"Webber is my best center." --Don Nelson-- Feb 9,

[MbengaforMVP]

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Oh, but no. We can't let him tighten up on the bench between tip off and 8 minutes into the first quarter.



Didn't Mullin and Nelly see that his age was a problem when he was with Detroit last season? I saw it and it made me all warm inside and laugh a little. WTF were they looking at?

I'm thinking the last time Nellie ate at Webber's restaurant, Chris spiked the food with LSD... that would explain a hell of a lot.

[old rem]

Inserting Webber into the starting lineup has fooked up the chemistry and offense. It's the exact reason I was fine with delaying our rookie development for the season. The Warriors had the best record in the league since Jackson came back. You don't fix what isn't broken.

If we were going to screw with things it would've been better to be doing it for the sake of the future rather than to give Webber one last gasp at NBA life. And actually, starting Wright instead of Webber would probably have a less significant negative impact on the chemistry and team. Anyone who both defends Nelly right now and bashes LF510 for wanting to play Wright, has no credibility.

Frankly...as dormant as Webber's D has been for about 3 years....we'd do as well using POB or Kosta. If it's fine to give Webber unearned minutes to get in shape ( yeah...right) it's okay to give the young bigs "unearned" minutes to show we had SOMETHING in mind (or a functional mind) on draft day.

What Beans needs is a POWER f in the paint to help offset the teams that have bangers. Biedrins playing half a game every night with no center for the rest...that's unwise. Nellie keeps avoiding a POWER F...gets perimeter types with some size....hey...where's Zarko? Then it comes down to we STILL count on Pietrus-Barnes-Azu to defend the rim and get some boards.

[old rem]

Webber's been fine...He's had back to back good 3rd Q stints...The start of the game was all about Baron..Webber struggled a little bit..He could use a shot blocker in there with him, that's for sure..Smallball takes it toll...But Chris was not the problem last night.

Webber INSTEAD OF Biedrins...was a lot of the problem. May as well have been Murphy..or Cro...or Foyle ....Tshikavili even. Webber lacks the ability to be a looming Sabonis-Ilgauskas -etc at 7-2,7-3,so his poor quickness is even more of a problem. Webber playing a LITTLE backup C and a LITTLE PF --that's viable. Giving him minutes others deserve.

[Sid the Squid]

then blame Nellie...Why is anybody on Webber's azz?

F**k...It's so fricken easy to see Webber needs Biedrins on the floor with him...ODB has everybody buying this smallball crap

Biedrins needs a power forward next to him..Webber needs a C behind him...Smallball is so insane when you have the tall horses.

[Sleepy51]

Webber's been fine...He's had back to back good 3rd Q stints...

Snort!
He's got a way to go to reach "fine." Bukie, Pete, even CJ have had stints as good as Webb thus far.

He's able to contribute at the level of a sub. He has the game of a limited minute roleplayer. What other limited minute roleplayer (not named Shaq) has ever been able to demand the right to start?

If Web got the promise that you have proposed, then in asking for it or accepting it, he made a selfish, egotistical, inappropriate decision at the expense of the team. Chris Webber . . . imagine that!

And the wheels go round and round . . .

[Sleepy51]

then blame Nellie...Why is anybody on Webber's azz?

F**k...It's so fricken easy to see Webber needs Biedrins on the floor with him...ODB has everybody buying this smallball crap

Biedrins needs a power forward next to him..Webber needs a C behind him...Smallball is so insane when you have the tall horses.

Youre absolutely right that the blame rests with Nellie. But that doesn't change the fact that Webb belongs on the bench.

Everybody needs Beans next to them. That's no defense of Nellie forcing Webber into a starting role.

[Sid the Squid]

For some reason you dont' want to put the blame for that 1st Q where it belongs..On Baron...Webber plays the 1st 8 minutes or the last 8 minutes or the middle 8 minutes..That's not the problem..The problem is smallball..Barnes just got abused last night in the 1st...Baron had nothing...It's all right there...There should be no confusion..This isnt about Webber..We were playing like crap in the 1st Q for weeks at home..Webber has nothing to do with it..It's all Nellie and Baron.

[MbengaforMVP]

I agree that our first quarters for the last month or so have been crap, but where do you see Webber helping to fix this?

[Sid the Squid]

I agree that our first quarters for the last month or so have been crap, but where do you see Webber helping to fix this?

It has nothing to do with CWeb..It's all about Nelson and Baron..You want improve the 1st Q's? How about having Baron doing the pregame layup drill with everybody else? How about Baron getting on the court on time to start the game..How about Baron staying at home and resting on off days? How about Baron limiting himself to 4 taco's the day of the game? I went to the Sota gig, Baron had no interest in playing..Nothing till late in the 3rd Q...Not even a hint of a spark..and this was before Webber came.

[Sleepy51]

For some reason you dont' want to put the blame for that 1st Q where it belongs..On Baron...Webber plays the 1st 8 minutes or the last 8 minutes or the middle 8 minutes..That's not the problem..The problem is smallball..Barnes just got abused last night in the 1st...Baron had nothing...It's all right there...There should be no confusion..This isnt about Webber..We were playing like crap in the 1st Q for weeks at home..Webber has nothing to do with it..It's all Nellie and Baron.

Smallball beat the piss out of the hornets.

Smallball made the comeback last night.

Dre can be a part of smallball because he's not slow.

It's worth noting that we played the best basketball game a GSW team has played in the last 13 years right before Webb was signed and demanded to start.

It's about the team. Nellie, Baron, and now Webber. Starting Webber is Nellie's latest f up. Baron flipping out over it is Baron's latest f up. Webber demanding to start is Webber's latest f up. Unfortunately, Webber hasn't done anything to contribute to our 30 wins to balance out for his f up, so he's where I'd start solving the problem.

[Sleepy51]

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It has nothing to do with CWeb..It's all about Nelson and Baron..You want improve the 1st Q's? How about having Baron doing the pregame layup drill with everybody else? How about Baron getting on the court on time to start the game..How about Baron staying at home and resting on off days? How about Baron limiting himself to 4 taco's the day of the game? I went to the Sota gig, Baron had no interest in playing..Nothing till late in the 3rd Q...Not even a hint of a spark..and this was before Webber came.

You're still bitter about that? I'll mail you the cost of the ticket. I'll sign Baron's name to the check if it makes you feel better.

[Sid the Squid]

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You're still bitter about that? I'll mail you the cost of the ticket. I'll sign Baron's name to the check if it makes you feel better.

It seems to me he never shows up at Oracle..I wonder if he's going to LA between home games and even pratice?..He's totally out of touch with this season...

On the road? I havnt seen the Bad Baron since our last LA trip.

[FNQ]

Smallball = when Biedrins/Al aren't on the court

[mistatwo mayn]

This team doesn't feel like an underdog at home... they do on the road though.

Maybe they need to hear boos?

[Sleepy51]

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It seems to me he never shows up at Oracle..I wonder if he's going to LA between home games and even pratice?..He's totally out of touch with this season...

On the road? I havnt seen the Bad Baron since our last LA trip.

Ok, so now we're getting to it. You feel that Baron's lifestyle is a detriment to our team because he parties too much at home?

That's plausible. My Larry Bird Square dane post the other day was serious. Baron allows himself to be distracted in ways that people who know how to acheive greatness dont.

But I still feel that's irrelevant to the disruption of starting Webber for no good reason.

It's two seperate issues. (Except for Baron not reacting well to playing with slow guys who can't dunk.)

Hey man. You don't dig on Baron's personality, that's fine. But Webber still shouldn't be starting here. "But Baron is a dick" is no defense of that.

[FNQ]

Questioning Baron's heart... of course.

I've said it before... the guy wont win a championship unless hes some accessory to a really good team.. he simply doesn't have the desire necessary to be that type of player.

To steal something from WW, still-on-hiatus Khoee asked if Baron would rather win a ring or be a famous movie star...

Regardless of what you think the answer is, the fact that you'd have to even consider it for a second is sending up all kinds of red flags.

As for this Webber stuff... he was a detriment in the 1st Q, again, but Baron was brutal for 3/4 of that game... worked by ROGER MASON. Jack/Tay/Al/Dre saved that game... I dont care what Baron does outside of the office but his game has sucked lately.

[Sleepy51]

I ran an excel sheet on Baron's gamelog at home and on the road. It's a mixed bag. I started looking at those numbers starting from the premise that Baron really shouldn't be partying at the Grammy's during a colosal slump like the one he's in (I posted to that effect the other day in the thread where it was discussed.) I'm surprised to find that his numbers really don't point to any particular patter of self abuse at home.

He's playing 2 more mpg at home
He's shooting 7% better on 1.7 more shots at home
He's 1.5% worse on .5 more shots from 3pt range at home (trying to take "big" shots?)
He's shooting HORRIBLY WORSE from the line at home -10% (50% stage fright 50% with hangovers)
But, he's getting to the line 1.1 more times (going to the rack more? more likely getting his calls at home)
His rebounding is down 0.4 per game at home
His assists are up 1.6 per game at home (that's HUGE)
His turnovers are up 0.30 percent at home (a little hotdogging, but negligible)
His steals are down 0.1 per game
His blocks are up .3 per game, but that's vs. .3 per game on the road, so that up by 100%
His fouls are up .24 per game at home.
His ppg is up 3.16 per game at home.

However:

There is no context to these numbers. There's nothing indicating how the numbers impacted wins or losses, or any weighting for any particular need the team had on a given night. There's nothing indicating whether or not the game was just plain ol crappy despite the numbers. There is most definitely nothing comparing his home/away spreads with other players or some kind of league benchmark (Floppy, that's your cue) but these are the variance in the simplest numbers between what he's produced at home vs. on the road.

I don't know an effective way to post the whole spreadsheet, so you'll have to take my word that I'm not making up or massging the numbers.


Baron does not have the asetic lifestyle habits that make a statement about the singleminded focus that we attribute to legends. But, whatever he's doing, he doesn't appear to be killing his game on any regular basis as much as the last 3 games would indicate to the selective observer. More likely, something else has put his game in the tank. The indictable offense that remains I suppose is not adequately flagellating himself before us for sucking so bad. Instead, he treated him self to a party (a party at the grammys to which he probably had decided to attend long before he knew his game would go in the tank.)

My conclusion? Mountain out of molehill.

He's stinking because he was pouting about the All Star situation when the Webber adjustment hit. Nellie is riding him to feature and defer to Webber more (to make Nellie's project look good) and he's in a terrible mood and it's affecting his game. His participation in the electric slide contest at sweet jimmy's in lower on my list of concerns than the chemistry and ego issues.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[FNQ]

There's always a reason/excuse for Baron's lax play.... I dont see the heart of a champion here at all... Jax on the other hand

[Sleepy51]

For reference,

Kobe:

He's playing 1 fewer mpg at home
He's shooting 1.6% better at home on .04 fewer shots at home
He's 3% better on .04 fewer shots from 3pt range at home
He's shooting 7% better from the FT line at home
But, he's getting to the line 1.8 more times
His rebounding is down 0.3 per game at home
His assists are up 0.9 per game at home
His turnovers are up 0.13 per game at home
His steals are up 0.3 per game
His blocks are down .1 per game
His fouls are up .18 per game at home.
His ppg is up 1.569 per game at home.

Kobe's work ethic is pretty much unquestioned. His lifestyle (other than the raping) is pretty much domestic and responsible in light of his committment to his team.

Not too much difference in his home/away spreads.

What do you guys think?

Is there anything to this or is the whole concept bunk?

And yes, I have too much time on my hands.

[Sleepy51]

There's always a reason/excuse for Baron's lax play.... I dont see the heart of a champion here at all... Jax on the other hand

None of what I said about WHY he's stinking is meant as an excuse. It was more intended to serve as a description.

Pouting over the AS game is (Please Use More Appropriate Word). The best revenge is living well.

(By "living well" I meant ON THE COURT) I don't think Byron Scott is losing sleep over Baron smoking crack with Amy Whinehouse. But he might give a damn about us bouncing them from the playoffs.)