Sound familiar?

[ILOVEIT]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archi ... am_leader/

It's interesting how Dunleavy...again...being one of the more talented players....just doesn't have the personality to take a leadership role. It's funny how personalities just can totally limit players.... Bird, Baron, Timmy Hardaway....They would step on the floor and be THE man.... Guys like Dunleavy....Jason Richardson...and yes...even Chris Mullin...just don't have the make up to be a vocal leader.....

Not dumping Mike really...just seeing what USED to be a huge issue for the Warriors....a team without anyone with the balls to be a leader.....

Now thankfully we have at least two in Jackson and Baron....

[warriortone]

[Hopper15]

I wouldn't want him to be a leader. He should be a 3rd or 4th banana on a good team. I would have been happy with consistent output when he was here, but it never happened until the pressure was off. He had a nice first half this year, but has kind of leveled off in the second half.

[Sleepy51]

I think you might be reading into that wrong.

Remeber, the Pacers have two high productivity veterans (JO & tins) who are pretty much on their way out. I think more than a slam against Dun this was Bird giving him and Granger permission, instruction, support to start being vocal and start taking the leadership roles away from the lame duck vets.

As much as Dun dissapointed here, he's doing well for the Pacers and was doing well when the games still counted. I highly doubt Bird was slamming his most promising young players. Much more likely, he was announcing that despite no trade moves, the team will be going in a different direction in the near future, and he wants Dun and or Granger to start defining themselves in the locker room.

Of course Dun can still blow it down the road, but this wasn't a slam. It was an announcement that JO and Tins do not need to be deferred to or emulated.

[zero]

i wouldn't put jason and mully in the same "leadership" category as dunleavy. true those two weren't vocal, but they damn sure lead by example. i even think that if jason were here this year he wouldn't have let us lose games like min. or to the bulls. he wouldn't have taken those games for granted and he wouldn't allow his teammates to do the same... heck, he did that at the end of last year.

dunleavy has none of that. he's no vocal leader, he's no leader by example. he is no leader.

[Sleepy51]

Have you guys WATCHED Dunleavy play in a Pacer game yet this year? He really has been a different guy.

Sometimes players really do change with a change of scenery and culture. Otherwise, Baron should have gone chernobyl on us by now.

[Yi Jian Lian]

the dunk dunleavy had this year really showed me something.

[Sleepy51]

Q. Does this team have necessary leadership?
A. You know, these guys get along very well. I think they like one another, but that's not leadership. I don't think we have what I call a great leader in that locker room. Players will say, 'Come on, I'm a leader.' No. It's not there. When a guy's late, if you have a leader he goes to that guy and says, 'Look, we don't do that here.' If a guy misses a bus, 'We don't have that.' If the team gets beat on a last-second shot and a guy misses a defensive assignment, the leader goes to that guy and says, 'Hey, come on, what are you thinking?' We don't have that. And until we have that we will struggle, at times, there's no question about it. But as far as 'the leader,' no, we don't have that.

Q. Can it develop from someone on the team or must it be brought from the outside?
A. It's tough to bring a player in the first year to be a leader from outside. I can see Danny Granger, over time, being that. Danny's one of them kids that comes in here right now, looks around, keeps his mouth shut, practices hard, plays hard, takes everything in and goes home. I know what he's thinking. His time will come and he'll probably be that guy.

Q. Are the team's ongoing fourth-quarter problems a sign of that lack of leadership?
A. They get very down on themselves because the same thing's happening over and over. If you notice, in the last however many games we've been in and lost, it's always been the key player from the other team making the plays to win the games. We haven't got that out there. Ours is hurt. Until we get him back we probably will struggle in that area. But at the same time, a lot of our young guys are going through some situations knowing what they have to do to get us over the hump. As we go forward, I think these guys will be good enough and learn enough from these stars that are doing this to us that they will overcome that and continue to get better at that.

More from the Pacer board with more complete quotes. Sounds like he's pretty clearly giving Dun a pass as a 1st year trade guy, and Granger a pass for being young, but those are the guys he wants to lead.

This was Bird giving them the keys despite no trade activity to move out the vets. It wasn't him bashing. It was him saying "the position is open if you will step up and take it."[/quote]

[zero]

i've seen him play. and yes he is a MUCH better player. that doesn't make him a leader either. i think andris monta are fantastic players, but i think monta is more of leader. there's a difference and it's something he can learn, but he's not there yet.

[Sleepy51]

i've seen him play. and yes he is a MUCH better player. that doesn't make him a leader either. i think andris monta are fantastic players, but i think monta is more of leader. there's a difference and it's something he can learn, but he's not there yet.

No arguement there. He certainly wasn't successful as a leader here, and it's NOT always something that can be learned. The charisma factor is rarely under your own control.

But my point was specifically that Bird is not complaining about any failure on Dun's part to lead this season. I think he made a point to exempt Dun and Granger from critique, and the full text of the press conference reads to me like a statement of support for the replacement of the current "leaders" JO and Tins, with anyone else who wants the job.

He basically just fired his "halfway out the door" vets as leaders and asked someone else to replace them.

[Mylie10]

Has anyone else noticed that Tinsley appears to be the real scumbag of the former Pacer tough guy unit.

By all accounts Jax is a great team-mate.

Artest although combustable has former team-mates taking up for him around the league.

But Tinsley who always flew under the radar seems to be the total jerk of that group.

While Jax and Ronnie took the bullets, Tinsley sat back and then continued his jerk behavior after those guys left.

The day the Pacers get rid of that guy will be the day that Granger and Dun can truly make it there team. Not saying that it isn't going in that direction now, but I'm sure Tins needs to go before the transformation can complete.

Duns reverting back to his triple single status right now. I think he's worried that Yi might grab the title from him.

[floppymoose]

This is an odd thread, because he doesn't mention Dunleavy at all. The comment about it being tough for a player to be a leader in his first year is *not* about Dunleavy. It's about a hypothetical player getting acquired in a trade going forward.

That he mentions Danny and not Mike is interesting. My take on the comments is: our leader is either going to be Danny or someone I trade for, and if it's someone I trade for it may take a season before they are the leader.

[cdubbz]

You can't fault dunleavy for not being a leader. I'm a firm believe that a person is naturally born a leader. It is very difficult to become a leader if you werent born to be one.

Dunleavy has never been the leader from Duke to the NBA. At Duke he has Jay Williams and Shane Battier who were the leaders of that team and Dunleavy was able to become a nice role player. In the NBA people assumed he would blossom into a leader, but he never really had leadership qualities in him. If Dunleavy was drafted in the late first round than he would be a great player, but since he is associated with the #3 pick he is garbage. pretty funny.

[ILOVEIT]

Have you guys WATCHED Dunleavy play in a Pacer game yet this year? He really has been a different guy.

Sometimes players really do change with a change of scenery and culture. Otherwise, Baron should have gone chernobyl on us by now.

Yeah...I wasn't suggesting he hasn't played better.... I'm just saying that he's the kind of guy that just goes silent when teams could REALLY use a leader.

[ILOVEIT]

You can't fault dunleavy for not being a leader. I'm a firm believe that a person is naturally born a leader. It is very difficult to become a leader if you werent born to be one.

Dunleavy has never been the leader from Duke to the NBA. At Duke he has Jay Williams and Shane Battier who were the leaders of that team and Dunleavy was able to become a nice role player. In the NBA people assumed he would blossom into a leader, but he never really had leadership qualities in him. If Dunleavy was drafted in the late first round than he would be a great player, but since he is associated with the #3 pick he is garbage. pretty funny.

True...and...Dunleavy shouldn't be getting crap from Warrior fans....Mullin should (I assume he was the one that selected him....maybe not?).

Anyway....just thought was interesting how Indianna had some strong leadership guys in Jackson and Harrington (Harrington at least in terms of energy and emotion) and they got two silent followers in Dunleavy and Murphy...

[Sid the Squid]

Youve got Al being an All-Star in the east and the leader of the warriors?


I really believe there has to be life in other galaxy's...

[KR4]

I really believe there has to be life in other galaxy's...

You're in the wrong forum my friend. Please post your posits about life in other galaxies here - http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=76414