Just Say No to Corey Maggette

[Chris Cohan]

I don't want him unless he'll come for three years, $25 million tops.

He misses too many games even though he can be one of the league's most productive scorers and a stronger rebounder than Harrington or Jackson. He only shoots the three at 33% for his career and that's not good enough for the Warriors. His overall FG percentages are OK and he'll get opponents into foul trouble but he's not a point guard and he's not my boyfriend.

So I say PUKE to a wildly reasonable short term deal for one of the league's top scorers from last year because he's such a huge injury risk and a total coach killer.

[Chris Cohan]

And furthermore, I think that giving a very athletic guy who gets to the rim as well as most in the league and who hits shots at 45% with a career high of 46%/low of 43%, like Corey Maggette, 15-18 shots per game is a bad idea when we could give 43 shots to two players who make their shots at 41% or 42%, respective relevant career lows of 39% and 40.5% (07-08)/highs of 44% (once, at 35 MPG, 63 total games) and 43.5% (at 28.2 MPG on a championship Spurs team).

I really do.

On second thought, career average differences like that are not substantial enough and I don't care about them at all. Jackson shoots the three way better than Maggette, anyway, and that's our offense and he's already used to it. So we should go with what works. Plus all of that great defense Jackson played for 20 games and part of the playoffs in 07 tips the scales.

And the swagger!!! Don't forget the swagger.

Jackson averaged 20 points per game in his first full year under Nelson.
Maggette can average 25.

I get the bitterness from Baron's biggest fans and I agree wholeheartedly with anger at any obscene deals or total status quo - though I don't write off the value of status quo as quickly as the Chicken Littles in the Mod Squad pot-stirrers. But I am fully on board for Maggette if the cost and duration are reasonable.

I'll step back from the Jackson hate - he's great value in the current scenario and if HE doesn't request a trade like he said he might if there's a total youth rebuild afoot, perhaps Flop and the Baron grievers would take THAT as credible support of the Warriors' offseason activity?

I suspect nothing will make them happy as their boyfriend leaves them for an ugly mistress.

Maggette, Ellis, and Jackson together could be very exciting. Jackson distributed much better with Baron off the court than he did with Baron on the court. The entire offense became a more typical Nelson ball movement offense without the Great Pounding volume streak shooter hoisting as his assists declined steadily post-All Star "snub." And Baron CANNOT move without the ball, Nelson didn't ask him to, and he dominated possession after possession. Maggette is one of the best off-ball subsidiary offensive players in the league (meaning he's a second or third option of significant quality, not a major money A option, for those not following along at home).

[Chris Cohan]

One calculation currently on the CBA board says the Warriors can pay Brand roughly $16.5 million this year if they renounce everyone but Ellis, Biedrins, Azubuike, and Watson (I think I read that right) and get the deal nailed down as their first order of bidness. Carl_Monday has been great with the usual suspects for CBA/salary calculations in this Warriors/Brand thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=821591&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

Let's play Clippers Basketball what-if for the Warriors, shall we?

Sixers GET Smith, let's say, but first agree to S&T Iguodala for Harrington or Jackson. Let's say Jackson since that gets the Sixers the most fake space as we dream of our best possible world. Let's chuck Busty their way since we've advertised his offseason work and plan to make him our extra point guard. He's got huge trade value, no doubt.

Iggy says OK to 5 years, $70 million, starting at, what, about $12.5 million? More or less, let's say $13 million to be on the safe side. Ship Jackson and Busty to the pre- cap space drained Josh Smith sweepstakes winning Sixers and we are left with another spare $7.5 millionish. $7.5 million + the remaining $3.5 million equals, HEY $11 million! We can sign Herr Maggette to a front-loaded deal, even! We could go max on Iggy!!!

(All from Sham + my total fabrications)
Al Harrington $9,226,250
Andre Iguodala $13-15 million
Adonal Foyle $6,900,000
Andris Biedrins $9.5 million
Brandan Wright $2,497,320
Kosta Perovic $1,944,000
Monta Ellis $10.5 million
Kelenna Azubuike $972,581
C.J. Watson $711,517
Corey Maggette $8 million. Whatever.

We're at $63-66 million? Can we still sign Hendrix and Randolph and stay below the luxury tax? Would we pay a million or three in luxury tax to have Iggy and Maggette next to our boys? Would we move Harrington for junk and luxury savings/a draft pick?

My technical/hypothetical team beats the living crap out of the Clippers' technical/hypothetical team. Kaman wouldn't even stay on the floor against that junk. Their backup? Tim Thomas? DeAndre Jordan? Minimum salary Paul Davis? Nick Fazekas?

[Abyss Impact]

I think we should get him. He is pretty good and will be like Stephen Jackson when he came here.

[Subaculta]

One calculation currently on the CBA board says the Warriors can pay Brand roughly $16.5 million this year if they renounce everyone but Ellis, Biedrins, Azubuike, and Watson (I think I read that right) and get the deal nailed down as their first order of bidness. Carl_Monday has been great with the usual suspects for CBA/salary calculations in this Warriors/Brand thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=821591&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

Let's play Clippers Basketball what-if for the Warriors, shall we?

Sixers GET Smith, let's say, but first agree to S&T Iguodala for Harrington or Jackson. Let's say Jackson since that gets the Sixers the most fake space as we dream of our best possible world. Let's chuck Busty their way since we've advertised his offseason work and plan to make him our extra point guard. He's got huge trade value, no doubt.

Iggy says OK to 5 years, $70 million, starting at, what, about $12.5 million? More or less, let's say $13 million to be on the safe side. Ship Jackson and Busty to the pre- cap space drained Josh Smith sweepstakes winning Sixers and we are left with another spare $7.5 millionish. $7.5 million + the remaining $3.5 million equals, HEY $11 million! We can sign Herr Maggette to a front-loaded deal, even! We could go max on Iggy!!!

(All from Sham + my total fabrications)
Al Harrington $9,226,250
Andre Iguodala $13-15 million
Adonal Foyle $6,900,000
Andris Biedrins $9.5 million
Brandan Wright $2,497,320
Kosta Perovic $1,944,000
Monta Ellis $10.5 million
Kelenna Azubuike $972,581
C.J. Watson $711,517
Corey Maggette $8 million. Whatever.

We're at $63-66 million? Can we still sign Hendrix and Randolph and stay below the luxury tax? Would we pay a million or three in luxury tax to have Iggy and Maggette next to our boys? Would we move Harrington for junk and luxury savings/a draft pick?

My technical/hypothetical team beats the living crap out of the Clippers' technical/hypothetical team. Kaman wouldn't even stay on the floor against that junk. Their backup? Tim Thomas? DeAndre Jordan? Minimum salary Paul Davis? Nick Fazekas?

I'm in... I agree with many here that Iguodola is the perfect SG to play alongside Monta - 15 might be a bit too rich for my blood, but I guess you have to over pay to get UFAs.

how about instead of going after Maggette, we try and work out a sign and trade of Harrington to the bulls for Deng - younger, better D, and a more efficient scorer.

Ellis
Iguodola
Deng
Wright
Biedrins

that's not a bad starting 5 to go forward with... a bit lacking in long range shooting, but great D, good passing, efficient shooting, and all young.

[Chris Cohan]

I SUPPOSE I could live with Deng over Harrington.
But if we're going there, don't we get:

Ellis/Watson
Iguodala/Azubuike
Maggette/Randolph
Deng/Wright/Hendrix
Biedrins/Hendrix/Perovic



Our "technically" team will torch the "technically" Clippers.
Book it!

[marciulionis13]

no to maggette, i cant stand watching this guy drive to the hoop with no skill and just jump into people trying to get fouls over and over again.

[Chris Cohan]

Very funny. Your avatar would not be your avatar if you didn't love that crap.

[GswStorm3]

no to maggette, i cant stand watching this guy drive to the hoop with no skill and just jump into people trying to get fouls over and over again.

Pretty much all he does, he's the classic high scorer on a crap team.

[Chris Cohan]

Way to quote Sleepy.
You folks are being pretty irrational about this.

[GswStorm3]

Just because almost no one is taking you're stance on Maggette should it make us irrational.

[Chris Cohan]

Actually, I don't think anyone other than Sleepy has even understood my stance, sport.

I'm all for Maggette at reasonable cost and a Jackson trade.
I'm not for paying Maggette more than $25 million over three years.

You folks are just saying "he sucks" and nothing else.
You'll excuse me if I fail to see a "position" in there.

[Sleepy51]

Actually, I don't think anyone other than Sleepy has even understood my stance, sport.

I'm all for Maggette at reasonable cost and a Jackson trade.
I'm not for paying Maggette more than $25 million over three years.

You folks are just saying "he sucks" and nothing else.
You'll excuse me if I fail to see a "position" in there.

I think you're also misunderstanding the "he sucks" crowd. You are looking at Maggs vs. nothing. Everyone else is looking at Maggs vs. all other options.

He "sucks" relative to the promise of Josh or Iggy in terms of players that we would want to retain long term as part of a core. Most of this conversation was looking at the various FA's 1) in comparison to one another . . . 2) our current vacancy in the backcourt . . . and 3) the perpetual search for a frontcourt scorer, plus, no one brought up clearing out Jackon to make room for Maggs until you and I discussed it explicitly. The people who aren't fans of Maggs are not being irrational, they are just looking at different priorities than you.

[loflin3hree5ive]

Somebody said in a different thread that Maggette was meant to play for Don Nelson. I agree with that. I think a lot of complaints about Corey would be negated by playing with Nelson. Dunleavy and Maggette were a match made in hell. Let Corey loose a little, and results will follow. Just my two cents.

[Sleepy51]

Somebody said in a different thread that Maggette was meant to play for Don Nelson. I agree with that. I think a lot of complaints about Corey would be negated by playing with Nelson. Dunleavy and Maggette were a match made in hell. Let Corey loose a little, and results will follow. Just my two cents.

I guess I'd be fine replacing Jack with Maggs, but only because I really don't like Jack's behavior more than anyhing. But Don Nelson isn't going to make Maggs a passer. If we add a free agent without unloading any vets, it has to be someone who improves how we move the ball. No more ball players.

I want Iggy. In lieu of that, I'd rather keep the capspace out of Nellie's hands and let the young guys learn to play basketball.

[Chris Cohan]

Actually, I don't think anyone other than Sleepy has even understood my stance, sport.

I'm all for Maggette at reasonable cost and a Jackson trade.
I'm not for paying Maggette more than $25 million over three years.

You folks are just saying "he sucks" and nothing else.
You'll excuse me if I fail to see a "position" in there.

I think you're also misunderstanding the "he sucks" crowd. You are looking at Maggs vs. nothing. Everyone else is looking at Maggs vs. all other options.

He "sucks" relative to the promise of Josh or Iggy in terms of players that we would want to retain long term as part of a core. Most of this conversation was looking at the various FA's 1) in comparison to one another . . . 2) our current vacancy in the backcourt . . . and 3) the perpetual search for a frontcourt scorer, plus, no one brought up clearing out Jackon to make room for Maggs until you and I discussed it explicitly. The people who aren't fans of Maggs are not being irrational, they are just looking at different priorities than you.

That's all true for most, but the two in this thread were definitely just saying he sucks.

We have two RFAs that I'd rather have than overbid on Iguodala, Smith, etc., to pry them away from their current teams, for what it's worth. I much prefer the Childress afterplay to the Smith "he's a franchise player!" overplay some are calling for (blindly, it would seem).

The RFA market is not like the UFA market and if folks are really comparing the reported Maggette interest to the vastly different and more difficult Iguodala/Smith/Deng UNreported interest, they haven't been following the league's offseason activity in recent years very closely.

It's an unfair comparison.

Dollars to doughnuts, 3 years/$25 million for Corey Maggette is a very sound NBA investment.
I don't want him more than life itself, I just see the value. In a FAIR comparison, paying $17.8 million for the year we just got out of Baron or WORSE, and NOT trading him as soon as he was out expiring contract, makes me quite sick to my stomach relative to paying $8 million for a year of standard Maggette work.

But some folks really wanted that, it seems. Or worse, they wanted MULTIPLE years of that slop!

[Sleepy51]

Dollars to doughnuts, 3 years/$25 million for Corey Maggette is a very sound NBA investment.
I don't want him more than life itself, I just see the value.

I would see the value if we were already good and needed to add a complimentary scorer, but he would instantly assume the #2 option here (wasn't that one of your arguments in favor of him taking our money over other options.) Nellie would ask/allow him to take the same 20 shots per game that we got tired of Baron taking. Those are shots that Dre has already earned, and Brandan needs a share of to be properly evaluated. I don't want any more selfish players. That era is over.

But again, if we really are now talking about dealing Jack and Maggs taking HIS bad shots, I can live with it.

But I don't see Nellie letting his pet go. He probably wants Jack "shaping" all of our young guys, and is grooming him for the bench.

[richboy]

Who would pay Iggy the max? He not close to worth it. He was perhaps the most exposed player in the playoffs in the NBA. He showed why he is the third best player on a championship team and you want to give him the max. I love Iggy but I love him as a great compliment to greater players. To pay Iggy the max is ridiculous. He is a mediocre shooter. He can't create off the dribble. He will struggle against good defensive teams that force him to play in the half court and don't make mistakes.

Next it looks like for what your paying Iggy you could sign Corey and another player. Its debatable if Iggy is better than Corey alone. I could see the Warriors getting Corey and JR Smith for what your paying Iggy alone.

[Mylie10]

I'd rsther keep Jax around at his current 7 million and ride him out until the trade deadline and see what happens. If we are in the hunt for an unforseen eigth playoff spot, then hold onto the old powder keg. If we are floundering and thinking for next year, then deal Jax to a playoff team and grab some assets.

Maggette is ok, but he slows the pace down. He belongs on the Spurs. I'd rather all of those shots go to the youngs guys as Sleepy said.

Having said that, if we keep Jax and Maggette comes in at a reasonable price (doubt it), then the fact that he's a known commodity has it's upside.

Overall, stay away and look at Childress. More versatile, and wayyyyyyy cheaper. Childress fits.

[Chris Cohan]

Mylie,

Agree completely about the Childress-before-Maggette opinion and I know some of us were very up on Childress long before the vicious backlash against all Maggette talk in the wake of post-Baron shock and "Josh Smith is a max player" idiocy.

If Philadelphia really feels Atlanta is still financially handcuffed and makes a true offer, it may not be big enough to really squeeze the Hawks when it comes to Childress. If they're serious about Smith, they can go to about $12 million, right? By my count, that would have the Hawks paying $55 million, possibly more, before they get to the Childress contract. They can go as high as $10 million, maybe more, and still not hit the luxury threshold. I think that's way too much for Childress, first of all.

Atlanta has Bibby and Pachulia potentially coming off the books and Al Horford and Marvin Williams due to be extended their big QO next year and perhaps being retained longterm. Or not.

The problem I see for us trying to land Childress is that Atlanta, if it keeps Smith, can no longer be considered afraid of or unable to make longterm big money commitments and may even have to be considered an AGGRESSIVE market force. The question becomes value relative to cost, so they might have a stop point. We'd need to know that it was not too high for us. They have big cap relief coming up, so Sund may play loose. But they also have some major commitments to make to Horford, Smith, Childress, Williams, and perhaps Law, besides having to fill their upcoming hole at C and having to figure out whether or not to let Bibby go and hand the reigns to Law (doubtful by returns on Law to date, but we'll see), play the UFA market next year, or do something now.

Childress and/or Williams might be available for draft considerations, perhaps even for the return of Al Harrington. But Atlanta is a bit of a mystery so far with Sund in place and no sense of how far they're willing to extend themselves on their in house talent.