Artest for the trade exception is a better deal

[Hopper15]

Trading a player as talented as Artest to a RIVAL and getting back nothing that legitimately helps the team is a flat out joke.

It gives them a crap load of options for one year, saves $3M this year, and no headaches about having to take crap back in a sign n trade over the summer.

Look what Seattle did with their TPE...turned it into three number ones.

What's not to like? I think the problem might be the fact that Oakland is 100 miles from Sac, but who cares? They'll be in Vegas soon enough.

[rpa]

Reading the Kings beat writer blog, Artest trade options shrinking by the minute.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/

One of the upsides of the Bibby trade is that the Kings can now take back matching salary for Artest (in the form of an expiring contract more than likely) WITHOUT going into the luxury tax. Had they kept Bibby they would have had to make the choice of either resigning Artest and going into the tax, S&Ting him and going into the tax, or relinquishing his rights for nothing and staying out of the tax.

I've been saying for a couple days that the above is a very strong point for the Kings holding onto Artest especially when you consider that most teams are reluctant to trade for Artest due to his contract situation more than anything. But a S&T means there aren't any contract/opt-out questions anymore. That, in theory, should up his value.

[Mylie10]

-= original quote snipped =-



You're delusional if you think the Kings would trade Artest for JUST a TPE. Actually, that's BEYOND delusional.

Further, a TPE doesn't fit what the Kings are trying to do at all. They're looking to CUT salary. The entire point of a TPE is that you can TAKE ON salary later.

Trading a player as talented as Artest to a RIVAL and getting back nothing that legitimately helps the team is a flat out joke.

Not necessarily. It's a trade piece.

Plus the Kings will be looking to sign someone in the offseason correct? Or are they gonna stand pat?

The TE gives the kings a piece to use or let expire next year. It can save you money down the road.

The division thing is a lame excuse. The revenue battle is unaffected for the remainder of this year, you guys suck.

Next year Artest goes after the big contract probably not in GS.

Again if you can work a sign and trade with him, then so be it, but your going way out on a limb with your other stuff.

[rpa]

It gives them a crap load of options for one year, saves $3M this year, and no headaches about having to take crap back in a sign n trade over the summer.

At the expense of giving him to a team in the region. Hell, there's a chance that between now and the end of the season the Maloofs could lose another $3mil in revenue just from casual fans and sponsorships jumping to a much better Warriors team.

Look what Seattle did with their TPE...turned it into three number ones.

And trades like this happen all the time huh?

What's not to like? I think the problem might be the fact that Oakland is 100 miles from Sac, but who cares? They'll be in Vegas soon enough.

This has been discussed to death already. There's absolutely no chance Vegas gets a team in the next 50 years, if ever.

[rpa]

Not necessarily. It's a trade piece.

It's only a trade piece if you want to take on salary (the Kings don't) or you find a team that's a) over the tax level, b) has an expiring contract they'll trade, & c) is willing to add 1st rounders to move it.

The trade exception isn't going to get a team a GOOD young player. And the second situation (which happened with Seattle this year) is beyond a rare case. Most teams that are afraid of the tax don't stray there to begin with.

Plus the Kings will be looking to sign someone in the offseason correct? Or are they gonna stand pat?

The Kings are going to be right around the cap next year. If they let Artest go they'd be right around $40mil in salary before adding in Martin & Moore's salaries. Those add up to about $12-13mil which means $52-53 total. It really depends where the cap is. But here's the thing:

if the Kings found a way to get under the cap that TPE would have to be waived. So, in reality, if the Kings do what they WANT to do then the TPE wouldn't even exist.

The TE gives the kings a piece to use or let expire next year. It can save you money down the road.

No it can't. The TPE means you can take more money back in a trade. How exactly does taking more back SAVE money?

The division thing is a lame excuse. The revenue battle is unaffected for the remainder of this year, you guys suck.

Do I need to repeat myself? The Maloofs nixed a trade with the Lakers, a [divisional] rival even though it would have helped the Kings

Again if you can work a sign and trade with him, then so be it, but your going way out on a limb with your other stuff.

A S&T makes the most sense at this point for all involved.

[Hopper15]

You're kind of contradicting yourself.

It's only a trade piece if you want to take on salary (the Kings don't)

A S&T makes the most sense at this point for all involved

How do you make a S&T without taking on salary?

[Chris Porter's Hair]

For the sign and trade you suggest to be a viable option, the Kings are reliant on finding someone who:
a) wants Artest
b) wants to pay him a lot
and either
c1) wants to give you back players that cost a lot, but don't have bad contracts, because you don't want those
c2) is under the cap by a lot

I'd contend the list of teams that are willing to pay Artest a lot and trade a valuable player to do so is *extremely* small. Who do you see doing such a thing?

[rpa]

You're kind of contradicting yourself.

It's only a trade piece if you want to take on salary (the Kings don't)

A S&T makes the most sense at this point for all involved

How do you make a S&T without taking on salary?

You take it on for a year so that you can get a piece in return (say a 1st rounder). Basically you're trading Artest for a 1st (or whatever piece of talent) and the filler is an expiring contract.

But with the trade exception you aren't giving up any talent so you have to find a team willing to give up a 1st rounder JUST to unload an expiring contract.

I probably should have said "long term" salary which is more what a TPE helps in in that you can pick up a good player with a bad salary for basically just the TPE.

TPE's, in general, are great for teams trying to contend but unless you luck out like the Sonics, they aren't good for rebuilding teams.

[Mylie10]

Just so you know buddy:

The TE exception can only be used in a deal up to the amount of the TE, not beyond that amount. So if you choose not to use it then it simply expires.

The only way it can be use in a trade is straight up or with a pick.

so if the Warriors traded it for Ronnie and a pick it would generate a TE for you guys for one year at the value of Ronnie's salary when traded.

so you could keep it and let it expire. (Which frees up Ronnies amount for you to use the following year)

Trade it for a player of equal or less value.

If you get a pick out of it as well, then all the better.

[rpa]

I'd contend the list of teams that are willing to pay Artest a lot and trade a valuable player to do so is *extremely* small. Who do you see doing such a thing?

Doesn't need to be a "valuable" player. Pick or picks are the most likely IMO.

Do the Knicks do Rose and some kind of value (Lee, unprotected future 1st, etc.) for Artest? Maybe

Do the Cavs use any of their 2009 expirings and a future pick or 2 for Artest? Wouldn't surprise me.


There really are a lot of possibilities out there. And of course the Kings could just let him walk for nothing if they don't get offered what they want. Any money off their cap at this point is a good thing.

[rpa]

Just so you know buddy:

The TE exception can only be used in a deal up to the amount of the TE, not beyond that amount. So if you choose not to use it then it simply expires.

The only way it can be use in a trade is straight up or with a pick.

so if the Warriors traded it for Ronnie and a pick it would generate a TE for you guys for one year at the value of Ronnie's salary when traded.

so you could keep it and let it expire. (Which frees up Ronnies amount for you to use the following year)

Trade it for a player of equal or less value.

If you get a pick out of it as well, then all the better.

I know how a pick works. My point is that the very definition of a TPE is that you're able to take back more salary than you give up (in this giving up $0 and taking back some amount).

My point is that the TPE isn't useful to the Kings because the number of teams that would allow them to use it in a way they'd want to (getting back a pick but no longterm salary) is even smaller than the number of teams that would do a S&T for Artest.

Further, the thing I've mostly responded to is either:
a) Artest to the Warriors for nothing but the TPE. No pick, no other players, nothing. The TPE + pick is at least an argument. Just the TPE is flat out delusional
b) Why the Kings may as well just trade Artest to the Nuggets for their pick & expiring contracts over the TPE/pick. The TPE just won't do the Kings much because of how it works. 99% they'd just let it expire which is pretty much the same as getting expiring contracts back. The plus to taking the expiring contracts is you aren't trading him to a team 100 miles away.

[thetrueth]

and the kings get nothing...

[Sports_1140]

Heres to the KINGS HATERS I beve a bunch of warriors postrs said there WAS NO CHANCE THAT ARTEST WOULD STAY WITHT HE KINGS AFTER THIS SEASON RIGHT?

Here you go.

Of course (Artest not being traded) changes a lot of about your perspective; a lot of things change," said Stevens, whose client will earn $7.4 million next season if he doesn't opt out. "Exercising our option at this point is possible, but not likely.


"It's possible, but it's not likely to happen at this point."


"There were situations where his name was mentioned in trade rumors, and - like anyone else - that brings an unsteadiness and an apprehension to (in regards to) your value to the organization," Stevens said. "But after seeing some of the moves that they have made, and their steady effort to keep him there, Ron is happy being in Sacramento...We're happy that this trade process went the way it went, and he's trying to do his best to make a push for the playoffs and help be a leader for this young team."



http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/730413.html


So much for knicks fans thinking he would just go to ny for the mle. And so much for all kings haters that thought there WAS NO CHANCE he would stay with the kings.

[FNQ]

Wow, you have a quote from an agent?

I'm sure that will shut up everyone on this board... quotes are ironclad, unturnable. I mean he said it was possible to be a King next year... that would be good enough for me too (were I desperate to make a point that holds 0 water)

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't say I was sure he wouldn't stay in Sacramento. I do, however, feel pretty confident that if he does, that isn't a good thing for Sacramento.

[Sports_1140]

Well this was basically to end the conversation that warriors fans said if you dont trade artest then its stupid because THERES NO CHANCE ARTEST COMES BACK TO THE KINGS NEXT YEAR. So now those people cant say anything like that at all. ANd thats what matters.

Next How could signing artest to a CHEAP DEAL. It would be around 8-9 million dollars per year ( no one else has cap room) to a young late 20's, defensive stud, heart of the team like artest?

I;m sorry but I disagree with you saying it would be bad. Not only would it be good, but I bet you anything Artest re-signs to a long term deal witht he kings.

[Hopper15]

Trade deadline over. Artest plays for the Kings. You can discuss over there.