Azubuike

[calderon13]

Bosjtan Nachbar for Kelenna Azubuike

Is it a fair deal? Why or Why not?

[WarFan]

They're both FA's. If you really want Buike, offer him a starting salary of about $4 million and I doubt GS matches. You could maybe go as low as $3 million and they might not match.

[old rem]

No

Nachbar is as good as he'll ever be and Azu is already better. Nachbar wuld not really fit any role here very well,is a tweener F not as good as the tweener F's we have. We may lose much of our experianced depth. Azu might be the main backup at both SG + SF

[Abyss Impact]

^ wow playing SF? are you totally insane? Thats like saying Ellis playing SF. We know he won't be good there. Just look at Pietrus.

[old rem]

They're both FA's. If you really want Buike, offer him a starting salary of about $4 million and I doubt GS matches. You could maybe go as low as $3 million and they might not match.

I think the Warriors would match at higher $ than you think. Pietrus + Barnes are probably gone. Wright = Belinneli were DNP....so who's left besides the starters? Azubuike.

Take away Azu and the others and WTF? We end up paying for has beens and never-gonna-bes ....are all those guys getting minimum?

[old rem]

^ wow playing SF? are you totally insane? Thats like saying Ellis playing SF. We know he won't be good there. Just look at Pietrus.

He has played a lot of SF and done rather well for having just over 1 NBA season behind him.

And yes...I am totally insane. Ask anyone.

[WarFan]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think the Warriors would match at higher $ than you think. Pietrus + Barnes are probably gone. Wright = Belinneli were DNP....so who's left besides the starters? Azubuike.

Take away Azu and the others and WTF? We end up paying for has beens and never-gonna-bes ....are all those guys getting minimum?

I agree that it would be nice to keep Azu, but unless they save the money on Ellis & Biedrins or cut salary some other way, they're going to be right up on the Tax Line and everything points to that being the hard cap for Cohan.

[Left*My*Heart]

Unless something happens to relieve some cap dollars, I don't think the Warriors match Buike at much more than 3 mil. If they can retain their FAs cheaply they will probably do it. IMO the Warriors are better served paying Buike 3 mil than Pietrus.

[calderon13]

Azubuike is still developing but then Nachbar is also developing. too old for development but he has potential to be a good backup SF.

[turk3d]

Nachbar is good. Bukie is good. Nachbar is older and probably more expensive. Add to that Bukie's position is more of a need we have and Nachbar's is not. We'd be better off just keeping Bukie (who will be cheaper) and probably is the biggest reason that we might not keep him. We just may not have the money to pay him once we pay Monta and Biedrens and Baron decides to exercises his option which we are all pretty certain he will. If we can't afford Bukie, then we certainly can't afford Bostjan.

[Subaculta]

Bosjtan Nachbar for Kelenna Azubuike

Is it a fair deal? Why or Why not?

Why not, is because - as long as Nellie coaches the team - tough guards that play bigger then their position are a premium asset.

[Sleepy51]

Psst . . . Bukie isn't a guard.

He's an undersized SF who rebounds well and can hit from outside. He does not do "guard stuff." No passing, no handle, no creating for himself or others. He's a forward, and it's just fine that he is one. The fact that he's short for a SF really isn't a problem. The problem is when we play him as a 6'6 PF or we play him at SF next to a Jack or Pete as miniature PF's and our frontline averages a little over 6'7".

But he's not a guard.

[Sid the Squid]

Azubuike is not a gaurd...Why the majority here thinks he is? I can't explain it

This can be a strange place

[MightyReds2020]

Buike IS a guard. I view positioning a little differently than some here - I based it mostly on the defensive end and Buike has guarded plenty of SGs.

Offensively, yes he lacks good handle and the passing ability, so he's pretty much limited in a Trenton Hassel way, but Hassel is/was a guard, so is Raja Bell. Just pair him with a 3 with good ball-handling skills and his limitations will become less of a concern. And he is still young and has room to grow, sort of like JRich.

[Sleepy51]

You definitely define positions "differently," so differently in fact that it becomes a we bit on the silly side of convenient. Jack defended David West and Tim Duncan. Are you seriously calling Jack a PF?
Defensive assignments are much more fluid for wing players and always have been. And you can't really determine people's positions by where Nellie plays them because he is insane. I'm talking about what position Bukie is sutied to play in this league. That position is SF.

I haven't watched Hassell play closely enough in NJ to comment, but when Minnesota was relevant, I clearly remember him being described as a Small Forward. NBA.com still lists him as a Forward.

Raja Bell is a guard. He is not a "creator" but he is an intelligent floorgame player, and NOT a ball stopper. He can pass. He may not be an "assist man," but he moves the ball well, and plays the floor game as a guard. He defends who-ever needs defending because he has big balls.

Jrich is more of a tweener than he is a guard. Based on his skillset he would play way more SF for a good team. I love Jrich, but he has some critical dents in his guard game.

You may be making the distinction based on defensive assignments, but a lot of players defend multiple positions over the course of the same game. But it's their offensive roles that determine who you can put them on the floor with and what they can do for you. That's where positions are determined. You can always find SOMEONE for a player to guard, but you can't pound square pegs into round holes on the offensive end.

[MightyReds2020]

sleepy, i think you misunderstood my point a little bit. i was saying based on the most natural assumptions, you would want Buike to guard opposing SGs given his size, which is too short for a SF. hassell and bell guarded SGs most of the time. sure they switched over to guard SFs from time to time, but given their relatively lack of height SG is their position.

offensively, i don't think we should pigeonhole a player as a SG, or a SF, or a PF, etc, especially in Nellie-ball. you would want a ball-handler (usually PG), a wing or two who do complementary things (defending, shooting, running the floor, rebouding), a post presence (offensively and defensively), plus one other guy who can make up the deficiency in other positions combined.

take a look at the jazz, they have williams handling the rock, they have a post presence on both end (Boozer in attack; Okur on D), they have 2 wings who defends and runs the floor and rebounds, but because they couldn't shoot to save their life they have their 5th starter - Okur, playing the shooting role.

based on the basketball definitions, on offense i guess boozer is their C, AK is their PF, Brewer is SF, Okur is SG, Williams stays at 1, but obviously Okur isn't a SG.

[GSWhoopfan]

if Bookie wants to go...let him go. Why do we need Nachbar.

We should target ourselves on Sasha Vujacic (an excellent shooter) or Carlos Delfino (both would be more expensive than Bookie).

With Wright expected to play more and im calling out the Matt Barnes getting re-signed, we should be alright without Bookie.

But id prefer that Bookie stays over Pietrus, but i would like both to stay. Depth is a major quality in our teams success.

I dont think theres a market for Bookie though. He indeed is a solid and smart player. Big plus for him...doesnt play out of control, very efficient.

[Sleepy51]

Never mind assumptions, based on what I've seen him do, I want Bukie guarding longer players who might want to set up shop closer to the paint. Chasing guys with lateral quickness around the perimeter is not his forte. He's better when he's being leaned on (just not by a 6'11 260lb type.) I like Bukie guarding small forwards.

:eye roll: @ the Utah/Okur comparison.

When Okur steps out to spot up for 3, is he being asked to initiate or facilitate offense? or create for himself or others? or set things in motion in any way? No. He's spotting up out there as a finisher. He is not doing guard duties just because he's shooting. Centers and PF's with the 3ball specialty have unique rolls. That's not relevant to weather you can play an unskilled guy as a guard.

We're talking about wings here, and offesnively, you can not regularly play a guy at a guard position and win if he doesn't have SOME guard skills. Bukie has a jumpshot, but in today's NBA there are players at every position wth a jump shot. To play a guard spot for a good team, you have to be good at moving the ball, or moving with the ball. The guard game is about creating movement and destabilizing the defense (despite what Baron and Jack got away with when they were resting on the floor for 15mpg.) Guards have to facilitate offense and being able to think, react and execute on the move and in rythm are core requirements for that. If you are a guy who has to play station to station, and reset/survey and collect your bearings frequently, you can't help a good NBA team at a guard spot. Bukie doesn't have those facilitating skills.

Even for Nellieball, the guards have to be able to do guard stuff. When we took the guys with guard tools off the floor and Bukie or Pete had to slide up the depth chart to a guard spot, we were quite bad . . . which is why 3 guys (two of whom had a plethora of injuries) had to play just about every minute of every game.

This isn't about bashing Bukie. Dude is a solid backup SF. He finishes strong. He hits the glass. He can get hot from outside. And he can muscle up taleer guys. He's nobody's bitch in the paint. He's a flexible and useful SF. I don't care if he's short. Good small forwards have been short before. But you can't play a 6'6 SF next to a 6'7" PF and a 6'9" center. That s don't fly.

[MightyReds2020]

well, obviously okur is a poor example, but i stand by my point that you don't want to pigeonhole a player's position based on what he can/can't do on offense.

i know you're not bashing bukie, you don't have agendas like some others do here. and you are mostly right about his current ability. what i disagreed with is how he can be used in the future, and i think he has the ability to step in and perform as well at the guard spot compared to SF. the reason i brought up JRich's name is because he had the most similar skillset to Buike in his early days and he's developed into a legitimate 2-guard. he won't hurt the team with his ball-handling and passing anymore, as a second- or third-option, and i think Buike can become a player like that in the very near future.

[Mylie10]

Buki is best suited as a SF. He rebounds well in traffic and his defense is better suited against guys trying to post him. his foot speed is a little lacking for guard defense, so guarding bigger players is better for him where he doesn't have to chase quite as much.

He also has the ability to rise up against bigger players and get a hand in there face.

But most of the guards that handle give him trouble. They tend to blow by him.

He's definitely a matchup guy. But SF is the better spot.