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The debate's been going on for a while, and I've still yet to understand any arguments as to why some people are adverse to trading Baron. This is all I've gotten so far, so if I'm missing something, please pro-Baroners, give me a reason to keep the guy!

Trading Baron

PROs:

- makes Monta the franchise player and affords him more time as the PG role

- less chucking / better ball movement / better fundamentals

- spotty injury past

- questionable work ethic (being generous here) and questionable heart

- in a contract year, his play usually goes up, therefore increasing his value beyond an expiring

- could signify the end of the gimmick and the return to fundmental, winning basketball (re: Nellie quits?)

- any perceived success this year could result in Baron / Nellie extensions, thus elongating a gimmick and further committing to it when our young personnel is not equipped for it

- trading him now, when he can work out extensions and with teams who are still fooling themselves into thinking they are contenders (ahem, Cuban), maximizes the options and therefore, the value

- worst case scenario, we go back to the lottery and add another piece to our core

- most, if not all trade scenarios would involve a large expiring contract coming back, therefore negating Baron's value, to us, as an expiring contract

CONS:

- box office attendance / public relations issues

- as mentioned before, Baron plays better when his own money is at stake

- Monta may not be ready to be PG

- potentially going back into the lottery and not having the personnel to draft us out (re: Monta/Biedrins/Wright aren't ready to be the core of the team and our FO can't draft another piece)



It's seemed to me for quite a while that the pro's heavily outweigh the cons. But I'd like to know if anyone can give me a really logical argument as to why keeping Baron, even til midseason, is a better idea for the present and future of the franchise more than shopping him hard this offseason.

By the way, if the reason is selfish - entertainment purposes - then just come out and say it... there's no argument to that. But I'm really confused on how people think keeping Baron actually helps our franchise.

If Baron Davis stays then Jessica Alba will keep on coming...thats reason enough.

Also I dont believe ellis is ready for full time point gaurd duties. He can play for short periods of time, but not our full time point gaurd. The only upside i see about ellis playing pg right now is that we would have a big gaurd combo with a 6'3 pg and hopefully a 6'5+ shooting gaurd.

Losing Alba hurts...

So basically, in any deal, the gameplan would have to involve getting an insurance PG (or a starting PG where Monta can shave minutes from - so preferrably, a good shooting PG)... or we can use the draft for that. A real concern but very addressable. What else?

Your question is missing a very important context...

For me it depends 100% on the deal - I'm happy to see Baron traded if the Warriors get a player or players back that make the team better, next season or over the next few years. But I think such a deal is unlikely.

Personally I don't believe that simply excising Baron from the squad makes the team better, and in fact find any such assertion (which all around the League, you'd probably find only on this board btw) highly dubious.

I'll take a shot...Prior to Baron Davis, what PG did we have in years past brings what Baron brings to the table right now?....Exactly...it wasn't until the Tim Hardaway days that we have had a PG that should do everything a PG should do. Getting Baron revitalized a franchise known to be perennial lottery team.

The way I see is that Baron can go in either two directions. He can sulk,bitch and demand a trade. Or he can play out the final year of his contract and let his play/action command for a bigger pay day. Baron I think is going to do the latter. He knows the NBA is a business and if you want to get what you want, you have to work for it.

Here's my reasons why we keep Baron for the present and the future.

If you're the GM of NBA franchise and the league knows you're desperate to shop a certain player in the offseason, what type of player do you think you're going to get in return. Also what kind of message are sending out to the other GM's about that certain player.

Charlotte made it known that they wanted to get rid of BD in the offseason and who would of thought that we had a chance to get Baron Davis...We got him for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis(Expiring contract) for crying out loud?

Also the W's franchise has more time to market, upsell his value than what he did in just one bad game in the regular season.

Monta clearly is not ready but what better to player to learn and or expand his game than Baron Davis. Baron continues to mentor Monta.

In short, dealing one of best players in our team could come back to cripple the franchise even more by getting rid of him for nothing.

I've seen your posts for a while bud... its time to come to reality.

Baron didn't revitalize ****... it wasn't until Jax came to town that we became the 'winning' team we are now. We were 0-6 without him to start. He didn't revitalize us when he was dealt here, he didn't revitalize when Nellie got here.

You made it seem like Baron understands hard work. This coming from a guy whos a notorious nightman and who on average misses 10-20 games a season. One 82 game season and that's erased? He expected an extension!

EVERY team believes they can turn around a talent, and thats why I targeted several desperate franchises: ATL and DAL, specifically. Dallas is falling apart with Cuban's trade for Kidd - so now, getting Baron for Kidd could help that, PR wise. ATL has a new GM and knows their current roster isn't going to amount to much. Why not add a big name PG for an EC and a player at a position they are loaded at (Marvin)?

Monta is clearly not ready? Based on what? Saying it doesn't make it factual. And he's learning from Baron - what is he learning? To take plays off? Or to dribble for 15 seconds and then chuck 3s? Thats just wildly inaccurate on all parts, especially saying "who better to teach Monta". How about ANYONE?

In short, dealing one of best players in our team could come back to cripple the franchise even more by getting rid of him for nothing.

You did absolutely nothing to describe how this could happen. It was like a trainwreck of misinformation and its about time your accountable for it.

Twinkie defense wrote:Your question is missing a very important context...

For me it depends 100% on the deal - I'm happy to see Baron traded if the Warriors get a player or players back that make the team better, next season or over the next few years. But I think such a deal is unlikely.

Personally I don't believe that simply excising Baron from the squad makes the team better, and in fact find any such assertion (which all around the League, you'd probably find only on this board btw) highly dubious.

Has been addressed before, multiple scenarios produced, all of them somewhat realistic on both sides. Each one brings back a future player / good draft pick and a large EC - I believe the lowest I proposed was the 9m expiring of Fatoine along w/Jaric and the #3. But then there's the DAL, ATL, LAC deals. CLE is also an option (perhaps in a 3way).

It all comes down to what Baron's value is... if we cant even get the DAL deal (Kidd/Bass) done, then yes, I'd sit on Baron and let him expire. But I'd believe just his marketing value makes that bar an easy one to get over.

Atlanta has no draft picks, right?
There is no deal with Atlanta.

Delete Baron and we are again re-designing all our strategy and tactics. Then a year later-adios Nellie and we are again redesigning everything.

Meanwhile.....Portland gets Oden back and all those young guns are a bit older and wiser. Sea and Minny each add a high lotto to a rising young core. Brand is (maybe) back at or near full strength and they add a lotto.

We had to battle 8 good teams to reach the playoffs and just missed-ending up #9. Can we deal Baron and even hang on to the #9 slot or do we drop to 11 or 12? How long then does it take to battle back to halfway up the food chain?

This draft? VERY speculative. Aside from a wetdream idea of us getting Beasley at a discount-I don't see us getting great payoff from chasing a higher slot. There MIGHT be some deal I have yet to see where we get a lower pick and players who ARE NBA proven,yet have further upside. We KNOW that for now we lack the stuff to do much with any rook who's not plug and play.

Baron + Monta makes a very high impact backcourt. It's hard to stop both. If you want tempo-they do that. As a PG,can Monta push the pace like Baron? Can we replace the impact of Monta as a SG being a breakout guy on a fast break? Who's the 2? Jax? Azu? Do we get a for sure big boost in rebounds,in the paint scoring?

Next summer we likely say goodbye to Nellie and will have a new coach re-making things. THEN is a time to make moves that are in sybch with the new coach and whatever progress the roster makes. You can't always be an unstable "pickup game" team. Somewhere,someday,you commit and build something more than a rough frame.

In a year Baron goes..or Baron returns. Trade him then-it's an S+T and team X knows what his price is. Keep him? Uh...why not. Trading our top guy is a path this team has taken often and it's hardly ever paid off. If the price is right-having Baron stay may be wise. If he just bolts-big cap space and we audition mercenaries.

ROWELL wrote:Atlanta has no draft picks, right?
There is no deal with Atlanta.

Of cours there is Josh Mutha Lovin Smith Baby.

Baron,#14
4
Bibby,Smoove, Future Pick Lottery Protected

Monta
Smoove
Wright
Beans

Not really for keeping Baron but Baron usually does draw the best perimeter defender ...

There are plenty of deals with ATL... jeezus RO, smoke some weed and open your mind

Seriously... CLE is a great target for us to take advantage of. How about -

CLE gets: Mike Bibby, Kosta Perovic, 2009 ATL 2nd
CLE gives: #19, Wally Szczerbiak, Damon Jones

ATL gets: Baron Davis, #14, Belinelli
ATL gives: Mike Bibby, Marvin Williams, 2nd 2009, Zaza Pachulia

GS gets: #19 (Brandon Rush), Wally Szczerbiak (buyout) , Damon Jones, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia
GS gives: Baron Davis, #14, Kosta Perovic

Monta / DJ
Jax / Rush
Marvin / Rush
Al / Wright
Biedrins / Pachulia

We'd still need to ink a PG, but value wise I'd think we hit the jackpot

Rather just take Rush, avoid Bibby, and call it a day.
No trades out of draft position, pothead.

Here's a case:

125-102 and a playoff series with
33-68 without

Which do you prefer?

I've made it clear that he's not worth keeping around at his current salary. But, to completely dismiss his impact is ridiculous. I'd gladly keep him around at the salaries of a Billups or Nash.

It's amazing how Jason Kidd gets a complete pass, having done the same or worse on the court and much worse off of it. Oh, yeah, and he's due a lot more money. This guy would cry so hard if he were to be traded here. Double standards, anyone?

First off, I'd like to reiterate rem's post...He raises many questions for the W's FO to decide on for the upcoming season...

510, Getting Kidd or Marvin Williams would NOT be enough for Baron imo. Kidd would strictly be a bad PR move and he's on the down swing of his career. As far Marvin Williams...give me a break he's no better than Mickeal Pietrus and Harrington combined.

Now If ATL/Dallas was dealing/shopping Josh Smith/Howard, then I'd consider taking either player. For Dallas, I'd target Josh Howard instead of Kidd. Ellis, Howard and SJAX or Ellis,SJaX,JSmith would make a great backcourt for the future. I'd jump all over killacalijatt's proposed deal but doubt ATL gives up Bibby.

I'm all for the best and right deal for the W's but don't make Baron seem like he's the cancer of this team.

Don Nelson and Baron Davis love those win totals.
They both mention them all the time these days.

Now that i think of it I think we should keep Baron. Why mess with something that is good ? The warriors have been in the gutter for more than a decade and we finally get a team that can make the playoffs and is exciting to make noise in the league. The only reason for tossing baron davis at this point is if we cant have baron, and extend monta and biedrins.

Theirs no room in the west for rebuilding because it looks like a long road...portland, sacramento, clippers are getting better and the sonics should be coming up in a few years. If we can keep baron, monta and AB then i say we should do it. Theirs other ways to get better than trading one of the teams leaders....we have many trade pieces in harrington and pietrus.

I guess the Baron/Kidd thing would look like a double standard if you inaccurately oversimplify the two's careers.

Everytime Kidd's gone somewhere, the record has shot up. The teammates have shot up. The team becomes good. But the team has never surrounded him with a good cast, now being surrounded by chucker VC and Richar_ Jefferson. He's a fundamental player.

Then you have Baron, who played hard on his rookie contract and then lost interest after inking it. He clashed with coaches, essentially sat out a year, and in total has quit on 3 separate (incarnations of) teams. He's a poor shooter that loves to shoot. Yet after 10 years apparently his contributions on the court match that of a REAL PG, a REAL player of the game.

So yes, if we factor out all pertinent data, Baron's basketball career is comparable to Kidd's.