Do we need to talk about Draymond?

[EvanZ]

Draymond currently sitting on 0.0 VORP (second lowest of his career only his rookie season was worse), and -1.9 BPM (again only rookie season was worse). I feel like the decline has been most noticeable in his passing where he just isn't as sharp as he used to be. Clearly he still has a huge role to play and in high leverage moments you want him out there...but I don't know guys, this team is really being held up by two guys, and it kinda badly needs Draymond to be better than he has been so far.

[DonaldSanders]

It's a reasonable question for sure. His defense is still great, but the problem on offense is when we aren't using him to pass at the top of the key and he has to be an offensive threat, he just isn't one. I'm not counting him out yet, but I do have big interest in what we might be like if Dray became the first guy off the bench. Jimmy subs out at the 7:00 mark, what if Draymond came in then and overall played 100% of the non Jimmy minutes (plus more obviously)?

Genuinely curious about a lineup of:
Post
Jimmy
Moody
Melton
Steph

That's 4 shooters surrounding Jimmy, and I think JB is best when he is playmaking for others. Dray as a 3rd ball handler/hub may be overkill, and subtracts a shooter. Post actually has a top 5 DRTG in the league right now! (albeit on a small sample size)

Dray comes off the bench first and nights where we need Dray more he plays more and closes. I do think that most stats do a bad job representing defense, so Dray comes in a little underrated (I mean look at Klay's BPM some years) but this is something I think we should try. It could be a blessing in disguise if Dray is still a little sore and they decide to limit his minutes and have him come off the bench Friday (doubtful I know).

I think he could flip things around a bit and start playing better, but we should think about all the options on the table. When he plays big minutes it definitely hurts his legs, which hurt his shooting. Maybe 24mpg off the bench might help keep him fresh, and he can then give us the trademark Draymond closing defensive plays without hurting the offense as much. Really just throwing around ideas here.

[Onus]

Yea dray hasn't been good this year and has been really lazy passing the ball just throwing the ball to spots. It also feels like his rebounding has declined even further. Would love to reduce our reliance on dray especially with post showing out and being reliable on defense. Post should be starting a lot of games.

[ILOVEIT]

Yea dray hasn't been good this year and has been really lazy passing the ball just throwing the ball to spots. It also feels like his rebounding has declined even further. Would love to reduce our reliance on dray especially with post showing out and being reliable on defense. Post should be starting a lot of games.

Butler has made Draymond almost irrelevant. Butlers an incredible defender, high IQ on offense and defense...and can score.

As much as Curry stretches the floor, Draymond shrinks it. Nobody guards him so just about every switch on a Draymond pick with Curry ends up leaving two defenders on Curry. In the past that resulted in a dump back to Draymond to either score or tic tac toe it. Teams are figuring that out and....WHY would we WANT two guys jumping Curry with ZERO respect to the roller in Draymond???!!

So now what? Draymond off the bench? Maybe.

My choice would be to bundle Draymond with Kuminga and two picks for AD. Imagine:

Curry, Melton, Butler, AD, Post. EVERY position can score and play defense.

OR

Similar outgoing but bring in Sabonis/Monk

Curry, Melton, Butler, Post, Sabonis. Again, everyone can score, high IQ, defend and rebound.

[Onus]

Yea dray hasn't been good this year and has been really lazy passing the ball just throwing the ball to spots. It also feels like his rebounding has declined even further. Would love to reduce our reliance on dray especially with post showing out and being reliable on defense. Post should be starting a lot of games.

Butler has made Draymond almost irrelevant. Butlers an incredible defender, high IQ on offense and defense...and can score.

As much as Curry stretches the floor, Draymond shrinks it. Nobody guards him so just about every switch on a Draymond pick with Curry ends up leaving two defenders on Curry. In the past that resulted in a dump back to Draymond to either score or tic tac toe it. Teams are figuring that out and....WHY would we WANT two guys jumping Curry with ZERO respect to the roller in Draymond???!!

So now what? Draymond off the bench? Maybe.

My choice would be to bundle Draymond with Kuminga and two picks for AD. Imagine:

Curry, Melton, Butler, AD, Post. EVERY position can score and play defense.

OR

Similar outgoing but bring in Sabonis/Monk

Curry, Melton, Butler, Post, Sabonis. Again, everyone can score, high IQ, defend and rebound.

No to sabonis and monk. Id do the ad trade but I doubt we'd do that nor do I think mavs would accept that.

[HiRez]

It's a reasonable question for sure. His defense is still great, but the problem on offense is when we aren't using him to pass at the top of the key and he has to be an offensive threat, he just isn't one. I'm not counting him out yet, but I do have big interest in what we might be like if Dray became the first guy off the bench. Jimmy subs out at the 7:00 mark, what if Draymond came in then and overall played 100% of the non Jimmy minutes (plus more obviously)?

That's sort of what I've been saying since Jimmy got here. Jimmy duplicates a lot of what Draymond does. Not the blocks at the rim, but as the sort of non-point point directing the offense around, getting the young guys in the right defensive positions, using his experience and BBIQ to set up opportunities, making tight passes on cuts, etc. Jimmy does all that plus he can score a bit himself and draw fouls and knock down the freethrows, which is not really Draymond's domain. Having two of those guys on the floor at the same time is detrimental IMO. Some people would say you can't have too many playmakers, but I disagree with that, it can get a little confusing and usually, you're sacrificing other things — like scoring and spacing — for that playmaking.

[Jax_23]

I'm torn between wanting to see Draymond retire a Warrior and what's good for the team. I still think if they had a real center this thing could flow nicely.

The Warriors would be LUCKY to get Sabonis. Watch the film.

Watch on YouTube

[Onus]

I'm torn between wanting to see Draymond retire a Warrior and what's good for the team. I still think if they had a real center this thing could flow nicely.

The Warriors would be LUCKY to get Sabonis. Watch the film.

Watch on YouTube

Please watch something other than highlights. And stop calling that film.

[xdrta+]

I have nothing against trading Draymond, but it would surprise me if any team gave up anyone worthwhile for him - a 35yr old, no-offense, declining player, not to mention the possible emotional issues you're signing up for.

[Larry Ellison]

Draymond currently sitting on 0.0 VORP (second lowest of his career only his rookie season was worse), and -1.9 BPM (again only rookie season was worse). I feel like the decline has been most noticeable in his passing where he just isn't as sharp as he used to be. Clearly he still has a huge role to play and in high leverage moments you want him out there...but I don't know guys, this team is really being held up by two guys, and it kinda badly needs Draymond to be better than he has been so far.

Respect your takes. It is hard to envision a scenario where we hit our ceiling without Draymond. I'm not able to watch as many games as I used to because I'm in the Eastern time zone now. He has always been a good passer. I think maybe patience is warranted. He is so much of the fabric of the team. I couldn't agree more we need him to be better. He synergizes really well with Jimmy on defense and Steph on offense. I feel like Kerr and the team are playing the long game. I want to see the right rotations, and team improvement as the season progresses. Playoffs are all that matters.

[Jax_23]

I'm torn between wanting to see Draymond retire a Warrior and what's good for the team. I still think if they had a real center this thing could flow nicely.

The Warriors would be LUCKY to get Sabonis. Watch the film.

Watch on YouTube

Please watch something other than highlights. And stop calling that film.

1. He's an all star big, the highlights show his skillset, he is a difference maker, his stats show he is a 20 and 12 player. But instead let's do the status quo that hasn't worked and hold onto guys like Kuminga (fans and GSW FO want him gone), and hope and pray for Moody, Podz, etc. to "develop" lmao. Trading Kuminga for Sabonis would be a STEAL. There's only 5 players on the court at a given time. Roll out a lineup of Curry Melton Butler Draymond Sabonis and roll the dice (why not?). That's 4 players who really know how to play basketball. Rotations shrink in the playoffs. Bring in difference makers, eff the rest.

2. It is film and I'll call things what I want

3. What's the alternative? Giannis? Wemby gonna request a trade? We gonna trade for Jokic? If you want to make a case for mid players and/or some magical perfectionist "future plan" or the "perfect trade," while being categorically against an all star big (while the Warriors are in win-now mode and NEED a center and NEED offensive BALANCE), by all means make that case if you're capable.

[Onus]

I'm torn between wanting to see Draymond retire a Warrior and what's good for the team. I still think if they had a real center this thing could flow nicely.

The Warriors would be LUCKY to get Sabonis. Watch the film.

Watch on YouTube

Please watch something other than highlights. And stop calling that film.

1. He's an all star big, the highlights show his skillset, he is a difference maker, his stats show he is a 20 and 12 player. But by all means let's hold onto guys like Kuminga (fans and GSW FO want him gone), and hope and pray for Moody, Podz, etc. to "develop" lmao. There's only 5 players on the court at a given time. Rotations shrink in the playoffs. Bring in difference makers, eff the rest.

2. It is film

If you want to make a case for mid players and/or some magical perfectionist "future plan" while being against an all star big when the Warriors are in win-now mode and NEED a center and NEED offensive BALANCE, by all means make that argument if you're capable.

He's a fringe all star player. He has some good matchups but he's got bad matchups as well. The main issue is that he's not a good defender. Really hard to be a good team when your center is not a good defender or rim deterrent.

I'm all for trading jk, moody or podz.

How does sabonis fit with jimmy and dray? All 3 aren't shooters. All 3 thrive more with the ball in their hands to play make for others so they're all occupying the same role on offense. It's just a terrible fit. Basketball isn't about just stacking talent, it's about fit and filling different roles. So yes I'd rather have mediocre post playing with jimmy and dray than sabonis.

[Jax_23]

Please watch something other than highlights. And stop calling that film.

1. He's an all star big, the highlights show his skillset, he is a difference maker, his stats show he is a 20 and 12 player. But by all means let's hold onto guys like Kuminga (fans and GSW FO want him gone), and hope and pray for Moody, Podz, etc. to "develop" lmao. There's only 5 players on the court at a given time. Rotations shrink in the playoffs. Bring in difference makers, eff the rest.

2. It is film

If you want to make a case for mid players and/or some magical perfectionist "future plan" while being against an all star big when the Warriors are in win-now mode and NEED a center and NEED offensive BALANCE, by all means make that argument if you're capable.

He's a fringe all star player. He has some good matchups but he's got bad matchups as well. The main issue is that he's not a good defender. Really hard to be a good team when your center is not a good defender or rim deterrent.

I'm all for trading jk, moody or podz.

How does sabonis fit with jimmy and dray? All 3 aren't shooters. All 3 thrive more with the ball in their hands to play make for others so they're all occupying the same role on offense. It's just a terrible fit. Basketball isn't about just stacking talent, it's about fit and filling different roles. So yes I'd rather have mediocre post playing with jimmy and dray than sabonis.

Jimmy never played off ball? Curry can't play off ball? They can't cut, set screens? Good chemistry and IQ doesn't matter? It's exclusively about having the holy grail of "spacing?" Why do people act like Sabonis can only make 2 footers and can never hit a 3? Warriors are 23rd in offense, 23rd in rebounding and dead last in Points in the Paint! I didn't even know that til I looked it up. He fills all of those needs. I agree we need rim protection but who tf do we have now or in some ideal new trade? Q Post? Who else is out there that the Warriors can trade for to protect the rim?

Again, what's the alternative? Status quo? Or is there a better trade out there?

[Onus]

Welcome to 2025

[HiRez]

I don't see Sabonis as a huge upgrade over Post already, and Post is just getting started and getting better by the week. If Kerr plays him 30 mpg (which he should), he should be a clear upgrade to Sabonis by the end of the season. Now if you can bring in Jokic or some Bogut-type player or whatever, sure, I'll play that guy, but who is that? You could probably get Zion for next to nothing right now, but he wouldn't play either, even if he were miraculously healthy for a few weeks. Big problem is Post got the short contract though, so they need to find a way to re-sign him before he either gets too expensive or they get bogged down and the clock runs out.

[whatisacenter]

supposedly Draymond is nearly "untouchable" for the Warriors but I don't put much stock in these reports.

The Golden State Warriors are considered unlikely to make a major trade for a star this season unless it is for Giannis Antetokounmpo, sources tell Jake Fischer. The Warriors would almost certainly need to send out Draymond Green or Jimmy Butler in a deal for a star making a significant salary and only Antetokounmpo would motivate them to do so, according to Fischer. This rules out the likes of Lauri Markkanen or Anthony Davis for the Warriors.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/283084/Warriors-Reserve-Draymond-Green-Trade-Only-For-Giannis-Not-Markkanen-Or-Davis

[marthafokker]

Draymond currently sitting on 0.0 VORP (second lowest of his career only his rookie season was worse), and -1.9 BPM (again only rookie season was worse). I feel like the decline has been most noticeable in his passing where he just isn't as sharp as he used to be. Clearly he still has a huge role to play and in high leverage moments you want him out there...but I don't know guys, this team is really being held up by two guys, and it kinda badly needs Draymond to be better than he has been so far.

Respect your takes. It is hard to envision a scenario where we hit our ceiling without Draymond. I'm not able to watch as many games as I used to because I'm in the Eastern time zone now. He has always been a good passer. I think maybe patience is warranted. He is so much of the fabric of the team. I couldn't agree more we need him to be better. He synergizes really well with Jimmy on defense and Steph on offense. I feel like Kerr and the team are playing the long game. I want to see the right rotations, and team improvement as the season progresses. Playoffs are all that matters.

We saw 3 games of no Dray. The team plays better overall without him chucking 3s and TO everywhere.

His +/- looks great as long as he is next to Curry. But we saw him without Curry. His D is not an overall positive when his negative on offense cost the team.

If it means more Post, Moody and Santos.... so be it. If Dray, JK, and Hield plus all the picks lands us Gannis... so be it. Let's have 2 years of fun and then stink the next 10... I don't care.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Dray's value on offense is as the connector. He needs motion shooters, cutters, and finishers. With steph out, he really doesnt have any of that.

There's no klay, steph, or even a poole to hit off curls, relocations, dho's. Movement shooters.

There's no wiggins, barnes, or even a prime gp2 for dray to hit off back door cuts, lobs, flashes.. Smart finishers with athleticism.

All that's left for him now is iso guys, non shooters, and below the rim players. He's never going to be the guy who gets his own offense, that's why he's looking rough.

[weekend_warrior]

As it was pretty obvious on the day of the Butler trade, they should have shipped out Draymond and not Wiggins to have any chance of putting together a competitive team. And that was before Draymond fell off the cliff this season in terms of his athletic impact (the personal impact was net negative for quite a while before).

Now they obviously don't have the assets to do anything meaningful, so the likely outcome is again play-in.

[DoubleLintendre]

Draymond is probably not worth that much on the trade market. His offensive role has overlap with Jimmy on O and there's no prime Klay to pass to and so his offensive utility is worse than ever.

But his defense is still there-- I think he's still a championship piece for us in that way. His defense and IQ haven't aged much. Last year he was still dismantling top players individually, and I had no questions on that end at all. There's no other player I can imagine replacing him that's realistically available. Not the fire, not the D, not the IQ.

I actually put a lot of blame on Kerr (again) on getting more out of Dray. Kerr is horrid at adapting to age of his players and isn't fine tuning the offense/focus of his players. He looks at the team and sees the Warriors of old, Curry and Draymond included. It's offensive system slop at this point.

At this point Draymond should be zeroed in on his 3 point shooting, to play like a combination of old Dray and Brook Lopez/Kevin Love. He can still start plays but we need to bring in another shooter off the curl and who can move.