ImageImageImageImageImage

A peek at next season... what to do?

Moderators: Sleepy51, Chris Porter's Hair, floppymoose

User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,642
And1: 9,447
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: De-funked
     

 

Post#21 » by FNQ » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:28 pm

MightyReds2020 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Yea but, Buke in his second season > JRich in his second season.


Nooooooo way.

Buke has the great advantage of being the least intimidating player on the team. Ever seen him get DTed? Hell, even any help defense?

He's a catch and shoot player.. he can drive and dunk when no one is there, but thats it... JRich was one of the focal points of our offense in his 2nd season, Buke's our 8th man on an obscenely depth-starved team...
Keepin it classless
Watching the easily manipulated be easily manipulated
User avatar
mistatwo mayn
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,385
And1: 1
Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Location: Yay Area

 

Post#22 » by mistatwo mayn » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:46 pm

Buke doesn't have long arms... that hinders him from being a "Warrior"

But he will not get any significant pay... ever. He's not worth that much.
MightyReds2020
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 12
Joined: Oct 07, 2003

 

Post#23 » by MightyReds2020 » Fri Feb 1, 2008 9:48 pm

510Reggae wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Nooooooo way.

Buke has the great advantage of being the least intimidating player on the team. Ever seen him get DTed? Hell, even any help defense?

He's a catch and shoot player.. he can drive and dunk when no one is there, but thats it... JRich was one of the focal points of our offense in his 2nd season, Buke's our 8th man on an obscenely depth-starved team...


JRich was forced to be the focal point on a bad team, eventhough he totally wasn't ready. I hated JRich's entire games until his 4th season, when he became more well-rounded.

Buke, on the other hand, is already a pretty versatile player. He doesn't have any one unique skill (although rebouding is close) but he can help a team in many different ways. If only he could crank up his defensive intensity (probably partly due to bad knee?) and awareness, he would have been a pretty good 6th man, on a much better team.
User avatar
FNQ
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 47,642
And1: 9,447
Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Location: De-funked
     

 

Post#24 » by FNQ » Fri Feb 1, 2008 10:00 pm

I dont know which Buke you are watching, but we are not going to agree at all if you think Buke can be a good 6th man on ANY team thats not a complete joke...

Defense isn't just bad - its awful. He can't pass well, certainly can't create for others or himself, so he's a spot shooter. Rebounding is his one strength - yet he's hardly an impact player there. So he can shoot open shots, created for him, he can rebound above average for a SG/SF, and he can dunk.... and that's completely ignoring his being a liability (re: focal point) on defense.

No way... Buke's only value in the positive is when we're moving the ball around a ton and finding him wide open shots... you're telling me there's a shortage of those people in the NBA, much less the D-League?

With Webber now signing, Buke's probably the 13th or 14th best player on the roster... only CJ's definitely worse (an inferior version of Buke)
Keepin it classless
Watching the easily manipulated be easily manipulated
MightyReds2020
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 12
Joined: Oct 07, 2003

 

Post#25 » by MightyReds2020 » Fri Feb 1, 2008 10:40 pm

510Reggae wrote:I dont know which Buke you are watching, but we are not going to agree at all if you think Buke can be a good 6th man on ANY team thats not a complete joke...

Defense isn't just bad - its awful. He can't pass well, certainly can't create for others or himself, so he's a spot shooter. Rebounding is his one strength - yet he's hardly an impact player there. So he can shoot open shots, created for him, he can rebound above average for a SG/SF, and he can dunk.... and that's completely ignoring his being a liability (re: focal point) on defense.
...


That's where I'll have to disagree. Buke is not a spot-up shooter type. He's being used like one since SJax came back, but there's a different between the type of player he is and the role he's being used.

At his best, Buke attacks the basket and that opens up the lane for others. He's shown this capability last season and early this season. However since SJax came back, coupled with the knee injury, he's had a lot less opportunity to do this because most of the time he just didn't get enough touches to assert himself on the offensive end.

I don't want to make myself sound like I'm making excuses for Buke's struggle, because he clearly isn't a good defender in Warriors' system and his shot hasn't being falling lately, but he not half as bad as you made it out to be. He can clearly handle the ball better than JRich was in his first 3 years, and he's shown enough to be a reliable scorer off the bench. And I am not saying he IS one of the better 6th man in the league now at this moment, all I said was he has a very good chance to become someone like that down the road, probably for a different type of team though.
User avatar
marthafokker
Head Coach
Posts: 6,262
And1: 277
Joined: Jul 13, 2004

 

Post#26 » by marthafokker » Fri Feb 1, 2008 10:50 pm

Does this Gasol trade hurt the Dubbs next year?

Memphis now has 12-14 Mil to spend. And they could use it for Biedrins. :(

Who else they could use that money on if not on a good young big?
TB wrote:
We finally have a team for Nellie.... bring the old drunk back.
User avatar
floppymoose
Senior Mod - Warriors
Senior Mod - Warriors
Posts: 48,264
And1: 6,550
Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Location: Let's ditch guns!

 

Post#27 » by floppymoose » Fri Feb 1, 2008 11:10 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Belli's handle gives me a stiffy. I have no idea why he says he doesn't like ball pressure.


hahahahahahaha that made my day. What a segue. :lol:
User avatar
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 33,523
And1: 1,065
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#28 » by Sleepy51 » Fri Feb 1, 2008 11:15 pm

floppymoose wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



hahahahahahaha that made my day. What a segue. :lol:


I can't believe I wrote that
:oops:
rcfc1 wrote:Do you even law, bro?
User avatar
Twinkie defense
RealGM
Posts: 16,030
And1: 398
Joined: Jul 15, 2005

 

Post#29 » by Twinkie defense » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:23 am

Azubuike is playing hurt... don't forget how good he looked at the beginning of the season. He's shown he can play in the League, and will most definitely opt out. Someone (maybe the Warriors) will pay him more than 1 year/$800,000 next year. Book it!
User avatar
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 33,523
And1: 1,065
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

 

Post#30 » by Sleepy51 » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:31 am

When did he get hurt?
rcfc1 wrote:Do you even law, bro?
Sid the Squid
Banned User
Posts: 26,062
And1: 7
Joined: Sep 16, 2005

 

Post#31 » by Sid the Squid » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:36 am

How come when Azubuike plays hurt he sucks donkey balls? The whole league is hurt this time every year...Lame excuse.
User avatar
floppymoose
Senior Mod - Warriors
Senior Mod - Warriors
Posts: 48,264
And1: 6,550
Joined: Jun 22, 2003
Location: Let's ditch guns!

 

Post#32 » by floppymoose » Sat Feb 2, 2008 12:39 am

I haven't seen signs of a Buke injury lately. And for the record, Baron was looking back to normal to me (health-wise) once I got back from xmas vacation. It was December that he was hurt, starting with the Philly game. The health of the team overall right now is outstanding. Not including Webber - who knows how he is...
User avatar
mistatwo mayn
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,385
And1: 1
Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Location: Yay Area

 

Post#33 » by mistatwo mayn » Sat Feb 2, 2008 2:43 am

marthafokker wrote:Does this Gasol trade hurt the Dubbs next year?

Memphis now has 12-14 Mil to spend. And they could use it for Biedrins. :(

Who else they could use that money on if not on a good young big?


Warriors have said they will match any offer and I think they will not pursue him (I hope.... that would be pretty bold of them)...

Maybe Memphis forgot that the Oden draft is THIS YEAR?
giberish
RealGM
Posts: 12,010
And1: 2,770
Joined: Mar 30, 2006
Location: Whereever you go - there you are

 

Post#34 » by giberish » Sat Feb 2, 2008 3:04 am

The default 'do nothing' plan would look like this:

Resign Biendrins and Ellis (and Davis if he opts out). This shouldn't be as hard as people think as the few teams with cap space are cheap and/or poor fits.

Resign two of Azibukie, Barnes and Pietrus - most likely Azibukie and Barnes. $5-6M 1st year salary should do for both combined. If someone gets big $$ (like the full MLE ) then the Warriors replace them by singing other reserve wing(s).

Replace the minutes that Pietrus was playing by playing Belinelli and/or Wright more.

Draft a an athletic SF with 3pt range in the 1st round(Bill Walker perhaps?) - but don't expect them to play as a rookie.

This gives an 11 player roster of:
Davis, Ellis, Bellinelli, Bukie, Jackson, Barnes, 1st round pick, Wright, Al, Biendrins and Kosta.
The last 2-4 roster spots will go to minimum salary players (including possible 2nd round picks). Most likely an extra pg and a reserve post player or two.
User avatar
old rem
RealGM
Posts: 50,753
And1: 1,080
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Witness Protection

 

Post#35 » by old rem » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:31 am

Carl_Monday wrote:Unless he has a horriffic knee injury, Buike is opting out. His PO is for the minimum; he's worth more than that and he'll get it.

Left*My*Heart, I know a lot can change in other teams' financial situations between now and the deadline, but as it stands there won't be a team out there under the cap to throw big money at either Ellis or Beans. The only team (as of now) that would have that kind of cap room is the 76ers, and they won't ge after Beans because they've already got a $10 mil per center in Daly, and I don't see them going after Ellis, because they've got a poor-man's Ellis in Louis Williams that they need to re-sign. They're priority will be to go after a 4 (Brand?).

If I had to bet, I'd say both of those guys lock up long term contracts this summer, but I am a little worried about Beans. Considering that they're so far apart, and considering the direction that the NBA is going with regards to Restricted Free Agency, there's a decent chance that no deal will get done and Beans will play for the QO. This is huge because there projects to be a few teams angling for cap space in the summer of 2009, and Beans would be Unrestricted, meaning we could lose him for nothing and not have a say in the matter.

My prediciton for this summer: lock up Tay and Beans, but it takes the team right to the luxury tax threshold and they basically fill out the rest of the roster with vets on the minimum. Buike, Pietrus, POB, and Barnes all gone (though the only one with a sliver of a chance to re-sign is Barnes). If the front office locks up Monta and Beans to reasonable deals, and the team is left with something that resembles depth, I'd call that a successful summer considering the circumstances. :dontknow:


The Warriors can't afford to bleed talent. We ain't even a 5 seed yet. Barnes and Azu will be back. The probability is that Pietrus-POB-Webber-Croshere will be out...though Watson might stick as low $ depth if he makes any more progress.

Next year.....do Wright-Belli-Kosta gather dust along with 2 more rookies?
CENSORED... No comment.
User avatar
old rem
RealGM
Posts: 50,753
And1: 1,080
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Witness Protection

 

Post#36 » by old rem » Sat Feb 2, 2008 5:35 am

giberish wrote:The default 'do nothing' plan would look like this:

Resign Biendrins and Ellis (and Davis if he opts out). This shouldn't be as hard as people think as the few teams with cap space are cheap and/or poor fits.

Resign two of Azibukie, Barnes and Pietrus - most likely Azibukie and Barnes. $5-6M 1st year salary should do for both combined. If someone gets big $$ (like the full MLE ) then the Warriors replace them by singing other reserve wing(s).

Replace the minutes that Pietrus was playing by playing Belinelli and/or Wright more.

Draft a an athletic SF with 3pt range in the 1st round(Bill Walker perhaps?) - but don't expect them to play as a rookie.

This gives an 11 player roster of:
Davis, Ellis, Bellinelli, Bukie, Jackson, Barnes, 1st round pick, Wright, Al, Biendrins and Kosta.
The last 2-4 roster spots will go to minimum salary players (including possible 2nd round picks). Most likely an extra pg and a reserve post player or two.


About right....I still think drafting a PF type is the smart move...but Nellie will lobby for an elf child who shoots 3's in the dark.
CENSORED... No comment.
User avatar
old rem
RealGM
Posts: 50,753
And1: 1,080
Joined: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Witness Protection

 

Post#37 » by old rem » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:24 am

MightyReds2020 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I kinda agree Buke doesn't really fit with the Warriors. Couple of weeks ago I said Buke is exactly like a JRich - good scorer but doesn't fit Warriors' style.

Then again, I looked back at Monta's career and see how he's grew to a capable ball-handler and defender, and wonder if it won't happen with Buke sometime in the near future.

I will still take Buke over Marco in next 3 years. Actually that's not fair because Buke is more of a SF/SG (albeit undersized) and Marco is more of a combo guard like Monta.


Doesn't fit? He's not tall bulky or slow..runs and shoots 3's. He's VERY Warriors. Further....having now finally a whole year in the NBA...he's between a rookie and a 2nd year guy in experiance. He's had 20-30 pt games...he's had a lot of games with 5-8 rbd,and folks....for his level of experiance his D is above avg and I think he's worked hard to get better.
I'd be surprised if Belli is EVER better....do we wanna dump him too? Get a few more has beens?

Anyone else see the Rider - Sienna game today? Jason Thompson is remarkable. 6-11...was bringing the ball upcourt most possesions....had 15 pt/11 reb....in the first half. Great passing and vision. Runs like a SF...ran cross country in HS. Averaging over 20+10 again. Think Blatche with great Basketball IQ and far better fundamentals and effort....or think a L Aldridge with more polish and perhaps available at #20 or after.
CENSORED... No comment.
ILOVEIT
General Manager
Posts: 9,727
And1: 1,530
Joined: May 28, 2004

 

Post#38 » by ILOVEIT » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:40 pm

Austin is done...he wont' be back next year.....

Webber is likely a one year experiment and I think the playoffs will explose his nice juicy soft filling lol.....just like it did when he played for Detroit.

Baron
Monta
Jackson
Biedrins

are the core to me.... after that it's a question of how to take the rest and upgrade the team in any way possible.

Brandon is probably will prove the most valuable piece of the rest....Harrington and Bels after that....

Barnes might again be brought on for the right price....
Welcome adopted Splash Bro Kevin Durant! Let it rain!
MightyReds2020
Analyst
Posts: 3,199
And1: 12
Joined: Oct 07, 2003

 

Post#39 » by MightyReds2020 » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:49 pm

Buke is a slasher, yet Nellie uses him as a spot-up shooter. Why? Because he can't create his offense off the dribble at this level, and he has tunnel vision.

Defensively, he bodies up the opponents, but he doesn't slap and doesn't switch well. That's totally different than all other regulars.

But you do need someone who offers something different at any squad. Buke is that player for the Warriors.
St.Nick
Banned User
Posts: 15,958
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Location: Paris, France

 

Post#40 » by St.Nick » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:57 pm

Bukie could be starter on a bad team. On a good team, he's a decent role player who can occasionally go off for 20+ points.

He's got strengths--a decent outisde shot, fundamentally sound, a good rebounder, very strong, excellent finisher, athletic.

He's got weaknesses--not good at dribble penetration, average to below average passer, streaky shooter, not a nimble defender.

I'd happily take him as a backup SG/SF on our team for the next several years if he's willing to take a deal around $2.5M a year. I think he'll get more somewhere else, though. But decent backup SG's grow on trees so its hardly an issue to worry about.

Return to Golden State Warriors