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He WILL struggle. Spot PG minutes and being the man and taking over that spot are two different monsters. But what I don't want is for the Monta-haters to take any sort of struggle next year as proof that they were right. It won't be.

FACT: In order to be the best you truly can be, you have to step out of your comfort zone, and you have to make mistakes.

One step back, two steps forward. The benefits will be reaped later.

I hope we get #1 pick in lottery.

I'll take growing pains over chucking pain...

It will be exactly like this year... every Baron TO glossed over, but Monta bad passes will be highlighted by the same few doofs as last year...

Personally, I think he'll show he's worlds ahead of what most people believe... including the people on this board.. but his overall effectiveness will depend on who we surround him with. Right now we only have 1/2 of a good range shooter (Al).. James Jones, where art thou?

I just hope he worked on his defense this Summer. If he could be even an average defender, he would be a big positive out there due to his offensive efficiency.

I just hope we sign him.

510Reggae wrote:I'll take growing pains over chucking pain...

It will be exactly like this year... every Baron TO glossed over, but Monta bad passes will be highlighted by the same few doofs as last year...

Personally, I think he'll show he's worlds ahead of what most people believe... including the people on this board.. but his overall effectiveness will depend on who we surround him with. Right now we only have 1/2 of a good range shooter (Al).. James Jones, where art thou?

GS may not have a great shooter, but they have enough good ones that it really isn't a problem unless they add a SG/SF who has no 3-point range at all.

The bigger concern is having wing player(s) who can help with the ballhandling. If Jackson is the best ballhandling wing, with the rest of the spots filled by Bukie, Barnes and MP (or equivalent players) then Monta won't look that good. This hasn't been an issue as GS has played with 2 pg's so much the last two years but that's likely to change.

Adding Iggy is the best (though highly unlikely) fit. If GS adds a post (Smith) than trading Al for Jaric + Lowery or Critt

I agree Monta wont look good next to those scrubs you listed, but thats no reason to commit ourselves longterm to someone who may or may not even be necessary. The way everyone in here is thinking is the way we got into cap problems in the first place... Monta has earned the right to go out there as the #1 option without having to ink longterm guys like Iguodala for help. Letsee what he can do, how he reacts, and THEN let's find a piece that complements him. W/exception of Deron in UTA, each 'elite' PG right now was given the reins with a much worse team, and then the holes were plugged around them... they didnt just throw the PG in there and hope for the best.

Paul was given the keys early, and then players like Peja/Mo Pete were added. The Hornets found that they needed deadly perimeter shooters to open up the inside enough for Paul to dominate. Result: #2 seed.

All of this knee jerk reaction garbage wouldnt be as frustrating if we literally didnt just watch the Hornets rebuild in nearly the exact same fashion... they too got 'nothing' for Baron... did they go out and wildly overspend first chance they got?

Wanting a quality ballhandler on the wing isn't really a Monta specific need, it's a general NBA need. Unless you have a great ball-dominating, creative pg (Paul, a prime Kidd, very few others) teams work much better on offense when more players than just the pg have a good handle.

Throwing $60-70M over 5 years to Iggy isn't a panic move, he's a solid player and fills a need (it's likely a pointless move as Philly almost certainly matches, but it's not a panc move). The way the Warriors contracts are set up if they don't use the cap room now it won't be available again until 2010. If a good player/good fit is available now GS should aggressively go after them.

If a good player/good fit isn't available, then GS does need to avoid the stupid panic moves that are much worse than rebuilding with a 30-35 win team next year. Throwing $60-70M over 5 years to Maggette because he's the only UFA not accounted for is a panic move. Throwing $100M at Arenas is a panic move as well. Trading for Zach Randolf (as Tim K suggested, even with GS giving up a pick) is beyond panic and into wild despiration.

giberish wrote:Throwing $60-70M over 5 years to Iggy isn't a panic move, he's a solid player and fills a need (it's likely a pointless move as Philly almost certainly matches, but it's not a panc move). The way the Warriors contracts are set up if they don't use the cap room now it won't be available again until 2010. If a good player/good fit is available now GS should aggressively go after them.

Actually, the W's, even w/a resigned Dre and Tay, will look just as good. In 09 so far, we have:

Al: 10.02
Jack: 7.65
Wright: 2.67
Belinelli: 1.54
Randolph: 1.51
Hendrix: 500k (roughly)
Say AB and Monta get around 10m each in the 2nd years of their deals... (5-55 was the basis)

We're still a near 15m under the cap*.. that's also if Hendrix makes the team, if Belinelli/Al/Jack are still here... but also if we don't make any other multiyear signings. Trading Al + Belinelli could get us about 30-35m under the projected cap - enough to make 2 max offers, depending on where our 1st round pick wound up.

All I'm saying is we should be patient and wait for a better opportunity... Iguodala is a (good) Baronesque SG, and we need more of a Ray Allen shooter type. I'm willing to wait for that kind of player rather than force our hand... it took us 3 years to get this space.

*-used the 07-08 season cap

They said I couldn't play point guard...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mv9PyvboPM

If we do end up getting Brand, Monta will be our starting point guard next season. Having a dominant low post presence will be the perfect addition to ease his transition. Book it.

Also; I completely agree with reg that we should be patient and wait for a better opportunity rather than go into panic mode throwing huge contracts at a sub-par free agent class.

This is the perfect chance to let our youth develop, pick up some nice draft picks, and be major players in the star-studded 2010 free agent class.

510Reggae wrote:

giberish wrote:Throwing $60-70M over 5 years to Iggy isn't a panic move, he's a solid player and fills a need (it's likely a pointless move as Philly almost certainly matches, but it's not a panc move). The way the Warriors contracts are set up if they don't use the cap room now it won't be available again until 2010. If a good player/good fit is available now GS should aggressively go after them.

Actually, the W's, even w/a resigned Dre and Tay, will look just as good. In 09 so far, we have:

Al: 10.02
Jack: 7.65
Wright: 2.67
Belinelli: 1.54
Randolph: 1.51
Hendrix: 500k (roughly)
Say AB and Monta get around 10m each in the 2nd years of their deals... (5-55 was the basis)

We're still a near 15m under the cap*.. that's also if Hendrix makes the team, if Belinelli/Al/Jack are still here... but also if we don't make any other multiyear signings. Trading Al + Belinelli could get us about 30-35m under the projected cap - enough to make 2 max offers, depending on where our 1st round pick wound up.

All I'm saying is we should be patient and wait for a better opportunity... Iguodala is a (good) Baronesque SG, and we need more of a Ray Allen shooter type. I'm willing to wait for that kind of player rather than force our hand... it took us 3 years to get this space.

*-used the 07-08 season cap

GS's going to need some other players to round out the roster this year, and it's tough to get decent guys to play for 1 year deals that could easily mess up your calculations.

I also don't see the need for a shooter. Someone who's more of a Manu Ginobli that can make 3's but drives inside as much or more would work at least as well at SG.

If we do horribly, Demar Derozan is the real **** deal at the two. I have a feeling we won't quite do horribly enough, though.

Ellis
Derozan
Randolph
Wright
Biendrins

I'm not sure about Wright at PF, Hendrix might fit better, believe it or not. One can dream...

I can't WAIT for the Monta Ellis growing pains!
I've got my tickets. Bandwagoners, bought yours yet?

ROWELL wrote:I can't WAIT for the Monta Ellis growing pains!
I've got my tickets. Bandwagoners, bought yours yet?

I can't wait for all the bandwagoners to be gone so I can buy tickets for cheap again on the Stub Hub and the eBay...

The preemptive excuse, I love it

Hahaha... it's funny to see you guys backtrack so fast to cover your asses, now that what you've been begging for is coming close to reality.

Monta will be a great player for the Warriors, but I still think seeing him handle the point full time will make us want to move him back over to the two and draft a big, pass-first floor general.

PS when does thinking someone is a great, scoring combo guard "hating?"

it's time for brandan wright to emerge as chris bosh

the whole season is going to be rough. last season, the Warriors had a chance to win every game. its not just monta thats gonna be going through some ****. Wright will, Randolph (if he plays). The whole lineup. This lineup isnt built to win. This lineup is built to be broken up. These cats will all be tight, then Cohen will have to sign Wright, then Randolph to big money and then were back to the rebuilding drawing board. We are once again a farm team.

Losing is going to take a toll on these young players. This team will not win for a while.

Fanbase loyalty will be put through, once again, another horrific test.

GSWhoopfan wrote:the whole season is going to be rough. last season, the Warriors had a chance to win every game. its not just monta thats gonna be going through some ****. Wright will, Randolph (if he plays). The whole lineup. This lineup isnt built to win. This lineup is built to be broken up. These cats will all be tight, then Cohen will have to sign Wright, then Randolph to big money and then were back to the rebuilding drawing board. We are once again a farm team.

Losing is going to take a toll on these young players. This team will not win for a while.

Fanbase loyalty will be put through, once again, another horrific test.

Did you help write the old testament?

Twinkie defense wrote:The preemptive excuse, I love it

Hahaha... it's funny to see you guys backtrack so fast to cover your asses, now that what you've been begging for is coming close to reality.

Monta will be a great player for the Warriors, but I still think seeing him handle the point full time will make us want to move him back over to the two and draft a big, pass-first floor general.

PS when does thinking someone is a great, scoring combo guard "hating?"

Backtrack? I've said the same thing from the beginning.

Fact is, if you never make mistakes, you're not doing the right thing. You're not venturing out of your comfort zone.

There are two kinds of mistakes. There are bad mistakes, borne out of laziness, complacency, haste, and/or emotion, that will hold you back. There are good mistakes, made from an intelligent attempt to improve, that you need to encounter in order to succeed.

You guys don't want Monta to think. You want him to do what just comes naturally to him. Guess what...it comes naturally for a lot of people to sit on their ass and fart all day. You don't want him to be challenged. You don't want him to look at around the court, survey the situation, try to make smart decisions. YOU DON'T WANT HIM TO THINK. It was either you or Nick that said this....horrible. I don't want Monta to play the 1 because then he thinks too much.

Myth; there's such a thing as thinking too much.

No...what's bad is when you leave the thinking to game situations. When you prepare BETWEEN games, you don't even have to think that much during games. You repeat, repeat, repeat in practice so that it becomes natural. You've thought way more than the player who doesn't prepare and then when game time comes up is riddled with indecision.

But you don't trust Monta to avoid that trap. You underestimate him. You say he can't do it.

You're right, it's not hating. It's worse than hating. You're afraid that if he pushes the envelope he'll fail and be ruined as a player, and we'll be ruined as a team.

And what's worse, your fear isn't even followed by historical precedent. Undersized twos, how many of them have succeeded? 6'3 lightning quick players that improve constantly and have good heads on their shoulders---tailor made for the PG position. You don't have to be Chris Paul to be a championship point guard. Replace the dazzling court vision and flashy passing with sound fundamentals and smart decision-making...

That's all you need!

It'd be nice if your fear was backed by time-tested logic, but it isn't. Instead you try to pigeon-hole him into this one box as an undersized two in a league where undersized twos, what do you know it, never win. Why? Because this time, the limits are too much for a human to overcome.

Now that's cause for concern.

But making mistakes in the pursuit of growth? You're real immature and have no clue about the real world if you don't acknowledge that as necessary.

Just like when you or Nick (I get mixed up, can't help it) argued against my saying that it's bad to be result-oriented.

For you simplify it as a built-in excuse for next season shows how limited your thinking really is.

Thugleavy34 wrote:

Twinkie defense wrote:The preemptive excuse, I love it

Hahaha... it's funny to see you guys backtrack so fast to cover your asses, now that what you've been begging for is coming close to reality.

Monta will be a great player for the Warriors, but I still think seeing him handle the point full time will make us want to move him back over to the two and draft a big, pass-first floor general.

PS when does thinking someone is a great, scoring combo guard "hating?"

Backtrack? I've said the same thing from the beginning.

Fact is, if you never make mistakes, you're not doing the right thing. You're not venturing out of your comfort zone.

There are two kinds of mistakes. There are bad mistakes, borne out of laziness, complacency, haste, and/or emotion, that will hold you back. There are good mistakes, made from an intelligent attempt to improve, that you need to encounter in order to succeed.

You guys don't want Monta to think. You want him to do what just comes naturally to him. Guess what...it comes naturally for a lot of people to sit on their ass and fart all day. You don't want him to be challenged. You don't want him to look at around the court, survey the situation, try to make smart decisions. YOU DON'T WANT HIM TO THINK. It was either you or Nick that said this....horrible. I don't want Monta to play the 1 because then he thinks too much.

Myth; there's such a thing as thinking too much.

No...what's bad is when you leave the thinking to game situations. When you prepare BETWEEN games, you don't even have to think that much during games. You repeat, repeat, repeat in practice so that it becomes natural. You've thought way more than the player who doesn't prepare and then when game time comes up is riddled with indecision.

But you don't trust Monta to avoid that trap. You underestimate him. You say he can't do it.

You're right, it's not hating. It's worse than hating. You're afraid that if he pushes the envelope he'll fail and be ruined as a player, and we'll be ruined as a team.

And what's worse, your fear isn't even followed by historical precedent. Undersized twos, how many of them have succeeded? 6'3 lightning quick players that improve constantly and have good heads on their shoulders---tailor made for the PG position. You don't have to be Chris Paul to be a championship point guard. Replace the dazzling court vision and flashy passing with sound fundamentals and smart decision-making...

That's all you need!

It'd be nice if your fear was backed by time-tested logic, but it isn't. Instead you try to pigeon-hole him into this one box as an undersized two in a league where undersized twos, what do you know it, never win. Why? Because this time, the limits are too much for a human to overcome.

Now that's cause for concern.

But making mistakes in the pursuit of growth? You're real immature and have no clue about the real world if you don't acknowledge that as necessary.

Just like when you or Nick (I get mixed up, can't help it) argued against my saying that it's bad to be result-oriented.

For you simplify it as a built-in excuse for next season shows how limited your thinking really is.

amen.