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Warriors please explain the POB situation once and for all!

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Post#21 » by Twinkie defense » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:07 am

You got it wrong LF, Miss Joy walked in on Big Smooth giving Lucky a bath. That's Nellie's job!

I have to shudder, just seeing the words "BJ Armstrong."
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Post#22 » by mistatwo mayn » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:44 am

POB no heart.... simple as that.

Nellie loves Wright.

POB is a force in the middle but he blows many defensive assignments.
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Post#23 » by FNQ » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:58 pm

Pietrus plays w/o a brain... Nellie is ok w/people missing major organs...

The inability to hit 3s is what keeps POB on the bench, same with Wright... can't spread Nellie's offense so he's got no use for them...
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Post#24 » by dareru » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:32 pm

510Reggae wrote:Pietrus plays w/o a brain... Nellie is ok w/people missing major organs...

The inability to hit 3s is what keeps POB on the bench, same with Wright... can't spread Nellie's offense so he's got no use for them...


:rofl:

Nicely said.
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Post#25 » by old rem » Fri Feb 1, 2008 5:48 am

Sleepy51 wrote:Even as a fan of his potential, I see it's pretty obvious what he's done to turn Nelson off (I don't think this is so much Mullin's call anymore)

When he's played well Patrick has accomplished the things a tall person is generally regarded as supposed to be able to do on the floor: i.e. be long. He's challenged shots and he's kept rebounds away from the other team. Those things are kind of square one stuff at 7'2".

When Patrick has been bad, he's been otherworldly bad. When he made his mistakes, they were often f :censored: up repugnant s :censored: type of mistakes that an NBA coach probably just doesn't expect to ever be seeing at this level. They haven't just been "rookie" mistakes, sometimes they have been semi-retarded amputee rookie type mistakes.

The problem is, Patrick isn't going to stop making those mistakes unless he plays more basketball, because he really was so far behind the curve when he was drafted. A good team in a tight playoff race probably isn't going to make a lot of room for those kinds of mistakes. Logically, to an outside observer, his mistakes are at worst just one posession, just one opportunity blown, but the I guess in Nellie's basketball savant world, some of the things he does just come off as hopeless.

I don't agree, and I don't like it, but I guess I do understand.

Of course, then I start to wonder how the :censored: Pietrus still gets on the floor making the same kinds of blither idiot mistakes as a 5 year vet, but expecting consistency from Nellie between small and big players just isn't a realistic expectation. I think it's totally reasonable to say that Nellie absolutely knows basketball, and it's also totally reasonable to say that Nellie has double standards for what he's willing to work with in a big vs. a small player.

Some other coach might decide they have time to invest in Patrick, and I personaly think they will be rewarded two years down the road with a more than servicable 7'2" NBA rotation player who can impact a game in limited minutes - think Mikki Moore. That is something that this fanchise could probably have made use of down the road, but we've decided to go another way. Maybe Kosta has the necessary polish to one day be invested in as a project backup center.


Until a player has at least ONE 10 min run in the NBA and/or is regularly seeing SOME action once a week...he's basically unfamiliar with the NBA game. In this case....POB HAD played ball a lot-----until he got here....now he can't play,becauase Nellie won't let him,and he can't succeed because Nellie wants him to fail-or at least seem to fail. Doing something GOOD is as apt to bring the hook as doing something bad. Nellie wants to feed his ego at Mullin's expense and POB is just caught in the crossfire. Yeah...Mullin's castrated and good luck undoing that later.

LF is right...the decent thing is to let POB escape asap,this sadistic charade is embarrassing and it sure sends a message to the current rooks and whoever we draft next. I would not be surprised if some draft prospects try hard to NOT get drafted by GSW.
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Post#26 » by old rem » Fri Feb 1, 2008 6:04 am

Trying to say POB is good..bad..smart..dumb..lazy...whatever, is like declaring an election won when 10 votes are counted out of a half million. We have yet to get to see ANY trend or tendency or learning curve. We get to see a 20 yr old kid in a no win situation for about 5 min a month. I doubt anyone here can come to where I work and look like an expert the first day on the job. In terms of game minutes...POB is far from half way through the first day on the job.

Next up.....Wright. His once a week 2 min audition will get cut so Webber can play more....plus Webber will mean neither of the 7 ft backup C's see anything but a 2 min warmup in a blowout. I really wonder what our bench will look like next season. We have expirings and DNP's and that's ALL we have.
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Post#27 » by natethegreat » Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:16 am

I think the point about POB is somewhat similar to how Nellie viewed Ike. Nellie expects his bigs to play "team" defense. Even if they can man up and block shots, the most important part of the Nellie game on the defensive end is rotation and trusting each other to be where you are supposed to be. I think POB plays fairly decent man to man defense but I think he is totally lost in the team concepts the Warriors play. He is almost always out of position.

Next time you watch the game, keep an eye on Andres. That guy totally gets the team defensive scheme. He switches well, he protects the rim, and the other players trust that he will be where he is supposed to be. Andres also blends in perfectly on offense. POB just seems to be looking around wondering where he is supposed to be. He makes a few nice individual plays, but he doesn't seem to add to the 5 on 5 game. Now, I have to say, Brandon seems to have a better feel for the team game, although not anywhere near as good as Andris (obviously less experience). And Brandon needs to take a pledge to not shoot the ball from outside of 10 feet (like Montas pledge to not shot outside of 15 feet which has worked perfectly).
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Post#28 » by Sid the Squid » Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:32 am

Brandan has to keep taking that 15 footer..shot after shot..game after game..month after month ..year after year...There's no way he's going ever be able to play with Andris if he cant hit that shot..It's crucial...And I can see vast imrovement over his UNC form....

POB is great offensively..I have no idea what you're looking at..Maybe just his body language? Try looking at his shot chart or screen setting,,or passing ...or FT %...The dude has supreme talent.
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Post#29 » by Mylie10 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:35 am

And I'd bet his defensive rotations would be good in about 2 weeks of consistant action if that long.

There's the underlying issue that I'd like to hear about from the brass.
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Post#30 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Sun Feb 3, 2008 5:11 am

Mylie, your right, the POB situation is a complete mystery. The Media not asking Mulson about the POB situation is also a mystery.

POB is more agile and quicker than most guys his size are. He can do things that Felton Spencer could only dream about. He is no Biedrins or Dwight Howard but they are freakishly athletic for their height and POB is bigger than them. So why are the Warriors dissing POB?

I was a Celtic fan living in Boston when the Warriors sent Robbert Parrish packing. POB has not in any way produced like pre-Boston Parrish did but in some way POB reminds me of Parrish. I hope POB sucks and I am wrong about him because he would be stupid to resign with the Warriors this summer. I don't want to see POB on the Eastern Conference All Star team.

I thought Keon Clark, Clifford Rozier, Carlos Rogers and Tyrone Hill were all going to have long high quality careers. I thought Latrell Sprewell was a quality person and a good team player. It seems that these guys had problems being stable people. The media did not give me much insight their character problems.

POB seems like a decent gentleman. Where is his thug posse? POB seems fairly smart off the court. POB is not a semi (Please Use More Appropriate Word) like Darryl Dawkins. POB seemed a litttle passive and disinterested last year but I have not seen that this year. So whats the Problem?

Let's suppose the Warriors knew that POB does not want to have a career on a team on which he can not compete for the stating job because Andris will always be better than him; Would that explain CoMulNsons behavior towards POB? No point developing POB and picking up his third year if they know he is walking away after year 3?

I hope Nellie doesnt still think he is the master of head games and is in some way turning POB into a better player by screwing with his mind. Nelson should have learned from his disaster with Chris Webber that he is no Red Aurbach or Phil Jackson and has no buisness trying to play mind games with his players. Nelson may be the master of gimick on the court but he should not attempt to use emotional gimmicks with his players off the court.

Sleepy51 wrote:When Patrick has been bad, he's been otherworldly bad. When he made his mistakes, they were often f :censored: up repugnant s :censored: type of mistakes that an NBA coach probably just doesn't expect to ever be seeing at this level. They haven't just been "rookie" mistakes, sometimes they have been semi-retarded amputee rookie type mistakes.


To me POB's basketball smarts looks like a normal 2nd year player who has not played much. He is definitely a work in progress and not a finnished player. I have not seen any 3 minute segment of "otherworldly bad" playing from POB this year. "otherworldly bad" sounds harsh; were you exaggerating? Has POB really looked that bad to you this year?
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Post#31 » by natethegreat » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:06 am

LF75 wrote:POB is great offensively..I have no idea what you're looking at..Maybe just his body language? Try looking at his shot chart or screen setting,,or passing ...or FT %...The dude has supreme talent.

I can't tell but if your comment was directed at my post ... I was talking vitually exclusively about his defense and Nelson's short fuse for players who don't play defense in the scheme. That is why I personally believe Nellie doesn't like POB. I don't believe the issue are his offensive skills or offensive potential. Then again, this is just my guess, as everyone else is guessing Nelson's reasoning for not playing Patrick.
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Post#32 » by St.Nick » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:03 am

Can't we all just assume the reason that POB doesn't play is the most obvious one? He stinks.

No conspiracy theories, no vendettas, no mysteries. Just pure, stupid, raw, crappiness.

Busts happen people. Most of the time, you can blame the player and not everyone else for him becoming a bust.

Of course, if you want to insist upon Don Nelson being the stupid one here--despite his nearly 1300 NBA wins-- over POB just being a bad player, then go ahead. But you have to realize how far out that sounds.
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Post#33 » by St.Nick » Sun Feb 3, 2008 10:09 am

Are there any other boards that spend this much time talking about a 12th man/third string center with such passion? Sonics fans don't go on and on about Saer Sene, Bobcats fans don't have an unhealthy obsession with Sean May, and Clippers fans never droned on and on about that Korolev guy. It's just weird how much we continue to talk about him as if there is still hope for him here.

Can I tell you how his career path will go?

He's going to be out of Oakland next year, likely signed to a 1 year minimum deal with some crappy team, he'll sit on the bench all year with them too, after that he'll bounce around the league for another season before finally quitting to open a gourmet bakery in Minnesota called Patty's Cakes.
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Post#34 » by Sleepy51 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:08 pm

That was almost as clever as "Bustinelli"
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Post#35 » by turk3d » Sun Feb 3, 2008 5:35 pm

Even Sene has gotten opportunities to play in Seattle. He really sucks. I bet if we offered to deal POB to them in exchange for Sene, they'd jump at it (of course we wouldn't because POB is better). O'Bryant, with the few opportunities he's gotten in real game situations, has at least shown something.

As far as him being #12 maybe he could move up the list, if he were given the chance and Nellie would play him. And btw, 12 is better than 15. At least he's allowed to suit up now (an improvement over what he was getting previously).

Why do we care about the #12 player? Because he's a lottery pick, a 7 foot center who has shown us some skills (in spite of those of you who claim that he hasn't), and if he didn't come out, he'd be a junior in college. What do you think he'd be doing if he was still in school? I bet he'd be shooting for being a pretty high pick this season. Duncan played all 4 seasons before he came out. POB's one year in college, his numbers were very close to Duncans first year.

If you want a championship team some day, it's not going to be our core that gets us there (that's if you think we can win this year), it's going to be the rest of our roster that will make the difference in getting over the top. Look at any championship team and one thing you will find and that's depth. It's not just about the starters, it's about having the guys to come in and play solid basketball when needed. You don't get that for your bench players unless you play them. You need to find ways to get them into games in order to do that, it takes intelligent coaching.

As an example take the Bulls. Who was it making game winning shots when Jordan wasn't? It was guys like Paxson and Kerr who were essentially bench players. If Phil Jackson could get valuable minutes out of Centers like Luke Longley and Willl Purdue (POB has WAY MORE talent than those guys did) I don't see why we can't get something out of him and even Perovic not to mention Wright and Belli. This is purely nothing more than a coaching flaw in Nelson in my opinion that is his inability to fully utililize all his assets (that is his players).

If we want to EVENTUALLY be a legitimate championship contender, we need to develop ALL our players instead of purging the ones who didn't personally select ourselves. We have a full roster, we might as well use it to the best of our ability.
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Post#36 » by St.Nick » Sun Feb 3, 2008 6:13 pm

Not all players turn out, Turk. Some of them, despite all of their physical talent, are lacking in guts and brains. This is what separates NBA players from good college players.

The second half of your post I agree with. We do need to develop our young players. That doesn't mean we have to give minutes to Patrick O'Bryant, though. These guys develop in practice and then when they are ready, they are inserted into the game. If they don't get in the game, they are simply not ready.

If POB still has not gotten into the rotation after two seasons of up close observation, especially with our dearth of centers, then he obviously is not ready.

Its all pretty simple if you think about it.
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Post#37 » by Mylie10 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 7:54 pm

St.Nick wrote:Not all players turn out, Turk. Some of them, despite all of their physical talent, are lacking in guts and brains. This is what separates NBA players from good college players.

The second half of your post I agree with. We do need to develop our young players. That doesn't mean we have to give minutes to Patrick O'Bryant, though. These guys develop in practice and then when they are ready, they are inserted into the game. If they don't get in the game, they are simply not ready.

If POB still has not gotten into the rotation after two seasons of up close observation, especially with our dearth of centers, then he obviously is not ready.

Its all pretty simple if you think about it.


Turk covered alot of the ground.

I've seen enough of him for myself to think he can help us. Nellie doesn't. I simply would like a clear answer on why Nellie feels this way.

The media's either afraid to ask, or have been told not to.

I understand that you St. Nick and JRHester think he sucks. The others who constantly harp on this subject have seen things from him that we'd like to use.

We'd like the shot blocking and shot changing length he has.

His offense is light years ahead of Biedrins based on skillset. The lakc of explosive quickness may be what's totally lacking, but it needs to be explained.

He was one pick behind Rudy effing Gay. He has value and his value has been squashed by Nellie. I don't get that at all.

The guy is more than seviceable based on his 3 different plus 10 minute games. He also did an awesome job on Phenom Andrew Bynum in preseason by outplaying him.

That alone had me thinking the Warriors were gonna be in good shape with a legit big to back up Beans.

all I'm asking for is the brass to clearly state what the problem is.

They owe the fans.
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Post#38 » by mistatwo mayn » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:44 pm

In all regards.... does anyone know what Baron Davis did as a rookie? What about how much burn Ellis got (sure he did get more than most 2nd rounders...)

Whether he doesn't get much burn cuz he's not working hard enough, or because he sucks, does anyone doubt he had/has motivational issues all they way back from his draft?

Who the hell talks about the end of their career come draft night?
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Post#39 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:06 am

St.Nick wrote:Not all players turn out, Turk. Some of them, despite all of their physical talent, are lacking in guts and brains.


That is why we have a thread about our 12th man. Some of us want to be told that the reason POB does not play is because he is lacking guts or brains. We have seen the raw ability that got POB drafted at the 9 spot, but we don't know what the flaw in POB is that made the Warriors not pick up POB's third year. Wasting the 9th pick in the draft is a serious mistake.

I don't know why Nelson would play Mbenga but won't play POB. I hope that Nelson is making the right decision. Over all I am very happy with Nelson, but Nelson has made some bad mistakes in the past.

Are the Warriors hoping that they can sign POB to a multi-year deal for less than he is worth if the Warriors can raise doubts about whether POB is any good? A simpler explanation like POB has no heart is more likely.

POB should leave Golden State this summer to join a team that wants to find out if he can be a good NBA player. With Nelson unwilling to play POB now and with POB surely joining some other team this summer, why are we still wasting a roster space on him?
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Post#40 » by SinceGatlingWasARookie » Mon Feb 4, 2008 4:30 am

mistatwo mayn wrote:does anyone know what Baron Davis did as a rookie?

Baron appeared in 82 games as a rookie and averaged 18.6 minutes per game.

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