Baron/Harrington for Billups/Sheed

[gswhoops]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... for_baron/

Thoughts? I'm down.

[St.Nick]

Pass from me.

I dont see Billups as an improvement over Baron. I think he is a inferior scorer, an inferior passer, an inferior rebounder, and is about on par in terms of shooting (although with a higher 3pt percentage).

He is also nearly 32 years old and due $36M over the next three years, which makes him overpaid, which Joe Dumars is smart enough to realize.

If they really want Baron and Baron decides to pull a powerplay in order to get his extension with Detroit then we dont have to settle for Chauncey Billups. I think we should demand Rasheed (and his expiring deal), Maxiell or Amir Johnson, AND their pick.

We have all the leverage in any Baron deal. We dont need to settle for worse players in worse contracts.

[Warriorfan]

The deal brings better defense and championship experience to the youngest team next to Portland. The Warriors can continue to compete as Wright and Monta develop. Plus Billups will still be worth his contract the next two years and could be packaged on his last year.

[St.Nick]

If Billups was really better than Baron then the Great Joe Dumars wouldnt be making this offer. But Dumars knows that Baron is a superior player (and better for rebuilding a team due to his relatively young age '29').

Billups and Sheed would likely make us a 7th seed, more or less, next season. Likely we would drop out of the playoffs after the first or maximum second round. On the other side with S-Jax for the whole year, the further development of Monta/Andris/Brandan, the addition of a lotto pick, and Baron in a contract push season I dont see why we could get that 7th seed anyways, but without adding a PG that we will watch age over the next three years while paying him a very large amount of money.

We need to keep Baron so we can reap the benefits of his expiring deal. Its the best thing for the future of this franchise. Lateral moves for players in worse contracts does not make a ton of sense to me.

And btw, I will bet anyone 1 million RealGM bucks that this deal does not go down.

[Yi Jian Lian]

If Billups was really better than Baron then the Great Joe Dumars wouldnt be making this offer. But Dumars knows that Baron is a superior player (and better for rebuilding a team due to his relatively young age '29').

Billups and Sheed would likely make us a 7th seed, more or less, next season. Likely we would drop out of the playoffs after the first or maximum second round. On the other side with S-Jax for the whole year, the further development of Monta/Andris/Brandan, the addition of a lotto pick, and Baron in a contract push season I dont see why we could get that 7th seed anyways, but without adding a PG that we will watch age over the next three years while paying him a very large amount of money.

We need to keep Baron so we can reap the benefits of his expiring deal. Its the best thing for the future of this franchise. Lateral moves for players in worse contracts does not make a ton of sense to me.

And btw, I will bet anyone 1 million RealGM bucks that this deal does not go down.

i agree

[Eleutherios]

pass

[AdonalFoyle4Prez]

As much as I love 'Sheed, I don't want a potty-mouth grandpa on the squad. Throw in Tayshaun Prince (and we'll add either another player [Mikael Pietrus?] or give up future 2009 1st round) and you got yourself a deal

[Abyss Impact]

You guys are stupid. This trade is perfect for us. Baron Davis is injury prone, and will be injured for half the season while Billups won't be.

[cdubbz]

You guys are stupid. This trade is perfect for us. Baron Davis is injury prone, and will be injured for half the season while Billups won't be.

Barons expiring contract will help us in the future. Keeping billups isnt that good

[GSWhoopfan]

i dont like giving up Baron because he can DOMINATE games. he can take over games like its a video game. Sheed can dominate as well. Billups is pretty good, but he is a product of the Pistons defense first system.

trading small for big is what GMs look for though.

[turk3d]

Feel the need! Feel the Sheed!

[bballguy50]

At first glance, this trade seemed great for us.

If Sheed was younger, I would be all over this one. He would be so perfect for us (less his 'tude), its scary. But he'll be 34 this year, and the few years he might have left of decent production (assuming we would even resign him) aren't enough to make this worth it.

'08-'09 FA market has too much potential for us to skip by giving away Baron's situation.

[kevin44]

This is a bad idea. Wallace is a pain and Baron is much better than Billups. I would rather trade Baron for Marion and then try to move Al for a PG. This team needs to make a few big moves if they want to compete in the west. My biggest fear is we keep basically the same team from last year.

[Sleepy51]

I can't read the Lepper article because my wiretap has been effed up since the "upgrade"

But based on what I'm gathering from you guys, this deal is blowing my mind. I haven't totally decided what to think of it yet, but it makes me think a lot. From a Warrior perspective, this deal wouldn't be about upgrading talent, it would be about upgrading intangibles. For all the big shots Baron has hit here, and the 4th quarters that he's dominated at times, he is not a perfect leader by any stretch of the imagination. Baron's reactions to adversity have always been of concern, going back to his first full season here (and before.) Billups compsure and leadership address those concerns. Billups isn't going to respond to a scoring drought by chucking, and Billups isn't going to lethis play rise and fall with his emotions so much. I completely enjoy watching Baron play, his lifestyle off the court doesn't bother me in the least, and I would definitely take Baron in a 1 on 1 game against Billups, but . . . lower highs, higher lows, and a steady hand on the tiller is what Billups would bring. Consistency. Reliability. Professionalism. These things have a great deal of value in a team setting, even if his game will decline over the contract.

Sheed likewise addresses the intangible problems in our frontcourt. All our bigs are "nice guys." They are all unselfish, they are all easy going, and they are all somewhat passive (exception to Brandan who is too young to judge.) Sheed brings aggression to our frontcourt. He's a dominant presence even if his numbers don't always rock the stat sheet. When I read guys here claiming Sheed is only worth his boxscore, I know they didn't watch detroit this year. The guy is a game changer more nights than not. He's a big that your offense can run through who demands help defense attention. He is a guy who helps the offense gain the advantage by making the defense react and rotate rather than just camping in front of guys and cutting down passing lanes.

I would miss Baron, I would miss Al. I would miss the excitement and possibilities of a lotto pick (though the liklihood of a 14 pick making a significant impact is minor.) Dre would likey never get the added touches that I think would make him a special player in time. Brandan would be pencilled in as a tweener for another year rather than getting to play where he is destined to belong when he grows into his body at the 4 (but it's just one year.) There are reasons to not like it.

On the other hand, this deal gives us the ability to start playing inside-out more often. It makes Monta the center of our offensive universe, but with more time to grow into a full time PG. (I would see Billups becomming the combo guard as his age slows his penetration skills. He was a combo when he entered the league.) I am leaning toward the deal because I highly value winning experience and discipline. Billups brings both, Sheed brings winning experience.

Adding Maxiell would make it a no-brainer.

[Left*My*Heart]

Detroit wants to shake things up. The Pistons don't always play hungry and this trade makes a lot of sense. Baron is a 17.8, while Wallace is a 13.9 million dollar expiring. It is unlikely that either player would remain with their current team.

What Piston fans are missing is the negative to GS...the length of Billups contract, 4 years and 50 mil, though the 4 year is a team option. The Warriors are adding cap, while the Pistons are reducing their payroll and getting younger too.

[turk3d]

+ 1 Sleepy, it's been a while bro, we seem to have been on the opposite side of the fence lately.

BTW, we need Maxiel in the deal as it wouldn't work without him. Chauncey is BYC which means that only half his salary will count in the trade. Maxiel puts it over the top. See trade checker http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4680274

All you guys clamoring for dumping Baron not too long ago, where are you at now? You all should be jumping for joy. What better replacement would there be out there available who's better than Billups (Chauncey too old?, Heck some of you were begging for Kidd, lol)?

[Abyss Impact]

I'd make the trade, better than having Baron's injury prone last year of his contract.

[Left*My*Heart]

I would make this trade, Baron/Al for Billups/Wallace/Maxiell. I would not add our first round pick either. It is cap savings for the Pistons and they can move in a different direction much easier after this trade. I love Billups, but paying him for 3 more years, with a 4th year as an option isn't an easily moveable asset, like Al is.

[GSWhoopfan]

Barons intangible is huge for me...hes got heart and is sincere. I normally can read when a person is bullshitting, but Baron isnt. He really want to bring winning ways to Oakland.

The Golden State and Baron attachment comes from the chip on the shoulder, "back against the wall and were still here" mentality that we have in common. There arent too many people that "like" Baron or want to see his achieve. Hes a true underdog.

[old rem]

Pass from me.

I dont see Billups as an improvement over Baron. I think he is a inferior scorer, an inferior passer, an inferior rebounder, and is about on par in terms of shooting (although with a higher 3pt percentage).

He is also nearly 32 years old and due $36M over the next three years, which makes him overpaid, which Joe Dumars is smart enough to realize.

If they really want Baron and Baron decides to pull a powerplay in order to get his extension with Detroit then we dont have to settle for Chauncey Billups. I think we should demand Rasheed (and his expiring deal), Maxiell or Amir Johnson, AND their pick.

We have all the leverage in any Baron deal. We dont need to settle for worse players in worse contracts.

Right. There is no special plus in getting high $ veterans who are going into their twilight when we are getting little "incentive" to shorten our window of opportunity. IMHO...Sheed at this point is already starting to decline...and was already somewhat overrated and a player who's moods led to inconsistant performance and at times,a headache to coach. Billups is fine,but Baron is a "Push The Tempo" PG,Billups is not. While Sheed can still run,he usually does not. If you figure Pietrus + Barnes are gone,and they were runners,we still have a Run-First coach and less runners. We also are still a 3 shooting team and waved bye to our most high% 3 shooters,with Sheed,like Jax,more of a volume shooter,streak shooter from 3. Rebounds? Sheed does board more than Al...but even there...the trend was Sheed was rebounding a bit less,and Al had improved his RBD's a bit. Contract? Sheed has 1 year and then what? Sheed,I think,is going to think he's still a 10 mill + guy....until he's 38-39...yet meanwhile he'd tended to just coast some possessions and I'd think as age catches up-that's more apt to happen. Al is ours 2 years. Then he's still viable if we want him for 4 more at a mild pay cut...or if he's just not needed--let him walk or use him as a trade-expiring,or whatever. Al's less apt to bitch or pout if he's not getting his way.

On Trade board deal has us give #14 to do the deal. Hell no. Us getting Maxiel + late Piston pick is a positive swing..yet I'm still not quite sold.