Bears/Eagles post game.

[emperorjones]

Missed the game as I am back in Ethiopia for 2 weeks. From the stats, it doesn't seem that KO was all that different from an average to bad Rex game. Did he seem more in control than Rex often did?

[chitownsports4ever]

Still talking about Rex ?

The bottomline is the Bears as a team has changed but Rex never did . he was making the same mistakes he always did and unlike the SB year the defense and special teams could no longer save him.

Fumbles and INT's are what they are no matters whose throwing them. What killed Rex wasnt the turnovers but his lack of poise ,leadership,and the ability to learn from his mistakes . Its not always that you make mistakes but when you make them.

Kyle made some bad plays but on that last fg drive he made a key audible to that screen pass that Forte picked up the key first down on. Those are things that Rex was just simply unable to do and are key to the current makeup of the Chicago bears . Orton is 25 years old which makes him one of the younger Qb's in our conference. He was never touted a finished product and both he and our offense was considered a work in progress.

At first the argument was that Orton couldnt make the plays now hes just benefiting from the way these TOP defenses are playing him ? A couple of weeks ago we had no vertical game and it was gonna kill our season but Orton is tied for 8th with 20 passes over 20 yards or more.. This is with a top receiver who didnt catch 10 balls last year and a offensive line who many claimed was the worse in the league when the season started.

Most came into the season with lowered expectations on offense but Im happy I can say the offense has exceeded my expectations and is improving every game.

[CjayC]

One of the INT's wasn't even Orton's fault it was the receivers. The one that was in the redzone was the killer however.

I'll deal with the two fumbles though. Fumbles happen to any QB especially as the pocket is collapsing, and there is that split second where the QB is ready to deliver the ball down field. That will happen. As long as he doesn't throw the ball away trying to attempt silly passes that are damn near impossible to complete I'll live with that, and so far he has succeeded in that aspect

[NoahISmyNinja]

Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't mind seeing Vasher at Free. He makes great plays on the ball when he is near it, but he can't cover anybody. I'd rather see CG21 lineup next to Tillman on Sundays

[batman_crip14]

One of the INT's wasn't even Orton's fault it was the receivers. The one that was in the redzone was the killer however.

I'll deal with the two fumbles though. Fumbles happen to any QB especially as the pocket is collapsing, and there is that split second where the QB is ready to deliver the ball down field. That will happen. As long as he doesn't throw the ball away trying to attempt silly passes that are damn near impossible to complete I'll live with that, and so far he has succeeded in that aspect

everyone fumbles/the receivers fault? sounds like another excuse that has been used for rex but vetoed but now its okay because Orton is our QB. Just stop with the double standards.

But the knock I have against Orton is he is allergic to open receivers. There was one play where he had all day to throw and he rolled out left and had Booker run a curl route and the DB fell asleep on Booker which lead to Booker running a fade/Orton saw this and threw it out of bounds over Bookers head. Booker came running to the line of scrimmage shaking his head.(2nd half)
Sure KO made some plays in the first half, finally grabbed his nuts and threw it to a receiver with a DB trailing them, but more times than not, he will throw it out of bounds.
IMO chitownsports4ever, 2007 was not a year for anyone to be evaluated on because that team was straight garbage. No QB had shown any improvement with that OL, with the exception of RG until he got hurt at the end of the season. KO wasn't all that spectacular, but i've seen people praise his game against the Packers that year because he threw twice and handed the ball of 45 times in that horrible weather game. There was improvement with Rex's game but not enough to completely get back chicagos trust/KO has shown flashes but its only been by quarters and halves instead of complete games. Both are inconsistent

[dougthonus]

At first the argument was that Orton couldnt make the plays now hes just benefiting from the way these TOP defenses are playing him ? A couple of weeks ago we had no vertical game and it was gonna kill our season but Orton is tied for 8th with 20 passes over 20 yards or more.. This is with a top receiver who didnt catch 10 balls last year and a offensive line who many claimed was the worse in the league when the season started.

Orton has definitely played better than I've expected, but there is a lot of symmetry to how he started this season off and how the Bears started off in 2006 under Grossman. He's looked good only when teams have failed to get pressure and played the run to an extremely heavy degree. On the plus side, he's looked a bit better each week I'd say. I'm definitely far more hopeful about him now than I was at the start of the season.

I'm still skeptical about his ability to maintain this level of performance, but I'm still impressed, he doesn't have much to work with.

[Howling Mad]

Orton had a great first half.

Then, Otron had a so so second half, but when he needed to make decisions, he made them correctly. The audible Chitown mentioned is the most significant one.

If Rex had a first half like that, he would've continued to come out slinging and I highly doubt he would've been able to make the "management" (...hate that phrase) decisions that Orton made.

I'm not saying Rex can't have that success in the first half, because he's had better, much better. But football is about adjustments and ORton is slowly showing me he can adjust.


Early in the game they lined up 8, sometimes 9 in the box. Specifically they had their cornerbacks playing close to the line of scrimmage. When this happens you expect the cornerback to try to jam the receivers, but they didn't. Instead they did two different things, either they dropped back into zone(faking the blitz), or they came in for the blitz. This is Philly trying to take advantage of the matchups. Corners vs. receivers.

This was weird because, like usual, our receivers are over matched, and when you have an elite core of cornerbacks(like the Eagles do) you just play man and completely take out the receivers. Instead they completely disregarded our passing game and used their corners to help on the running D.

There's no way to tell if Orton made audibles to attack against this but the majority of the pass plays in the first half were quick forming and perfectly timed in the 12-15 yard range, which is the exact thing to do against cornerbacks trying to do too much.

This is very similar to how Orton operated at Purdue, quick forming pass plays, so it wasn't a surprise to see him succeed.

In the second half things changed they sent in one(two) less guy, and they started to play man D on our receivers. They also dropped the cornerbacks a little bit in their zone, pretty much giving us the 4-6 yard gain, but taking away the pass plays Orton was successful at in the first half, 12-15 yard range.

They forced Orton to make the throw that he's absolutely brutal at. The cover 2 killer throw. To the sidelines, between zones 2 and 3, right over the corner and linebacker, but still under the safety.

All that led to less success in the passing game, but giving Forte more room, which led to several successful screen plays and dive runs.


With the Bears giving Orton that much flexibility( making audible calls), opening up the playbook, I see a grwoth in trust coming from the coaching staff to Orton. I don't thing Rex ever got to the point where he was making audibles and reading defenses like Orton was reading them.

[dougthonus]

Then, Otron had a so so second half, but when he needed to make decisions, he made them correctly. The audible Chitown mentioned is the most significant one.

If Rex had a first half like that, he would've continued to come out slinging and I highly doubt he would've been able to make the "management" (...hate that phrase) decisions that Orton made.

Orton after the half was:
In 8 possessions:
3 for 10 for 25 yards (17 of which was on a dump off to Forte who did all the work)
1 interception in the red zone
2 fumbles lost

No offense, but that's about as bad as a QB could play. 3 turnovers on 8 possessions, only 3 completions, only 1 for a 1st down.

The team would have been better off if in the second half they kneeled three times and then went for a FG/Punt depending on field position rather than letting Orton take the ball under center. They would have scored just as many points (3), would have killed far more time off the clock, rested their defense for longer, and given their defense better field position. In the half, Orton was worse at QB than just flat out kneeling.

Seriously, how the heck do you think he 'managed the game' in the second half? That's as bad as basically any half Rex has ever had as well. The only positive plays we had in the entire second half on offense were runs by Forte and a dump off pass to Forte. Orton was only involved in one good play (and even then Forte generated most of the yards) the entire second half while causing 3 turnovers including one in the red zone. That's not game management or good decision making. Orton was an absolute train wreck in the second half. It's amazing the defense stepped up.

[Howling Mad]

Now yoru going to make me look at the play-by-play...

One half doesn''t make a game.

I don't take the first half and call Orton a succesful QB, and I don't take the second half and call him the worst QB in the league.

I take the game as a whole and impressed at how Orton is growing.



If Orton kneeled down three times he wold've never picked up the defensive adjustments, and therefor never been able to make the right reads. There were a few times the Bears were setup to pass and Orton audibled.

Both sacks in the second half were coverage sacks. When Philly started using their CB for coverage and not helping on run D, the quick forming pass plays were eliminated.

The INT that came out of the end zone was the third pass play of the half. By then I doubt Kyle or the Bears coaching staff knew what adjustments Philly made at halftime. Orton's fumble I have no defense for, I hate it when our QB's fumble, but how often Rex fumbled the ball, I think Orton did fine in that regard.

Like I said, they dropped the CB further back in the zone, and stopped crowding the line. They gave us the short gain, but we didn't take advantage of it until the most significant moments.

For most of the second half the Bears stuck with their gameplan, -make the linebackers go into coverage. Look at several of the pass plays in the second half, a bunch of different receivers, most of the times covered by a linebacker. This wasn't Orton spreading out his targets, but more so attacking the linebackers.

Orton and the Bear coaching staff kept the screen play in their back pocket and BOOM... used it at the right times.

It was Orton's decision to pick out the right times, not too often, but in a significant moment. We had Philly baited. They crowded, crowded crowded the line and then finally started to sag midway into the third, and thats when we started running down the gut.

If this was Rex, it would've been pass pass pass all game, all into the 15 yard area. That doesn't set up anything. From what I remember Rex couldn't make the 5 yard flank pass, he under threw it A LOT. You can't expect to pass all game into the same area without setting up other parts of yoru offense, and you can't have a QB that can't make defensive reads.

Stats only tell part of the story, and I disregarded the stats because Orton made game management decisions at crucial times.

...not to mention 3 pinpoint TD throws.

[dougthonus]

If Orton kneeled down three times he wold've never picked up the defensive adjustments, and therefor never been able to make the right reads. There were a few times the Bears were setup to pass and Orton audibled.

I think you missed my point.

The Bears offense would have been more productive if it kneeled every play of the second half compared to what it did. There would have been no need to set up a pass or audible. Simply kneeling would have yielded better resorts than Orton in the second half.

I've got no problem saying Orton had a great 1st half. He did. However, I don't see how you can even remotely argue that he 'managed the game' in the second half, especially in a way that Grossman "couldn't" do. Seriously, this is not hyperbole. The Bears would have been just as well off kneeling as running any play in the second half.

[batman_crip14]

If Orton kneeled down three times he wold've never picked up the defensive adjustments, and therefor never been able to make the right reads. There were a few times the Bears were setup to pass and Orton audibled.

I think you missed my point.

The Bears offense would have been more productive if it kneeled every play of the second half compared to what it did. There would have been no need to set up a pass or audible. Simply kneeling would have yielded better resorts than Orton in the second half.

I've got no problem saying Orton had a great 1st half. He did. However, I don't see how you can even remotely argue that he 'managed the game' in the second half, especially in a way that Grossman "couldn't" do. Seriously, this is not hyperbole. The Bears would have been just as well off kneeling as running any play in the second half.

+2. Should I hold you back now Doug? haha
Are people really that blind on that fact that Orton really progressed as the game went on? Yeah he looked Pro Bowl material for maybe 20min, but he was doodoo flushed down then clogged in the drain after.
He is making babysteps on trying to make his game better, but nothing to be "oh he is making huge improvements in his game, he makes a lot audibles which makes him really smart, he steps up in the pocket a lot" Only person I have seen who makes adjustments to the Defense and be about 99% right is Peyton Manning. KO tries to emulate but i would say only get about 20% of the adjustment right. Which is why i call him Kyle Manning.
Reason why Doug mentioned kneeling is that it would have actually killed time which would mean you are managing a lead.

[Howling Mad]

Kneeling three times coming out of halftime is a completely hypothetical situation.

I'll take baby steps forward over moonwalking.

Reading the defense 20% of the time is better than never reading the defense at all.

When you don't step up in the pocket you end up throwing several interceptions off your back foot.

If Peyton Manning was 99% right on his audibles he'd be the best QB ever and probably undefeated.

I credit Philly's defense making adjustments over Orton playing like crap.


Reality of it is, Orton played well. Well enough to set up and bait the Philly defense. Thats something Rex couldn't do.

It wasn't until the last quarter you saw our running game click into action, and without the success of Orton's first half play he would've never had the chance to audible into the game saving drive.

What do you want from Orton. 150+ passing rating, 4 touchdowns, and a 75% clip?

The guy made the audible to win the game! Audibles... thats a game-management element.

[SLCceltic]

Kneeling three times coming out of halftime is a completely hypothetical situation.

I'll take baby steps forward over moonwalking.

Reading the defense 20% of the time is better than never reading the defense at all.

When you don't step up in the pocket you end up throwing several interceptions off your back foot.

If Peyton Manning was 99% right on his audibles he'd be the best QB ever and probably undefeated.

I credit Philly's defense making adjustments over Orton playing like crap.


Reality of it is, Orton played well. Well enough to set up and bait the Philly defense. Thats something Rex couldn't do.

It wasn't until the last quarter you saw our running game click into action, and without the success of Orton's first half play he would've never had the chance to audible into the game saving drive.

What do you want from Orton. 150+ passing rating, 4 touchdowns, and a 75% clip?

The guy made the audible to win the game! Audibles... thats a game-management element.

Definately agree