Fool ('s Gold) me once...
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Fool ('s Gold) me once...
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Fool ('s Gold) me once...
This whole Webber debacle and seeing that most are finally getting sick of Nellie's moves... made me want to go more indepth into Nellie's style.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... do01c.html
Here's a reference. In his Milwaukee seasons, what did Nelson accomplish? He started with a stagnant, guard-oriented team, eventually brought them up to 60 wins (losing in the 1st round that year) and kept the Bucks hovering in the 50 win area.. They got to the Eastern Conference Finals twice, getting worked by Boston both times. MIL then went on the same 40 game win seasons they had pre-Nellie, a hell we know all too well. Jack Sikma was the best C they had... at 35.
After 7 years of the 50 win garbage, he left MIL and then joined GS, which was a stagnant, guard-oriented team. He got us up to 55 wins, and led us to a 9-15 postseason record. Our only good big man at the time (Webber) was run out of town by Nelson, and he acquired Guggliotta and Donyell. Once the cupboard was bare and the novelty worn off, he ran to NY for a disaster of a season.
Comes back to DAL 2 years later, on a pathetic, guard-oriented team. Spends a couple seasons on them and eventually turns them into a 40-50 win guard-oriented team. The team in 2002 was at its peak, with ideal players for his style and all sorts of favorable conditions, and they still couldn't crack the Finals. After a lesser year with a convincing loss to the Kings, Nellie hands over the reins to Avery Johnson, as a team thats still lacking an inside presence, which was extremely obvious against the Heat.
Whats's the connection? Nellie just keeps trying HIS style of ball that never gets results. Teams keep allowing him to do so because Nellie is a marketable coach - fans will come out to see 50 win teams. But so long as that team is getting print and notoriety, Nellie hangs around. When the novelty grows old or the cupboard starts looking bare, he bolts.
If he's here in 08-09... it does not look good for our future
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... do01c.html
Here's a reference. In his Milwaukee seasons, what did Nelson accomplish? He started with a stagnant, guard-oriented team, eventually brought them up to 60 wins (losing in the 1st round that year) and kept the Bucks hovering in the 50 win area.. They got to the Eastern Conference Finals twice, getting worked by Boston both times. MIL then went on the same 40 game win seasons they had pre-Nellie, a hell we know all too well. Jack Sikma was the best C they had... at 35.
After 7 years of the 50 win garbage, he left MIL and then joined GS, which was a stagnant, guard-oriented team. He got us up to 55 wins, and led us to a 9-15 postseason record. Our only good big man at the time (Webber) was run out of town by Nelson, and he acquired Guggliotta and Donyell. Once the cupboard was bare and the novelty worn off, he ran to NY for a disaster of a season.
Comes back to DAL 2 years later, on a pathetic, guard-oriented team. Spends a couple seasons on them and eventually turns them into a 40-50 win guard-oriented team. The team in 2002 was at its peak, with ideal players for his style and all sorts of favorable conditions, and they still couldn't crack the Finals. After a lesser year with a convincing loss to the Kings, Nellie hands over the reins to Avery Johnson, as a team thats still lacking an inside presence, which was extremely obvious against the Heat.
Whats's the connection? Nellie just keeps trying HIS style of ball that never gets results. Teams keep allowing him to do so because Nellie is a marketable coach - fans will come out to see 50 win teams. But so long as that team is getting print and notoriety, Nellie hangs around. When the novelty grows old or the cupboard starts looking bare, he bolts.
If he's here in 08-09... it does not look good for our future
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Look at some of the teams he won 50 games with...
Hell he got 40 out of rookie Dirk, Finley, Ceballos, E.Strickland, Bradley, early Nash (bad), Sean Rooks, Hubert Davis...
He's the worst thing for a middle of the road team that wants to win a ring... best thing if you are an owner. Prevents top level prospects from coming in via the draft and handcuffs your future to veterans w/a complete disregard for the future... its stunning that it happened here 10 years ago and people completely forgot..
Hell he got 40 out of rookie Dirk, Finley, Ceballos, E.Strickland, Bradley, early Nash (bad), Sean Rooks, Hubert Davis...
He's the worst thing for a middle of the road team that wants to win a ring... best thing if you are an owner. Prevents top level prospects from coming in via the draft and handcuffs your future to veterans w/a complete disregard for the future... its stunning that it happened here 10 years ago and people completely forgot..
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I love Nellie's presence as a coach as guys really respect him and, like Baron said, he's a boss in every sense of the word. He knows how to take control and sustain it. That being said, I think most of us wish he could play it more traditionally at times and end up hoping for an old dog to learn new tricks. Unfortunately it looks like it might not happen. It's a shame because it seems that Nellie believes that small-ball is what got him this far, while I happen to think it's his personality. It's almost as if small-ball is his crutch to fall back on and he's invested so much time and energy into it that he's afraid to change his philosophy in the twilight of his career.
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St.Nick wrote:We only want him to go traditional when we lose with small ball.
When we win with small ball no one (almost no one) says anything.
Is Nellie really the problem on this board or is it fickle Warriors fans?
Look you have a right to your opinion and I mean no disrespect of it, but at what point do you criticize the coach? When the team has a losing season? When it implodes and misses the playoffs for 13 years in the aftermath? In any case, that is completely results oriented and calls into question perhaps a lack of confidence in one's own observation skills and ability to take those observations and come to reasonable conclusions. Nellie not playing a kid who we've never seen produce consistently? Fine. I think POB has shown enough to warrant a small role but whatever, I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt. But this **** with Beans can not be overlooked, whether we're winning or losing. It's bullsh*t.
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Why not play Croshere more? Or why didn't he play Mbenga more minutes? Perhaps these guys could be more if they were given more of a chance.
There is probably a good reason why he does the things he does based on his observations in practice. Unfortunately we are only left with questions and sometimes odd answers involving strange, unprovable theories.
I do think that if Nellie had Carlos Boozer, Andrew Bynum, and Kevin Durant on his team that he wouldn't be sitting them....if you catch my drift.
There is probably a good reason why he does the things he does based on his observations in practice. Unfortunately we are only left with questions and sometimes odd answers involving strange, unprovable theories.
I do think that if Nellie had Carlos Boozer, Andrew Bynum, and Kevin Durant on his team that he wouldn't be sitting them....if you catch my drift.
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St.Nick wrote:I do think that if Nellie had Carlos Boozer, Andrew Bynum, and Kevin Durant on his team that he wouldn't be sitting them....if you catch my drift.
Lord help you if you truly believe that... Bynum would be sitting on the end of the bench fighting back tears by now.. Phil stuck to playing Bynum a lot and knew he'd eventually be a good player. Nellie would be developing his 3, talking about young and not ready he is.
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Thugleavy34 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Look you have a right to your opinion and I mean no disrespect of it, but at what point do you criticize the coach? When the team has a losing season? When it implodes and misses the playoffs for 13 years in the aftermath? In any case, that is completely results oriented and calls into question perhaps a lack of confidence in one's own observation skills and ability to take those observations and come to reasonable conclusions. Nellie not playing a kid who we've never seen produce consistently? Fine. I think POB has shown enough to warrant a small role but whatever, I'll give the coach the benefit of the doubt. But this **** with Beans can not be overlooked, whether we're winning or losing. It's bullsh*t.
I don't criticize the coach when we've won 60% of our games and improved drastically since his arrival.
When he has decidedly fallen off and the team is a surefire loser, I'll be there to make well thought out criticisms based on facts. I'm not going to do it after a bad 3 game stretch in an otherwise successful season.
Sorry if that makes me a stupid homer that doesn't know how to observe or criticize.
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St.Nick wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
I don't criticize the coach when we've won 60% of our games and improved drastically since his arrival.
When he has decidedly fallen off and the team is a surefire loser, I'll be there to make well thought out criticisms based on facts. I'm not going to do it after a bad 3 game stretch in an otherwise successful season.
Sorry if that makes me a stupid homer that doesn't know how to observe or criticize.
If I respond further, I'm going to make it personal and I don't want to do that on an internet message board. I won't be able to help it because that is how passionate I am about this team. I've said my piece, and I'm very frustrated right now. I'm not a hater. Any one who has read my posts knows this. I like Don Nelson. But I'm willing to call out a person I like when he does something that I just cannot agree with. My piece has been said. Now I'm going to saunter off and hope Beans stops getting the short end of an undeserved stick.
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Funny how Beans has put up his two best statistical seasons by far under Nellie.
I guess in our minds he could be a 20/10 guy by now if he was coached by Larry Brown or P-Jax.
(BTW, I'm not saying that he shouldn't play more. I'm just saying that its not as simple as "Nellie is screwing Beans! $%#$%$" )
Please don't take any of this personally. I'm writing this to you completely level headed and with the utmost respect. Seriously.
I guess in our minds he could be a 20/10 guy by now if he was coached by Larry Brown or P-Jax.
(BTW, I'm not saying that he shouldn't play more. I'm just saying that its not as simple as "Nellie is screwing Beans! $%#$%$" )
Please don't take any of this personally. I'm writing this to you completely level headed and with the utmost respect. Seriously.
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