Value of Ellis and Baron not a traitor

[cdubbz]

So how much do we value Monta Ellis? What kind of player do we expect him to be for the warriors in the future? Its contract time for ellis and it's time to get real and its time to put a real value in him. Personally, I don't think ellis is a franchise player at all, but I value him right around the all-star caliber player. I think it will be tough for ellis to become an all-star, but he can be on that tier of players. Ellis definitely impacts games and at times has shown ability to take over in situations, but I still dont see him worthy of a fat contract. Right now ellis is a great scorer and decent at best defender, but for him to be able to lead the Warriors he will need to step up his defense and up his assists per game . I do think he is a piece to build around, but not the franchise/superstar piece that every team needs to get over the hump. Without a superstar talent on the team, the warriors are gonna end up looking like the bulls: a lot of talented players none whom are all-stars that cant get over the hump. I just dont see ellis and biedrins being our franchise players and leading us to deep into the playoffs, or even into the playoffs without superior players.

On another note....Ever since baron left for the clippers a lot of people i know are calling him a traitor. They say he is a traitor because he claimed he loved the bay area, wanted to finish his career here and said he wasnt goin to opt out, then on the last hour he opted out and goes to a division rival. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with that...sure its a little messed up, but it happens all the time in pro sports where a team trades players without notice. So why do players have to tell an organization when they are gona leave? they dont have to. You have to see situations like this as a business person not as a fan. As a fan sure its messed up...baron lied to us and left us to go to the clippers. But as a business man, baron knew he was gona get screwed after this next year so he found a team dumb enough to pay him $65 million over 5 years. I'm just sick of people dissing baron for being a "Traitor" after all the excitement and buzz he brought to the bay area. Sure he waas injured quite a lot and chucked up some bad shots, but we still made it to the playoffs and beat the #1 seed two seed in 2007 and we missed the playoffs this season by one game...im def not blaming baron for that one game because it was a team effort. i just dont see how people can turn on baron so quickly.

[azwfan]

I didn't like baron before he was a Warrior and i dont like him now. If anything he should be thankful for me liking him for a period of time while he was here.

[BROWN]

Baron was a smart man by screwing the clips over, I would've hated the warrior organization if they signed him for 65 mil over 5 years.
Baron has 2 years left in him.

[Head Leader]

Why is Monta not a superstar?

i dont see any evidence to the contrary that monta can be on par with the level of scoring allen iverson has done throught his career. adding 3-4 more rebounds per game and maybe 1 less steal per game.. and im being generous with that.

If monta comes into this season being able to dribble with his left hand you can pretty much f'ng book that.

[Barkley+GS=Love]

You just lost a lot of respect as a poster.

Lets a few of the pure scorers who do nothing else who make the all-star game and are considered franchise talents: Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade(though he's less so than the others), among others.

Ellis is a stud already, and his ability to pass the ball is developing ridiculously fast as is Biedrins offensive game. If one of Bwright or Randolph develops we have a very pretty core. All we need is a shooting guard which are a dime a dozen.

[old rem]

Baron got a low ball offer then the stonewall. He wasn't feeling too welcome or respected. He had a side project ,a film about gangs in LA and wanted to help do something against gang violence. Brand wanted Baron who'd be enough to turn the Clips into something and would give up (?) some $$$ to be a winner. Baron LIKED the W's but the Clips (tampering?) went with a plan agents probably devised. Does it include under the table cash? Maybe.

Maybe Baron scanned Real GM and saw that half the hardcore would rather trade him anyhow-or preferred he walked. Maybe Cohen wants a $$ savings or Mullin wants to make a big time deal with sudden cap space. Us offering huge $$ to Arenas or Brand at least indicates its not all about cheap.
Ironically....we probably could have kept Baron with a less extreme paycut----which made sense. Now....perhaps the best outcome is we really go heavy for Josh Smith (shock + awe tactics) offer the legal limit and see how ATL reacts.

Josh Smith...Monta...Andris...Wright...Azu....whoever else....that is a 10 year core I'd like to have.

[WarFan]

People blaming Baron or calling him a traitor are just naive. It's pretty obvious that the Warriors never had any intention of extending him long-term (and I don't blame them at all), so when he saw his opportunity he took it. I've actually gained a little respect for him in the last few days because he hasn't tried to blame the organization for letting him go. Right now, he's taking a lot of the heat, coming from some fans, away from the front office and acting pretty professional about it (at least in public).

[BooRadley]

You're dead wrong about Monta, he's still developing and he's already scary. Looks like Monta wants $10 million a year from the wiretap. 5/$50. I'm thinking Warriors are trying to get him down to $8 mil.

I agree about Baron; he felt he might've been traded so he opted out and took a good deal. I don't see how that makes him a traitor. Sure a lot of fans who don't browse realgm daily won't know that he was a candidate to be traded so they might turn on him. But he'll take his $65 mil to the bank than to worry about that. He's better than what Carter did to the Raptors or any of these stars who get their extension and mega deal than demand to be traded. That's ridiculous. You have a mega deal cuz you're supposed to impact a franchise, and obviously you can't.

[old rem]

You just lost a lot of respect as a poster.

Lets a few of the pure scorers who do nothing else who make the all-star game and are considered franchise talents: Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade(though he's less so than the others), among others.

Ellis is a stud already, and his ability to pass the ball is developing ridiculously fast as is Biedrins offensive game. If one of Bwright or Randolph develops we have a very pretty core. All we need is a shooting guard which are a dime a dozen.

We probably have pretty nice SG candidates in Azubuike and Belinneli. With less than a full year in the NBA,Azu had a 30 pt game, several 20 pt games,was fast,had hops,had games of 8+ boards,blocked some shots......WTF....when has our LOTTO PICK done that in year one? Belli had his super summer game....was invisible for most of the season---got one game with reasonable minutes and scored 17.
Maybe those guys ain't Brandon Roy....but then again,neither was handed a starting gig.

We do still need Wright to evolve. Is he a PF who adds 15-20 lb and rebounds more? Is he a tall SF who never bulks up much but adds to his range and ballhandling/

Randolph + Hendrix? Right NOW.....Hendrix probably can play rotation minutes and Randolph-not quite. Hendrix is very much the Millsap/B Bass/Maxiel/Powe classic PF who these days is still VERY essential yet strangely undervalued on draft day. He HAS skills. He HAS strength. He is athletic in the context of Mobile + Strong. Some mis-define " Athletic" as just speed + hops. Athletic has to include power and body control and timing. Randolph at 6-10 or 6-11 but under 210 may MOVE like a guy who's 210.....which would include a lot of SG's but he's apt to lack the power or leverage for PF.
As he fills out,bulks up, the weight may reduce his quicks,hops,speed. Some guys "fill out" and retain a nice % of the "small guy" athletics. Some don't. It seems,so far, Randolph has some skills----none fully developed-in a lot of areas. As is....none are so reliable that he's got a niche in the NBA. A nifty thing is he has pushed the limits, has tried to include some finesse,ball handling,perimeter J, shot blocks, boards. There's a broad skillset----with nearly every part needing some polish. He's a fairly young freshman.

The Warriors ABILITY to take a project and get great results is still very much unproven. Nellie has been the big speedbump. Whatever teaching happened....Nellie failed,,,,,,F A I L E D...to make it relevant.

We don't really know if our assistant coachrs actually DO something. If they do-or don't....Nellie has obstructed the progress of every draft pick since he arrived-plus Diogu who had not quite got a regular role. Anywhere else,a top 20 pick is given ample chanse to be something. Here....a lotto pick gets 10 min to look like a star or he's in the dumpster. That is irrational.

We are not so good we can get away with much "irrational".

[Souvlaki]

Baron is not a traitor. He did us a favor by leaving, which is about the only thing I like about the guy.

Thanks Baron.

[Chris Cohan]

The story about Baron getting the best deal for himself is great.

He could have had $46 million GUaRANTEED in the first three years and then incentive possibilities to earn another $30 million. But yes, the guaranteed cash is sweet. Good for you, Baron, way to prove to the world you have no intention of playing hard for more than two or three more years!

Good riddance, we dodged a bullet.








Unless we match!

[cdubbz]

You just lost a lot of respect as a poster.

Lets a few of the pure scorers who do nothing else who make the all-star game and are considered franchise talents: Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Dwyane Wade(though he's less so than the others), among others.

Ellis is a stud already, and his ability to pass the ball is developing ridiculously fast as is Biedrins offensive game. If one of Bwright or Randolph develops we have a very pretty core. All we need is a shooting guard which are a dime a dozen.

haha I don't need your respect. I actually shouldnt be judging ellis this early, I'm just gona wait to see how ellis does this season to have an opinion. I want to see him with the bulk of the gaurd minutes and i want to see how he handles bein the point gaurd.

[old rem]

Why is Monta not a superstar?

i dont see any evidence to the contrary that monta can be on par with the level of scoring allen iverson has done throught his career. adding 3-4 more rebounds per game and maybe 1 less steal per game.. and im being generous with that.

If monta comes into this season being able to dribble with his left hand you can pretty much f'ng book that.

If Monta had the arrogance to fire in volume even if he was making 40%, he'd already match Iverson as a scorer Low % "volume shooters" whether Iverson,or (here) Sprewell-Starks,can get over-rated because having some games with big numbers is news. Monta gets his 20 efficiently. That's especially nice to see in a young guy in this era. Efficiency when it's team wide,gets you pretty far.

[Head Leader]

Why is Monta not a superstar?

i dont see any evidence to the contrary that monta can be on par with the level of scoring allen iverson has done throught his career. adding 3-4 more rebounds per game and maybe 1 less steal per game.. and im being generous with that.

If monta comes into this season being able to dribble with his left hand you can pretty much f'ng book that.

If Monta had the arrogance to fire in volume even if he was making 40%, he'd already match Iverson as a scorer Low % "volume shooters" whether Iverson,or (here) Sprewell-Starks,can get over-rated because having some games with big numbers is news. Monta gets his 20 efficiently. That's especially nice to see in a young guy in this era. Efficiency when it's team wide,gets you pretty far.

i tihnk unlike some star players monta understands the importance of taking a good shot, and playing within himself (to an extent)... far mroe then half these guys who just chuck up crazy shots to pad stats....

sounds familiar

[Coxy]

Baron got a low ball offer then the stonewall. He wasn't feeling too welcome or respected. He had a side project ,a film about gangs in LA and wanted to help do something against gang violence. Brand wanted Baron who'd be enough to turn the Clips into something and would give up (?) some $$$ to be a winner. Baron LIKED the W's but the Clips (tampering?) went with a plan agents probably devised. Does it include under the table cash? Maybe.

Maybe Baron scanned Real GM and saw that half the hardcore would rather trade him anyhow-or preferred he walked. Maybe Cohen wants a $$ savings or Mullin wants to make a big time deal with sudden cap space. Us offering huge $$ to Arenas or Brand at least indicates its not all about cheap.
Ironically....we probably could have kept Baron with a less extreme paycut----which made sense. Now....perhaps the best outcome is we really go heavy for Josh Smith (shock + awe tactics) offer the legal limit and see how ATL reacts.

Josh Smith...Monta...Andris...Wright...Azu....whoever else....that is a 10 year core I'd like to have.

I'll join that Josh Smith bandwagon for sure. The future would be pretty rosy if we could ink Josh in. No matter what anyone says, Josh Smith would be a MACHINE playing in our systems. Nellie ball was made for studs like Josh Smith. Period. Loose defense and all out attack. Hell, Josh Smith would be crazy not to salivate over that.
Baron did what was best for his movie career, whoops, I mean basketball career. No hard feelings because he gave me warm fuzzy feelings whilst he was here and I agree he has 2 years left before the inner Spielberg really takes over and he starts playing more like Jason Williams. Nothing in the NBA is forever, even MJ changed teams. I'm over it so let's move on and hurry up and woo Josh Smith!!!!!!!!!!!

[BROWN]

TO add tot his, ELLIS IS A STAR.
Dude is really really good at scoring, and you don't find many players with
his mentality.. dude's sick in the head (good way)..

you honestly lost me at when u wrote "i don't think ellis is a franchise player"

[The_Believer]

Baron was a smart man by screwing the clips over, I would've hated the warrior organization if they signed him for 65 mil over 5 years.
Baron has 2 years left in him.

He'll be a "good player" for several more years, but he won't be the early and PO version of him for much longer.

[nbenmargi]

TO add tot his, ELLIS IS A STAR.
Dude is really really good at scoring, and you don't find many players with
his mentality.. dude's sick in the head (good way)..

you honestly lost me at when u wrote "i don't think ellis is a franchise player"

+1

[rone415]

Ellis is star but let's see if he pans out to be the star of stars you all claim he'll be. Tay has improved greatly each year he's been in the league, but that was with a bigger star (BD) playin along side him. If we don't bring in a player who commands presense, I wonder how he'll do and how effecient he'll be. I guess we'll all have to see how this turns out.

It's great we have a young and upcoming team, but c'mon we were a move or two and a player two from improving to doing something special with this team in a few years. Giving BD an extension at 10 mil/year would of been worth it cause that's what it really came down to. Most of you are happy that BD is gone, but yall is going to eat your words if we don't bring a baller in who commands PRESENCE. This team will suffer in the loaded west. Yes, we have a ton a cap space but it's only good if you can bring in a star player to accept. If Brand doesn't sign, we'll be stuck in overpaying your second tier stars that money and then I guess you guys that'll be good cause you'll have more to beotch about.

[Mylie10]

Monta will average 25 per next year and probably around 6 + assists. He's shown that he can rebound the ball as well. But our rebounding should be much better this year anyhow.

Look for young Randolph and Monta becoming the fast past duo on the break. Randoplh to start the breaks and Monta to finish em.

If we can stay real focused and grab a ture PG with some size, then we'll be in real good shape.

I think Marcus Williams from Jersey has to be looked at and evaluated. I just think Frank is a bad fit for him. Frank won't let anybody except Kidd think for themselves. Our wide open style might be the perfect fit for Marcus.

His TO's are probably the product of looking over his shoulder and low confidence. He was one of the 3 best PG's coming out of his draft, so there's talent in there. It needs to be found. Nellie has a way of getting pG's motivated.

Arroyo or Marcus are the way we should be looking. Of course we don't want to get desparate and throw to much money or to many years at these kids.