Will we pick any players that we work out?

Mylie10 · Post #1 » by **Mylie10** » Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:36 pm

Not in the first round.

Nellie will blow plenty of smoke, but once the coast is clear, we'll select someone that hasn't been worked out by us.

but as for our second rounder, I'd bet we get a good look at him.

i really hope we get one more pick somehow. Even Nellie said the draft was deeper than last year for big guys.

One more pick would allow us to take a chance on someone and still bring in guys who will help potentially this year.

Next question; Is Nellie telling the truth about going in a youth direction more than he has thus far?

I believe he'll have no choice but to use Wright and Belli based on the remaining dollars. Whether or not our draft picks from this year get to play is another story.

CDR, Rush, Dorsey, Arthur, Ryan Anderson, are some cats who if we picked them would contribute or be in a rotation.

Some of the other young flying bigs would have to wait.

Even we get into the Love sweepstakes, then of course he'd play right away.

Abyss Impact · Post #2 » by **Abyss Impact** » Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:48 pm

Nah, Nelly won't play them anyways. He will continue to play Baron/Jackson/Monta 35+ minutes so he can get that 53 win so he can finally be the most winning coach in the NBA and then will retire.

WarFan · Post #3 » by **WarFan** » Wed Jun 4, 2008 11:59 pm

I believe that Nellie is serious about next year being a building year and playing the youth. I don't think it was really his decision either, although he probably agrees with it otherwise I'd expect him to leave. The fact that he's even talking about sticking around beyond this year is another sign that he's serious. Also, I think they told Baron the same thing when they talked about an extension a few weeks ago.

Mylie10 · Post #4 » by **Mylie10** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 12:48 am

he's serious about 10.2 million dollars, that's what he's serious about.

He has to play Wright and Bellie because we have no money for other signings. After we take care of Montdris

Left*My*Heart · Post #5 » by **Left*My*Heart** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 2:44 am

The playoffs were being pushed by the FO this past season. I don't think that is the case this coming season. I'm sure the FO would love to see the playoffs this coming season, but I think reality has sit in and that barring a major trade, this team is headed back to the lottery. This is a season in flux and the pressure is off of Nellie to win at the cost of developing the rookies. I firmly believe Nellie was concerned about the stress of making the playoffs last season and why he wanted the money he demanded. He is coming back this season to coach and made that decision quickly because that major stressor has been removed...win at all costs.

Chris Cohan · Post #6 » by **Chris Cohan** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:31 am

Baron will play 82 again and will have better numbers with lower minutes. Guaranteed All Star, probable MVP, and donates $15 million to charity.

Jackson will be defensive player of the year and will hit 3 pointers at 45% with 5 boards, 5 assists, no arrests or technical foul outs or suspensions of any kind.

Monta Ellis will break his face and sit on the bench all year.

Andris Biedrins will play for Philadelphia - who needs him?

Brandan Wright will be in Detroit being beaten up by Doc Rivers for costing him a 33 year old psychopath with one of the most deteriorated games in the league.

Marco Belinelli - stone cold lock for ROY.

Book it.

Joe Alexander will beat up Mike Dunleavy, Jr. at some point and run faster than him after a bench press contest.

Subaculta · Post #7 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 6:37 am

ROWELL wrote:Baron will play 82 again and will have better numbers with lower minutes. Guaranteed All Star, probable MVP, and donates $15 million to charity.

Jackson will be defensive player of the year and will hit 3 pointers at 45% with 5 boards, 5 assists, no arrests or technical foul outs or suspensions of any kind.

Monta Ellis will break his face and sit on the bench all year.

Andris Biedrins will play for Philadelphia - who needs him?

Brandan Wright will be in Detroit being beaten up by Doc Rivers for costing him a 33 year old psychopath with one of the most deteriorated games in the league.

Marco Belinelli - stone cold lock for ROY.

Book it.

Joe Alexander will beat up Mike Dunleavy, Jr. at some point and run faster than him after a bench press contest.

...psht

Belinelli can't be ROY... he could win CPOY! :clap:

Twinkie defense · Post #8 » by **Twinkie defense** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 6:48 am

"We need to get younger, bring these guys along, but keep competing," Nelson said. "We want to have our cake and eat it, too."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warrior ... ck_check=1

Mylie that's an intriguing question, #1.

What have the Warriors done in the past, with Nellie, about 1st round picks? Have they worked them out? I think a number of picks were not worked out. Beli was scouted overseas. I don't think Wright came around. Back in the day, I don't think Sprewell made the trip.

Subaculta · Post #9 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 6:54 am

Twinkie defense wrote:"We need to get younger, bring these guys along, but keep competing," Nelson said. "We want to have our cake and eat it, too."

http://www.contracostatimes.com/warrior ... ck_check=1

Mylie that's an intriguing question, #1.

What have the Warriors done in the past, with Nellie, about 1st round picks? Have they worked them out? I think a number of picks were not worked out. Beli was scouted overseas. I don't think Wright came around. Back in the day, I don't think Sprewell made the trip.

We really do live in a different era... maybe 20-30 years ago you needed to extensively scout/workout a player before committing to him, but in our day and age (with the internet, video, advanced scouting, following players from middle school) I'd think taking a player without actually working him out isn't a stretch.

old rem · Post #10 » by **old rem** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 8:12 am

WarFan wrote:I believe that Nellie is serious about next year being a building year and playing the youth. I don't think it was really his decision either, although he probably agrees with it otherwise I'd expect him to leave. The fact that he's even talking about sticking around beyond this year is another sign that he's serious. Also, I think they told Baron the same thing when they talked about an extension a few weeks ago.

Nellie had to see that we needed more down the stretch and had we got the young guns up to speed by March..our main guys would have had a bit more energy. I'd thought all along we needed to use the whole roster. Hopefully-Nellie's not saying this-then lapsing back into old habits.

old rem · Post #11 » by **old rem** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 8:30 am

Subaculta wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

We really do live in a different era... maybe 20-30 years ago you needed to extensively scout/workout a player before committing to him, but in our day and age (with the internet, video, advanced scouting, following players from middle school) I'd think taking a player without actually working him out isn't a stretch.

True..the technology has helped...but.....

Years past most of rd 1 was seniors + juniors and this year it's mainly freshmen and Sophs. Rose is touted as a superstar PG....wasn't top 50 in assist or top 100 scoring. Bayless and Mayo didn't average 5 assist...were not even very close. DeAndre Jordan had weaker numbers than some bigs who may not get drafted. These guys had 1 college season so you need to get inside their heads,get personal,see that they have the stuff to go beyond where they are.

10 years ago....he main guys were players who'd been college stars 2-3 years. You could get a real sense of HOW they approached the game,how they fit into a team,rather than just highlight clips. You see some pattern and process.

Rd 2 guys,you want to find the guy who SHOULD be a rd 1. A lot of rd 2's had the numbers,didn't have the exposure or don't have the "ideal" physical tools. A lot of them can play.

Post #12 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 1:44 pm

Rem,
Has the success profile changed at all in the last few years? Rd 2 picks have historically not amounted to much at all. Maybe 1 hidden gem starter, and 3 rotation players per year from the 2nd round.

Has that changed at all with the change in college career tenures? Is there any evidence that the Jr's and Sr's in Rd 2 are worth any more than they always have been?

Subaculta · Post #13 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:46 pm

[quote="old rem"][/quote]

Sure it helps to meet with the players and see what they're all about... but the Warriors did not take an up close look at Brandan Wright - and he was a freshman that didn't rank among statistical leaders in the NCAA.

Post #14 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:50 pm

^ Which could have something to do with why Nellie took little or no particular interest in him for the better part of a year.

Subaculta · Post #15 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 3:57 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:^ Which could have something to do with why Nellie took little or no particular interest in him for the better part of a year.

could be, but isn't the consensus that Marco was a "Nelli pick"? He didn't scout him in Italy, proclaimed him to be a potential starter, and then didn't play him much either.

My point mainly being that in this age and time, working out or not working out a player doesn't mean as much as it did 20 years ago.

Post #16 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:16 pm

I don't quite see how the head coach being completely wrong on the readiness of a "need pick" and very likely being wrong on the readiness of the other pick could be slightly indicative of a drafting/scouting system with some gaps in it.

I don't see how Nellie's cavalier obliviousness about his draft picks supports your position. I'm not quite catching your drift here.

Post #17 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:33 pm

Hey, and maybe "meeting" Webber and having a quick chat about playing center before trading away a decade of the franchise to pick him might have been a good idea, no?

There's no such thing as too much information. Some of the most difficult and unsuccessful people I've ever worked with are the ones who refuse to be talked out of an idea once they've invested themselves in it.

I don't know squat about what really goes on behind closed doors in our draft process and I know part of the workout game is misdirection and trying to lead other teams on a goose chase, but I think the evidence of how this past year's draft picks were handled, in particular both the dissapointing surprises about Belly and Lasme's use and impact as per Nellie's own statements shows that we are not sufferring from "too much draft Data" in the GSW front office.

Subaculta · Post #18 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 4:40 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:I don't quite see how the head coach being completely wrong on the readiness of a "need pick" and very likely being wrong on the readiness of the other pick could be slightly indicative of a drafting/scouting system with some gaps in it.

I don't see how Nellie's cavalier obliviousness about his draft picks supports your position. I'm not quite catching your drift here.

my point is nothing more then this -

in our day and age "inviting" a player in for a workout - or not - doesn't mean what it did 20 years ago...

nothing more nothing less. I think you're reading too much into what I wrote. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with whether thats a smart practice or not. Personally I would think that meeting the player and doing as much homework as possible would be the way to go, but with "smokescreens" and all of that, it seems like more and more teams are throwing curveballs on draft day.

Post #19 » by **Sleepy51** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 5:09 pm

Hmm . . . ok, just to clarify, 30 years ago was 1978. That's not totally the dark ages. Granted, 30 years ago fans had basically zero access to footage of players they want their teams to draft, but coaches have been viewing and exchanging 8mm and then VHS (and for a while, Betamax) reels on prospects for a long time. The interwebs, youtube and draft sites make the data more accessible for fans (and allows players to start the marketing engine earlier) but coaches and professional sports orgs have been able to get thier mitts on footage of prospects for most of that 30 years you are talking about.

The challenge wasn't about getting tape. The challenge was about gettig tape of kids playing againt NBA bound peers to establish context for the footage. All the tape in the world of Ibaka duncking on 12 year old girls doesn't answer the important questions. The workouts were/are about answering the questions that footage of couldn't answer.

I would still say that despite the ease of emailing mpegs vs. snail-mailing 8mm reels, if you haven't seen a player in context against NBA bound peers (i.e. Marco and Lasme) then getting them in for a (or snooping from data from another team's) workout is as valuable as it always was.

Subaculta · Post #20 » by **Subaculta** » Thu Jun 5, 2008 7:25 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:Hmm . . . ok, just to clarify, 30 years ago was 1978. That's not totally the dark ages. Granted, 30 years ago fans had basically zero access to footage of players they want their teams to draft, but coaches have been viewing and exchanging 8mm and then VHS (and for a while, Betamax) reels on prospects for a long time. The interwebs, youtube and draft sites make the data more accessible for fans (and allows players to start the marketing engine earlier) but coaches and professional sports orgs have been able to get thier mitts on footage of prospects for most of that 30 years you are talking about.

The challenge wasn't about getting tape. The challenge was about gettig tape of kids playing againt NBA bound peers to establish context for the footage. All the tape in the world of Ibaka duncking on 12 year old girls doesn't answer the important questions. The workouts were/are about answering the questions that footage of couldn't answer.

I would still say that despite the ease of emailing mpegs vs. snail-mailing 8mm reels, if you haven't seen a player in context against NBA bound peers (i.e. Marco and Lasme) then getting them in for a (or snooping from data from another team's) workout is as valuable as it always was.

we're splitting hairs now... like I mentioned before, I agree with you that having the player in for a workout is the best way to go, but at this point in time you could draft a player without ever having met him and know more about his ability/persona then 10, 20 or 30 years ago.