Dray impact

[Crazy-Canuck]

I looked at us post 12-3 start vs the last 9 without dray.

We are hunting for a no.2, but didn't think it was our biggest issue. So, decided to do some digging and to see how we fare without dray. I excluded the one off games because I think extended misses tell us more about impact.

11/23-1/13
24th best record

Ortg 107.8 (27th)
Drtg 113.6 (20th)

3pta 41.5 (4th)
3 pt% 34.9 (22nd)

Fta 17.9 (29th)
Ft% 71.8 (30th)

To 14.3 (15th)

Clutch time 6-11

Off rtg 95 (25th)
Def rtg 116.2 (23rd)

Since dray got hurt (last 9 games. I excluded the pacers game because we sat everyone.)

12th best record

Ortg 115.8 (14th)
Drtg 117 (23rd)

3 pta 46 (1st)
3 pt% 37.4 (10th)

Fta 20 (23rd)
Ft% 77.2 (18th)

To: 13.2 (10th)

Clutch time 4-2 (3rd best)

Off rtg 132.5 (7th)
Def rtg 142.9 (24th)

I heard a theory that dray forces feeds steph so much that it's harder for guys to get into rhythm offensively. The stats seem to back it up. Since drays injury, our offense has been much better. We have turned into a decent Ft shooting team, get to the line more, and turn the ball over less. We also shoot and make more 3s. Less non shooters + more shooters = better offense. Weird concept.

I also believed that we didn't lack a no.2 option, but lacked a 3rd or sometimes 4th scorer. (Podz didnt play enough)

5-4
Steph 21.3 ppg
Wiggs 20.8 ppg
Schroeder 12.3 ppg


In wins

Steph 24.8 ppg
Wiggs 23.6 ppg
Schroeder 15 ppg
Moody 12 ppg
*everyone else 10 or under

In losses
Steph 17.8 ppg
Wiggs 17.3 ppg
*everyone else 10 or under

We badly need a consistent 3rd scorer to emerge to offset a bad night from either steph or wiggins. We have 10 guys averaging 10 ppg or less.

Just to compare, the wizards went 0-9. Their 3rd, 4th, and 5th best scorers avg more points than our 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

And without dray our offense isn't bad, but defense falls apart. If he can be less involved in the offense, but still be himself on defense, we might be cooking if we add a 3rd scorer.

[Onus]

I think it’s pretty clear if we need to trade for a larger contract it should probably be dray that is moved.

We really need a consistent scorer. When we went on the 12-3 start it was because buddy was on fire and provided explosive scoring. That’s what made us so tough to guard.

I do think dray has some uses but it’s more likely as a back up center. We can’t afford to play both dray and looney together like we used to unless we are able to score.

Really if buddy can find his shot I really don’t think we’re that far off from competing. The 5 seed is only 3 games away from us.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I think it’s pretty clear if we need to trade for a larger contract it should probably be dray that is moved.

We really need a consistent scorer. When we went on the 12-3 start it was because buddy was on fire and provided explosive scoring. That’s what made us so tough to guard.

I do think dray has some uses but it’s more likely as a back up center. We can’t afford to play both dray and looney together like we used to unless we are able to score.

Really if buddy can find his shot I really don’t think we’re that far off from competing. The 5 seed is only 3 games away from us.

I kinda agree, I think in house improvement is our best path.

By trading wiggs for lavine or Butler looks like a lateral movement because we lack scoring depth more than scoring talent.
I dont think we shoukd trade dray either, his impact on defense is clear as day.

Yes, we got off to a hot start because heild lit it up.
Post 12-3 start, our offense really struggled as a team. Heild couldn't hit a shot and still can't. The other issue was kuminga. He put up good individual numbers, but it took its toll on the team. They were too intent on running everything and I mean everything through him.

Post 12-3 till he got hurt, he had a 29 usg (steph 27) highest on the team and became an inefficient volume scorer. However, the last couple of games before his injury, he became more of a secondary scorer playing off of others instead of hunting his own shots. Our ortg sky rocketed from 106 ortg to 121.

Jk doesn't need to start, but if he comes in and gives u 30 minutes of team offense along with steph and wiggins..that might be better than any trade we can make.

[cpower]

check my thread - we need some consistent scoring other than Curry and Wiggins. Its strange because the rest of the league having players just good at making threes but nothing else - which boosts TS% and offense efficiency. unfortunately our role players also bad at finishing at the rim and shooting threes ..... this roster is just garbage across the board

[Onus]

I think it’s pretty clear if we need to trade for a larger contract it should probably be dray that is moved.

We really need a consistent scorer. When we went on the 12-3 start it was because buddy was on fire and provided explosive scoring. That’s what made us so tough to guard.

I do think dray has some uses but it’s more likely as a back up center. We can’t afford to play both dray and looney together like we used to unless we are able to score.

Really if buddy can find his shot I really don’t think we’re that far off from competing. The 5 seed is only 3 games away from us.

I kinda agree, I think in house improvement is our best path.

By trading wiggs for lavine or Butler looks like a lateral movement because we lack scoring depth more than scoring talent.
I dont think we shoukd trade dray either, his impact on defense is clear as day.

Yes, we got off to a hot start because heild lit it up.
Post 12-3 start, our offense really struggled as a team. Heild couldn't hit a shot and still can't. The other issue was kuminga. He put up good individual numbers, but it took its toll on the team. They were too intent on running everything and I mean everything through him.

Post 12-3 till he got hurt, he had a 29 usg (steph 27) highest on the team and became an inefficient volume scorer. However, the last couple of games before his injury, he became more of a secondary scorer playing off of others instead of hunting his own shots. Our ortg sky rocketed from 106 ortg to 121.

Jk doesn't need to start, but if he comes in and gives u 30 minutes of team offense along with steph and wiggins..that might be better than any trade we can make.

Butler isn't solving our issue mostly because he doesn't really score in the regular season. I do think Lavine would help but trading for him without wiggins and dray would be really tough, in hindsight trading cp3 for Lavine + 1st would've been a great move.

Yea we ran so much offense through JK and it wasn't good. His last 5 games he was letting the offense create offense for him and it was looking so much better. It's ok being a finisher rather than a creator. AD is a finisher and he's a great player. We really went through an identity crisis trying to pigeon hole people into bigger roles.

It sucks that we have to rely so heavily on Buddy, we really just need someone who can hit open shots and not be sieve on defense. Cam J would be able to do that as well and if he's only going to cost one 1st, we should be on that.

[whatisacenter]

I wish there was a team who wanted to trade for Draymond and that the Warriors wanted to trade him.

[HiRez]

I hope that while Kuminga is spending so much time watching games from the bench, he's seeing two related things. Number one, how much we rely on hitting a lot of 3s, and how bad things look when we're not. Number two, watching players on opposing teams probing for lanes, using screens, and easily knifing in for dunks and layups, while leaving shooters open if the defense does decide to chase them. And from that taking "I can do that" on this team and providing a necessary alternative to chucking 3s.

[DonaldSanders]

Yeah Canuck I agree, been saying for a bit Dray is the one who should be on the block if we do make a move. The team has good enough defense without him, it's really lacking on offense still. I do think our turnovers are down with him out, and I think some of the younger guys step up more in their role. There's more 'trying to fit in' with both Steph and Dray in.

We've needed a 2nd option scorer for a few years now, it's time to go find one or go for a rebuild of the team.

I wish there was a team who wanted to trade for Draymond and that the Warriors wanted to trade him.

Yeah it's unfortunate, I doubt we'll even try shopping him at all. "Loyalty" will be our downfall in making at least one more little run (while also starting the rebuild at the same time by moving off one of the old core guys).

I think it's kind of double dipping on getting better and rebuilding moving Dray, they won't feel the same loyalty to whoever we trade for, and some day we can just move on from that guy. Meanwhile the young guys would grow more.

[RUN-TJM]

Back up 5. That’s his position. Start Post or Looney.

He definitely makes the offence more challenging for some of our younger players. My feeling is that Moody struggles with him and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen here that JK also struggles when sharing the floor.