. Podz was -25 tonight. Was he on the floor for all of those Pels threes? Dubs -21 on threes tonight. They can't win if they're -21 on threes. Bad luck or bad defense? Some of both. Draymond took 0 shots tonight. Pels recognized that and stopped covering him. Pels announcers even commented on it. Whatever happens in the play-in and/or playoffs, Dubs need some major roster changes this off season. Klay and CP3 are too slow. Looney has looked gassed all year. Saric was a rental and will be gone. Hopefully MDJ pulls the trigger on some major moves.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

I like Curry’s defensive mind and techniques but he is missing foot speed.

So my latest Frankenstein team. Current Warriors. Steph klay and Dray plus ths their 2016 selves. Looney plus Tack Fall to give us a truly big center with Tacko Fall’s foot speed and IQ fixed by Looney.
Steph plus above average point guard foot speed.

With those modifications I think the Warriors should be the championship favorites.

But in reality our dynasty is over and we are no longer championship contenders.
Kuminga Trayce and Podz would be a good supporting cast for 2016 Step Klay and Dray but 2016 Steph Klay and Dray are gone.

Kuminga will not be the best player on a championship team. Trayce and Podz with projected improvement from experience may never be better than 6th man level players. Moody may never be better than 8th man level material. Payton is not young. Quinones and Santos may never be better than 9th man level players.

Kuminga might be a chamionship level 2nd best player if he has one more year of improvement as great as his last year of improvement. I will call Podz and Trayce 5th starter and 6th man. So our future Post Curry championship are missing their best player, and their 3rd and 4th best players. Wiggins will be done before we can get a new best player, 3rd and 4th best player.

So we might as well forget about championships and Kuminga’s timeline and mortgage our future to have the best non-championship teams we can have until Curry retires.

When Curry retires trade Kuminga for draft picks. Hit bottom and get into the lottery. Maybe keep Moody as the only guy that remembers the 2022 Warriors on our 2035 Championship team on which Moody Trayce and Podz will be old guys who barely play.

Lakers and Pistons are the only 2 teams since the 3 point shot arrived in 1980 that have won a 2nd championship with an entirely new group of players in less than 20 years. Celtics won their last Championship in 2008 and will probably get a new championship before 2028. Duncan Spurs won championships with new players but both groups had Duncan.

We are not likely to win a post Curry championship with Kuminga because Wiseman was a bust and Moody is nothing special.
When Curry is gone Kuminga should be very good should be traded for draft picks to set up a new timeline. Trayce, Podz and Moody should also be traded for draft picks when Curry is gone. Trayce, Podz and Moody will all be too old too lead our next group of young stars to a championship.

I don’t know that Moody and Kuminga are leadership material. Podz and Trayce don’t have rings. Doubt that Wiggins is leadership material. I think Looney might be leadership material but he will be retired before our next crop of future stars can contend for a championship.

Young Curry, Klay, Dray and Barnes were better than Kuminga, Moody, Podz and Trayce. With old Curry, Klay, Dray, and medium age Looney and Wiggins we are not bad enough to get lottery picks. For sentimental reasons I do not want to send Curry, Klay and Dray to other teams. So our rebuilding is delayed if I get my wish but that pushes are next championship beyond Kuminga’s timeline.

[xdrta+]

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[vvoland]

Our starting line up had a 130 ortg and a 65 drtg. How were they not the most played 5 man unit. We won on the backs of defense for the last 10 or so games with that unit.

That point really should be the end of discussion of this topic.

The Dubs had a starting lineup that was +15 for the game and the coaching staff despite having found this effective lineup abandoned it in favor of lineups that have drawn criticism all year.

It's one thing if the team simply wasn't good enough. I can accept that. But it was good enough.

Coaching incompetence? Coaching sabotage? Coaching malpractice?

I really do like to blame Kerr as much as the next guy but we were the better team for the majority of this game. For one quarter of it, we played like a junior varsity team on offense - 9 TOs and the pels shot 10/13 from 3. It's very difficult to shoot that well on wide open threes and the majority of those makes were pretty well contested.

Can we blame the rotations some? Sure. How about Steph turning it over in the 4th or dray not attempting a single FG? Ok. But the game was lost in the 2nd. What are we even talking about?

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

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What has Garuba done this year in G-league?
Garuba has experience as an undersized center and proved he could do that at a mediocre to slightly poor NBA level.
I think Garuba is really a power forward.

I think Garuba would be the Warriors 2nd best shot blocker behind Trayce and slightly better than Draymond. Not a particularly good shot blocker but still our 2nd best shot blocker.

Too answer my own question, Garuba’s Santa Cruz stats are not bad but they do not scream this is an NBA player. Garuba is not dominant at the G-leage level.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/gleague/teams/SCW/2024.html

[Onus]

Read on Twitter

What’s the point he hasn’t played with the real team all year. They must like him though.

[SinceGatlingWasARookie]

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What’s the point he hasn’t played with the real team all year. They must like him though.

If Kuminga, Draymond or Trayce get injured we will have a use for Garuba but don’t expect much from him.

If Kuminga, Draymond and Trayce are healthy Garuba won’t play except in garbage time.