How big of a pay check is Pietrus looking for?

[Twinkie defense]

Belinelli of course still has a lot to prove. But by all accounts Nellie and Mullin like him. And of course they get to see him a lot more than "minute-by-minute" in a game or on youtube. They see him at practice all day, and have been scouting him for years.

The Warriors have proven to be pretty good over the years in finding steals at the guard positions... Hardaway, Sprewell, the original Sarunas, Arenas, Mr. Jennings, Ellis, Azubuike...

Right now Beli doesn't have a lot of value because no one has seen what he's capable of. But if he pans out, that gives you another, more valuable piece to keep or trade, and also gives you some flexibility with Monta and Azu.

Beli has certainly been off his shot this year. I read that the coaches are trying to get him to slow down, that he's rushing things too much... and that he needs to work on having the consistently same release on each shot.

But I do think he can be a pure shooter... he's got a great, quick release, and can get separation at any time to get his shot off. He also has great range. I think he and Monta could become the Warriors' most consistent, reliable outside threats... more "automatic" than Baron or Jack.

Warriors could use a guy like Wilcox, but it's way too early to send Beli off, unless he's part of a bigger deal that is otherwise just too good to turn down.

[Sleepy51]

I'm a huge proponent of bringing in Wilcox. I also agree that we have a lot of SG depth which we should use to make a deal happen, if presented with one.

What I'm worried about is how we are going to prioritize Monta Ellis in our future. I have a lot of respect for how Monta has been playing for us these past 25 games, but the guy really, really, really disappears at times. Is this 6'4, 175lb combo guard without a 3pt shot and with a back problem a guy we want to build around? That decision is at hand come the offseason when a new contract will have to be extended.

Since SG's are a dime a dozen, aside from the few very special ones in the league at any given time, I don't think we should be paying so much to one with some real imperfections.

This is why I want to keep Belinelli and keep Azu as two players we won't have to pay much, and then sign/draft the right guy to plug into the system. If Belli turns out good, then we have a 3pt shooter that is the right size for a SG and he'll be making only $6M over the next 3 years. If Azu keeps improving, he could be a SG/SF that either is a top backup or a potential starter, and he shouldn't make more than $9M over the next three years.

In any case, I don't want to start giving away guys that could be an important part of our future until we've got things sorted out a bit more. For example...

If Wilcox could be had for Belinelli and Pietrus but we had to pay Monta $9M a year to be our SG would that be better than trading Monta + change for Josh Smith, and having Azu and Marco be our SG's?

Too many questions to be asked before making a trade like this so quickly.

Monta is a special player. He's got growth and improvement to do, but he has an ability that is freakish and he's amongst the fastest guys in the league with or without the ball. That kind of specialness you do consider paying for, especially if he continues to grow as a PG. He doesn't have to be Jason Kidd to run the point for a very good team. He could definitely learn to be what Tony Parker has become . . . Parker was a decisionmaking liability and a turnover machine at Monta's age.

[Twinkie defense]

I'd give 5 years, $45 mil to Monta.

[turk3d]

I agree for the most part with what you say Nick (that is I don't want to give up any of our kids to get Wilcox) but also wanted to add this about Monta. A realize the issues you brought about him, including the one regarding his potential paycheck next year. The only one I would take exception to is the abundance of two guards and Monta. Monta is more of a combo guard who is getting a lot otjt this season playing point guard. Even with his potential for injuries, he's worth the risk.

If he's able to make it through this season with all the minutes he's been playing without suffering any major injuries, I feel confident that he has the durability and would be willing to take whatever risk it is in keeping him. If he does get seriously injured this season (and with all he's playing the liklihood would probably be it's greatest) then I wouldn't be too concerned about the contract he could demand, since that would be a major part of his negotiations.

The biggest concern I have however, is that there is a new trend in the NBA amongs point guards, and that is they there are more and more guys who are superfast. Not only do you have guys like AI, but you now have Paul, Williams, Tony Parker, Devan Harris, Leonardo Barbosa, Ford when healthy and others with more to come. The trend is to have that speed point guard and if you don't have someone who can keep up with those jackrabbits, you're going to have a lot of trouble. It is for that reason by itself, that makes me really reluctant to move Monta on

. Not only does he wreak havoc with other teams who don't have to speed to keep up with him, at least he gives us some semblance of hope in keeping up with the other teams speed demons.

[St.Nick]

-= original quote snipped =-



Monta is a special player. He's got growth and improvement to do, but he has an ability that is freakish and he's amongst the fastest guys in the league with or without the ball. That kind of specialness you do consider paying for, especially if he continues to grow as a PG. He doesn't have to be Jason Kidd to run the point for a very good team. He could definitely learn to be what Tony Parker has become . . . Parker was a decisionmaking liability and a turnover machine at Monta's age.

The Tony Parker angle is a good one. I just hope that Monta can develop into a floor general like Parker in time. Right now I cringe when Baron goes out and its just Monta running the show. He seems a long, long ways away from being ready to be a PG.

I also think that his performance in the playoffs this year (knock on wood that we make it) will be a big indicator about where he's at. His disappearing act against Utah and Dallas was eye opening. If he can prove himself this time around then he'll have my confidence.

[Sleepy51]

-= original quote snipped =-



The Tony Parker angle is a good one. I just hope that Monta can develop into a floor general like Parker in time. Right now I cringe when Baron goes out and its just Monta running the show. He seems a long, long ways away from being ready to be a PG.

I also think that his performance in the playoffs this year (knock on wood that we make it) will be a big indicator about where he's at. His disappearing act against Utah and Dallas was eye opening. If he can prove himself this time around then he'll have my confidence.

When you think about Monta as PG with Baron off the floor you have to take into account how truly unsound our offensive approach really is. There's no movement on the floor most of the time, the only play we regularly run in pick and roll, and no one away from the ball does anything to keep their defender honest while the point, or Jax is handling. Add to that when you take Baron off the floor that is like 25% of your scoring firepower and what's a PG really to do with the mess that's left? Drive against a packed in defense and hope Barstrus man collapses on you so you can kick out? I think what you're seeing is moreso that our offense is a long long way from being "ready for prime time" when Baron is off the floor. Monta plays point FREQENTLY now with Baron on the floor, and he looks very good when the D has to honor other legit players and not just pack it in against the drive.

Improve the floorgame of the guys he has to work with and you make life easy on your PG. If Parker weren't playing with smart, active, well coached guys who don't stand around, he'd have issues too. (I'm not saying Monta=TP, but he's not as far off as playing in our junkball 2nd unit looks)

Monta is showing me very good 2nd year PG stuff. If and when we go away from Baran/Jack streetball in the post Baron era, Monta seems to have improved his handle and his vision and his willingness to give up the ball early before he gets in trouble. His improvement trajectory at the position is off the charts considering missing camp, and having never been a true position player at a mediocre high school program where I doubt anyone tried to teach him anything except to score more than the other team's best guy.

[Sleepy51]

Oh, and Belli likes tha cock.

[turk3d]

Now that it appears that Nellie (or Maybe Mullie has directed) Biedrins to be integrated into the offense (I think that we'll see more and more of that) it will help. There seemed to be some good chemistry developing between those two early on (not lately though). If they can get that cohesiveness going on a consistent basis between Beans and Monta using the pick and roll, that's all we'll need and that's all Monta would need. The two of them could prove to be unstoppable over the long haul.

[Sleepy51]

On Warrior PG play in general, ask youself this.

How often do you see ANY warrior player other than Beans move themselves into open space going TOWARDS the basket to create an assist/layup opportunity for the PG to feed them?

A lot of the play that the haters crap on Baron for, and a lot of the wrinkles in Monta's PG game have to do with the fact that this team does not run an offense that encourages distribution the ball the way a Parker or Paul's team do. A motion offense makes life easy on a PG because they are often given the job of delivering the ball to a point in space and their teammates are disciplined enough to arrive at the right spot on time to convert the play.

If Baron tried to throw those passes to the sculpture garden we have most nights he would have a kajilion turnovers because no one on this team but Beans does any substantial work to set themselves up as assist targets on anything but long range jumpers with any regularity.

Watch for it next game. Count how many times you see a Warrior player set a screen away from the ball, or set up a backdoor cut. Those "plays" make life easy on floor generals. When you have to try to distribute to guys who stand still, the turnover potential goes way up because defenders don't have to track their man, they can fully focus on the balhandler and jumping passing lanes.

It's pretty amazing Baron has so few turnovers in this kind of offense and it makes some sense as to why Monta won't have an easy road to learn to be a floor general in a very unprofessional offense.

[turk3d]

On Warrior PG play in general, ask youself this.

How often do you see ANY warrior player other than Beans move themselves into open space going TOWARDS the basket to create an assist/layup opportunity for the PG to feed them?

A lot of the play that the haters crap on Baron for, and a lot of the wrinkles in Monta's PG game have to do with the fact that this team does not run an offense that encourages distribution the ball the way a Parker or Paul's team do. A motion offense makes life easy on a PG because they are often given the job of delivering the ball to a point in space and their teammates are disciplined enough to arrive at the right spot on time to convert the play.

If Baron tried to throw those passes to the sculpture garden we have most nights he would have a kajilion turnovers because no one on this team but Beans does any substantial work to set themselves up as assist targets on anything but long range jumpers with any regularity.

Watch for it next game. Count how many times you see a Warrior player set a screen away from the ball, or set up a backdoor cut. Those "plays" make life easy on floor generals. When you have to try to distribute to guys who stand still, the turnover potential goes way up because defenders don't have to track their man, they can fully focus on the balhandler and jumping passing lanes.

It's pretty amazing Baron has so few turnovers in this kind of offense and it makes some sense as to why Monta won't have an easy road to learn to be a floor general in a very unprofessional offense.

[Mylie10]

On Warrior PG play in general, ask youself this.

How often do you see ANY warrior player other than Beans move themselves into open space going TOWARDS the basket to create an assist/layup opportunity for the PG to feed them?

A lot of the play that the haters crap on Baron for, and a lot of the wrinkles in Monta's PG game have to do with the fact that this team does not run an offense that encourages distribution the ball the way a Parker or Paul's team do. A motion offense makes life easy on a PG because they are often given the job of delivering the ball to a point in space and their teammates are disciplined enough to arrive at the right spot on time to convert the play.

If Baron tried to throw those passes to the sculpture garden we have most nights he would have a kajilion turnovers because no one on this team but Beans does any substantial work to set themselves up as assist targets on anything but long range jumpers with any regularity.

Watch for it next game. Count how many times you see a Warrior player set a screen away from the ball, or set up a backdoor cut. Those "plays" make life easy on floor generals. When you have to try to distribute to guys who stand still, the turnover potential goes way up because defenders don't have to track their man, they can fully focus on the balhandler and jumping passing lanes.

It's pretty amazing Baron has so few turnovers in this kind of offense and it makes some sense as to why Monta won't have an easy road to learn to be a floor general in a very unprofessional offense.

Great points Sleepy and it is exactly what I'm seeing out there. It irks me to no end when we stand around. Thank God for Beans who is an incredibly smart basketball player. Imagine him when he's 28 years old. We better pay this kid what he wants.

As for Baron the lack of movement contributes to bad Baron. He feels the need to take heat check chots and go one on one when there's no movement.

Also what we are seeing with Baron is truly incredible. He could be the Curly Neal of the globe trotters if he wanted to. The handles he possesses might be the best of all time for a player of his girth.

The strength to go with the finess is truly remarkable, and to expect those things out of Monta isn't fair.

If we can keep Baron and Monta together for years to come, we won't have to worry about being a good team, because we will be.

[ILOVEIT]

hehe....bringing back an old thread for the hell of it.

Pietrus, next big contract, discuss ... lol

[Chris Porter's Hair]

Yeah, don't do that.