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Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 6:34 am**

Lame Duck...That what Nellie's going to be..Not a good situation for the W's..Cohan owes our ODB 5.1 mil...So he's going be here until Feb or March..But will the players completely tune Nellie out?

Not a good situation at all..Destined to end with another tragic Nellie meltdown..You go to know Nellie would never turn down 5.1

Lame Duck in more ways than one.

Tank in 09!!

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2 ... #more-1014

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 7:01 am**

Such an incisive post! Nellie is going to be in the last year of his contract? What a scoop!

Tell me, do you ever get tired of writing the same propaganda in every post you make? You would have made Goebbels proud.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 1:29 pm**

Tim is off the mark here.

#1, D'Antonio is by no means conclusively a better coach than Nellie. He's had better talent. Nash (no defense and all) is by far a superior player for small/uptempo ball. He's a deserved two time MVP (as long as defense doesn't count) and he's a premier shooter. Amare is better than any of our bigs, and Marion was BY FAR superior to Al/Pete/Bukie/Barnes. You swap talent for the last 3 years and our team makes Nellie look superior to D'Antoni.

The other strike is his assumption that Baron and Jack tuned Nellie out. I see it the other way. Nellie tuned the team out (that doesn't mean they didn't suck, but they we have no evidence that they were being told not to suck in any particular way.) From my observation, Nellie pulled the pluug when the Webber experiment failed. Like last year, when he was ready to shut it down with Baron's injury, Nellie decided once his PF/passing solution didn't take that we were not going to be able to compete this year. He put lot of emotional hopes into the Webber experiment. When that flopped, it appeared to me that Nellie lost focus/interest and didn't provide much in the way of leadership from the bench. I didn't see any particular signs that Nellie was trying to accomplish anything different on the court and/or meeting with any particular resistance. I did see him let us stick with a defensive scheme of his design that stopped working when Jack's feet went bad and I saw us abandon the zone breaker playsets that worked with Baron in the high post. I also saw us almost never front any big men when Dre was out, which was our calling card defense during our stretch run last year.

One could suppose that we didn't run any of our successful stuff because the players were ignoring him, but then, why didn't coach change the bodies on the floor if that was the case? Nellie did not expect to succeed this season once Webb went home. From body language, decisionmaking and attitude on the bench, it looked to me a lot more like a coach just went along for the ride.

That said, I still have the inkling of hope that Nellie has a more aggressive agenda and plan for next season if he's given the tools he believes we need to compete. I KNOW that Baron and Jack have no room in their careers to have a blowout with a coach at this juncture. I don't think you move Nellie out to bring in another smallball coach, (especially the guy who asked Boris Diaw to lead his team over the Spurs.) If ROWELL is dissatisfied with Nellie's position going into this season, then this era is over. I'm not in any hurry for that to be the case, but if it is (considering how far the tide has risen over our heads in the west) then you face the music. And if we're changing coaches, we should be getting away from smallball, because there really is no one better at smallball than Nellie. D'Antoni is largely a product of having a hall of fame talent. I am not a believer.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 2:21 pm**

Sleepy51 wrote:Tim is off the mark here.

#1, D'Antonio is by no means conclusively a better coach than Nellie. He's had better talent. Nash (no defense and all) is by far a superior player for small/uptempo ball. He's a deserved two time MVP (as long as defense doesn't count) and he's a premier shooter. Amare is better than any of our bigs, and Marion was BY FAR superior to Al/Pete/Bukie/Barnes. You swap talent for the last 3 years and our team makes Nellie look superior to D'Antoni.

The other strike is his assumption that Baron and Jack tuned Nellie out. I see it the other way. Nellie tuned the team out (that doesn't mean they didn't suck, but they we have no evidence that they were being told not to suck in any particular way.) From my observation, Nellie pulled the pluug when the Webber experiment failed. Like last year, when he was ready to shut it down with Baron's injury, Nellie decided once his PF/passing solution didn't take that we were not going to be able to compete this year. He put lot of emotional hopes into the Webber experiment. When that flopped, it appeared to me that Nellie lost focus/interest and didn't provide much in the way of leadership from the bench. I didn't see any particular signs that Nellie was trying to accomplish anything different on the court and/or meeting with any particular resistance. I did see him let us stick with a defensive scheme of his design that stopped working when Jack's feet went bad and I saw us abandon the zone breaker playsets that worked with Baron in the high post. I also saw us almost never front any big men when Dre was out, which was our calling card defense during our stretch run last year.

One could suppose that we didn't run any of our successful stuff because the players were ignoring him, but then, why didn't coach change the bodies on the floor if that was the case? Nellie did not expect to succeed this season once Webb went home. From body language, decisionmaking and attitude on the bench, it looked to me a lot more like a coach just went along for the ride.

That said, I still have the inkling of hope that Nellie has a more aggressive agenda and plan for next season if he's given the tools he believes we need to compete. I KNOW that Baron and Jack have no room in their careers to have a blowout with a coach at this juncture. I don't think you move Nellie out to bring in another smallball coach, (especially the guy who asked Boris Diaw to lead his team over the Spurs.) If ROWELL is dissatisfied with Nellie's position going into this season, then this era is over. I'm not in any hurry for that to be the case, but if it is (considering how far the tide has risen over our heads in the west) then you face the music. And if we're changing coaches, we should be getting away from smallball, because there really is no one better at smallball than Nellie. D'Antoni is largely a product of having a hall of fame talent. I am not a believer.

Good Post Sleepy. :thumbsup:

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 2:47 pm**

Picking up that option so early was a huge mistake.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 3:28 pm**

Night Angel 1 wrote:Picking up that option so early was a huge mistake.

+ 1

Perhaps the biggest Warriors mistake all season (amongst many). They should have at least waited until they clinched the playoff spot. They were so sure he was going to make it. Pretty damn stupid, no need to jump the gun.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 3:30 pm**

Problem is Sleepy,

The FO never gave Nellie what he needed last year. He wanted to deal. He grasped at straws with Webber because that's all the FO would give him. Another 1 million dollar trial balloon.

Hudson, Croshere, MBenga, Webber

You can hardly look at that list and think that's the FO doing their best to get help on the court.

We could have added:

Kurt Thomas (Who proved how valuable last year and this year in the playoffs)

Ron Artest

Maybe some others.

I believe that the TE was never an option and the FO will simply let it expire. They won't try to get more pieces out of it, they'll just SAVE the MONEY.

It makes me sick....Because as a fan, I need to know that my front office will pull the trigger and get help when needed.

When you're on the cusp of making the playoffs for only the 2nd time in 14 years, then you make deals to help your players out. Reducing minutes and adding toughness would have made the difference this year.

Nellie wasn't gonna play Wright enough to make a difference because of his physical appearance. That one's on Nellie.

Not getting help for the stretch run...That one's on the FO big time.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 3:32 pm**

The Nellie option was no mistake... as bad as Cohan is it getting winning basketball here, he sure knows where the money is.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 3:36 pm**

I don't about Jack, but to say Baron didnt tune out Nellie and the season is not what I observed..And berore you protest, look back at Baron's trackrecord with quitting on coaches and teams..Baron quit..We all know it, some just would rather be homers and not admit to the major problems the warriors have.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 4:15 pm**

I remain unconvinced on the quitting front, and I'm not Baron homer. I'm the guy that called him lardbutt, tubby and coined the term "Bad Baron" for his first year and a half here.

Here's the deal. We do not start fom the same set of givens. I do not define what happened in New Orleans as "quitting on the New Orleans coaches." He never wanted to play in New Orleans after Silas was fired. His beef was always with the franchise, right or wrong. The coaches were bystanders. It had nothing to do with "quitting" he was at war with his employer.

(I personally think firing Silas for Floyd was absolutely inexcusable as a basketball fan, so I will admit to that bias up front.)

Team USA, doesn't ring any bells with me. I honestly didn't pay very close attention. I have no data on that one.

Monty: are you saying he faked injury in 06 with Monty? I thought he had taken crappy care of his body since UCLA and was injury prone because of it. Was he faking injury like Peitrus?

I still think Baron played like crap after the break because he played too much before the break. He's a 60 game player at 40 mpg. That's almost exactly what we got out of him. Everything in his injury history points to that. I think either we define the term "quitting" differently, or this is another one of those things being starkly colored by our respective previouosly held biases (your team USA impression, my feelings about the Silas firing.) When opposing sides come to an argument with such strong preconceptions, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Lastly, Al and Jack had the same kind of performance falloff that Baron did at roughly the same time. Are Al and Jack quitters too?

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 4:44 pm**

Sleepy51 wrote:I remain unconvinced on the quitting front, and I'm not Baron homer. I'm the guy that called him lardbutt, tubby and coined the term "Bad Baron" for his first year and a half here.

Here's the deal. We do not start fom the same set of givens. I do not define what happened in New Orleans as "quitting on the New Orleans coaches." He never wanted to play in New Orleans after Silas was fired. His beef was always with the franchise, right or wrong. The coaches were bystanders. It had nothing to do with "quitting" he was at war with his employer.

Monty: are you saying he faked injury in 06 with Monty?

He signed a huge contract with the hornets and then proceed to move that contract to California by quitting on the team..Baron quits all the time..Everybody knows this (except for the 5 billion retards on this planet)

Of course he fakes injuries..He even faked one on Byron Scott..He didnt play all season until the game before the trade to the W's..You know where he was that whole time? In La La Land rehabing :rofl:

Of course Baron has tuned out Nellie..This is what Baron does..

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 4:56 pm**

Everything you are saying makes sense if you start from a particular set of given assumptions. The problem is that some of those given assumptions are a wee bit . . . (Please Use More Appropriate Word)? (to borrow a phrase)

We're OT anyway, this thread was about Nellie.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 5:05 pm**

Sid the Squid wrote:
Of course Baron has tuned out Nellie..This is what Baron does..

And how do you "tune out" a guy who's asleep on the bench next to a pile of empty scoth bottles?

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 5:51 pm**

Sleepy51 wrote:Tim is off the mark here.

#1, D'Antonio is by no means conclusively a better coach than Nellie. He's had better talent. Nash (no defense and all) is by far a superior player for small/uptempo ball. He's a deserved two time MVP (as long as defense doesn't count) and he's a premier shooter. Amare is better than any of our bigs, and Marion was BY FAR superior to Al/Pete/Bukie/Barnes. You swap talent for the last 3 years and our team makes Nellie look superior to D'Antoni.

The other strike is his assumption that Baron and Jack tuned Nellie out. I see it the other way. Nellie tuned the team out (that doesn't mean they didn't suck, but they we have no evidence that they were being told not to suck in any particular way.) From my observation, Nellie pulled the pluug when the Webber experiment failed. Like last year, when he was ready to shut it down with Baron's injury, Nellie decided once his PF/passing solution didn't take that we were not going to be able to compete this year. He put lot of emotional hopes into the Webber experiment. When that flopped, it appeared to me that Nellie lost focus/interest and didn't provide much in the way of leadership from the bench. I didn't see any particular signs that Nellie was trying to accomplish anything different on the court and/or meeting with any particular resistance. I did see him let us stick with a defensive scheme of his design that stopped working when Jack's feet went bad and I saw us abandon the zone breaker playsets that worked with Baron in the high post. I also saw us almost never front any big men when Dre was out, which was our calling card defense during our stretch run last year.

One could suppose that we didn't run any of our successful stuff because the players were ignoring him, but then, why didn't coach change the bodies on the floor if that was the case? Nellie did not expect to succeed this season once Webb went home. From body language, decisionmaking and attitude on the bench, it looked to me a lot more like a coach just went along for the ride.

That said, I still have the inkling of hope that Nellie has a more aggressive agenda and plan for next season if he's given the tools he believes we need to compete. I KNOW that Baron and Jack have no room in their careers to have a blowout with a coach at this juncture. I don't think you move Nellie out to bring in another smallball coach, (especially the guy who asked Boris Diaw to lead his team over the Spurs.) If ROWELL is dissatisfied with Nellie's position going into this season, then this era is over. I'm not in any hurry for that to be the case, but if it is (considering how far the tide has risen over our heads in the west) then you face the music. And if we're changing coaches, we should be getting away from smallball, because there really is no one better at smallball than Nellie. D'Antoni is largely a product of having a hall of fame talent. I am not a believer.

I agree with a lot of this. I'm not thinking that Baron/Jax or whoever failed to try to bring their best. I do think Nellie needed to be able to come up with fresh pragmatic answers-but tended to just rely on old habits.
D'Antoni? I see the best of Nellie in him without some of those frustrating obsessions. D'Antoni may have ended up with a nice talent pool but a lot of that was that he maximized whatever he got. What were Bell and Diaw when they arrived? Nash was no All Star when the Suns got him and Amare was a suspect high school guy we passed on.

Nellie won't volunteer to walk away from $5 mill-Cohen won't buy him off then be high bidder for D'Antoni. I'd like to think that COULD happen but the odds are real slim.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 6:03 pm**

Nash was absolutely becomming the most special offensive player in the league when D'Antoni got him. He his 3 point shooting into the stratosphere in the last two years with Mike D, but his ability to BE the engine for an offense and play the pure passer/floor general PG position was only rivaled by Jason Kidd at that time.

D'Antoni has had superiror talent. You can split hairs farther down the bench, but Nash, Marion, Amare > Baron, Jack, Al. It is what it is.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 6:17 pm**

What, all because the Suns GM made a bad move it's D

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 6:38 pm**

the best part about that article is the 7th comment where the guy brings up CJ Watsons blog... CJ basically says Nellie doesn't run plays, and doesn't care to make adjustments during timeouts.

Without an allstar lineup, Nellie isn't getting close to a title. We have a good team, in fact, I like Baron/sjax/Al as players and leaders. But, they aren't good enough to be a title contender with Nelly, and they aren't good enough to be a playoff team without Nellie. I like the guys, but its a lose lose situation unless you are satisfied with exciting 8th seed battles.

Posted: **Thu May 1, 2008 6:49 pm**

Souvlaki wrote:What, all because the Suns GM made a bad move it's D

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Nellie fans who are drinking the Kool-Aid..Don't open this

Nellie fans who are drinking the Kool-Aid..Don't open this