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I always seem to make enemies with this one... even though I don't think I say anything bad... but what do you guys say?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8242e007/article/bears-hester-has-strong-argument-for-hall-of-fame?module=HP11_content_stream

I'll just copy n paste what I wrote somewhere else...

I think returners typically don't get in cause they are more or less, one hit wonders. But Hester has been incredibly successful in a little time (albeit, enough time to show he has longevity). I feel pretty confident that he'll get in.

One thing to add... people have to drop the "he is the most dominant returner in NFL history". That is not a good argument.

How could he not be in the HOF? He's the greatest returner of all time period.

SoulEater7 wrote:How could he not be in the HOF? He's the greatest returner of all time period.

So, if Hester didn't exist... who would be the "greatest returner of all time" and would he be in the HOF?

organix85 wrote:

SoulEater7 wrote:How could he not be in the HOF? He's the greatest returner of all time period.

So, if Hester didn't exist... who would be the "greatest returner of all time" and would he be in the HOF?

With that logic, you'd never be able to start a HOF.

Hester should be voted in IMO simply because he's likely to break the all time record in 100 fewer games than Dion Sanders. 100 FEWER GAMES. That is just unheard of. If we are to believe all the coach speak that there are 3 phases to the game, then at the very least, the greatest all-time at a position should be in the HOF.

emperorjones wrote:With that logic, you'd never be able to start a HOF.

Maybe if your basis for HOF induction requires him to be the best at his position. But in that case, we'd need the best punter in the HOF too... and the best special team coverage guy, right? They are part of that 3rd phase.

As I said, I think he deserves to be in the HOF, but for other reasons.

And what is the story with Deion? Those count interceptions/fumble recoveries too, right? They don't seem at all related.

He impacts the game like no other special teams player has in the past, imo. I'm not sure if he's in the hall of fame right now, probably not. But if he keeps up this pace for at least 1 more season, I think he'll get in easily. He's only 29, so hopefully he keeps up for at least 3 more years.

charity stripe wrote:He impacts the game like no other special teams player has in the past, imo. I'm not sure if he's in the hall of fame right now, probably not. But if he keeps up this pace for at least 1 more season, I think he'll get in easily. He's only 29, so hopefully he keeps up for at least 3 more years.

That's just. Ignore the numbers and look at the impact he has on the game. Teams are happy to kick the ball out of bounds and give up 10 yards of field position every single time rather than kicking it to him. The teams that don't often get burned with either a TD or a big return. That impact on field position is a big reason the Bears have won as many games as they have with a pretty bad offense for during Hester's career with the Bears.

organix85 wrote:

emperorjones wrote:With that logic, you'd never be able to start a HOF.

But in that case, we'd need the best punter in the HOF too... and the best special team coverage guy, right? They are part of that 3rd phase.

And what is the story with Deion? Those count interceptions/fumble recoveries too, right? They don't seem at all related.

Yes. I see no logic to not having a special teams section to the HOF. Ray Guy would be the punter. If he's the best to consistently over a career to do something in the history of the game, why wouldn't/shouldn't he be in the Hall. And if there was a coverage guy that for a career stood head and shoulders above every other coverage guy in history (imagine a guy that covered as good as Hester returns -wow) he should be in the Hall too. So a total of 3 players extra in the HOF. And i agree with you that Hester is one. However I'm not sure what you mean when you say for other reasons?

emperorjones wrote:

organix85 wrote:

emperorjones wrote:With that logic, you'd never be able to start a HOF.

But in that case, we'd need the best punter in the HOF too... and the best special team coverage guy, right? They are part of that 3rd phase.

And what is the story with Deion? Those count interceptions/fumble recoveries too, right? They don't seem at all related.

Yes. I see no logic to not having a special teams section to the HOF. Ray Guy would be the punter. If he's the best to consistently over a career to do something in the history of the game, why wouldn't/shouldn't he be in the Hall. And if there was a coverage guy that for a career stood head and shoulders above every other coverage guy in history (imagine a guy that covered as good as Hester returns -wow) he should be in the Hall too. So a total of 3 players extra in the HOF. And i agree with you that Hester is one. However I'm not sure what you mean when you say for other reasons?

I'll say that I don't disagree with Ray Guy. My point was more that they haven't put him in and that speaks volumes about how they feel. I know you didn't imply anything, but I just want to make that clearer.

As for my reasons, if I were to have the unfortunate job of having to argue for Hester, I'd focus on how he single-handedly won games... how teams feared his game changing ability... how dominant he could be. Of course, you can't say those things without mentioning he's a kick returner... But I guess the best wording I have is that I would make his position a footnote to the story of his greatness. There is just a negativity behind it that I wouldn't want to have to base my argument off of. I just feel saying he's the best returner is an uphill battle.

I saw this today...

Of the current 44 Hall of Fame voters, 26 of them responded and one declined an interview request from the Sun-Times about Hester. Tony Grossi of the Cleveland Plain Dealer was the only voter reached by the Sun-Times to say he doesn’t believe specialists should be in the Hall of Fame.

“If we recognize a player solely based on his specialty, then where do we draw the line? The best long-snapper of all time? The best coverage linebacker? The best short-yardage blocker?” Grossi said in an e-mail. “I would not elect Hester based exclusively on his returns record. He’s a spectacular touchdown-maker in that role, but I just think a Hall of Famer needs to be a complete football player.”

Source

Cliff Levingston wrote:

charity stripe wrote:He impacts the game like no other special teams player has in the past, imo. I'm not sure if he's in the hall of fame right now, probably not. But if he keeps up this pace for at least 1 more season, I think he'll get in easily. He's only 29, so hopefully he keeps up for at least 3 more years.

That's just. Ignore the numbers and look at the impact he has on the game. Teams are happy to kick the ball out of bounds and give up 10 yards of field position every single time rather than kicking it to him. The teams that don't often get burned with either a TD or a big return. That impact on field position is a big reason the Bears have won as many games as they have with a pretty bad offense for during Hester's career with the Bears.

This. He impacts the game in so many more ways than 17 touchdowns off returns. He makes opponents plan for an aspect of the game that usually gets very little planning. He changes field position, he affects how an opposing offense runs because they don't want to risk getting him the ball. He changes so many more aspects of the game than just the return game. He affects the overall strategy of an opponent. And he makes the Bears maybe the only team in the NFL that uses all three units in balance to win games.

He's not just a return man, he has revolutionized how this team operates and how this league prepares to play the Bears.

Hall of Famer? Damn right he is.

Right now, this is worthy of debate.

He'd get my vote.

Still, what he needs to do is put the record so far out there that there's general consensus that he not only is the best returner ever, but that he'll forever be the best returner ever.

Get 'er done, Devin.

“If we recognize a player solely based on his specialty, then where do we draw the line? The best long-snapper of all time? The best coverage linebacker? The best short-yardage blocker?” Grossi said in an e-mail. “I would not elect Hester based exclusively on his returns record. He’s a spectacular touchdown-maker in that role, but I just think a Hall of Famer needs to be a complete football player.”

While I get this argument, it's easily debunked.

Has any NFL team ever been scared of the opposing punter, field goal kicker, or long snapper? Have they game planned around those players and changed the way they approach the game vs any other opponent to adapt to them? The answer is no. That's why Hester is different.

Coverage linebacker and short yardage blocker aren't positions, just specialized skills at a specific position.

I initially was thinking "no" when pondering myself whether Devin Hester goes to the hall of fame, but then I stop and think, "this is a guy teams fear every game and game plan around who has individually won games for his team". From that perspective, I think it might be a yes, the only question is has he had a big enough impact enough times to do get in?

I think I am with the Transplant thought here. If he sets the record so far out of reach, that he's not only the record holder, but a guy who will likely hold it for 50+ years or something ridiculous because no one can possibly touch it then I'd say you put him. How many more return TDs does he need to feel like the record is completely put away for generations? 4-5? With the new rules, you could argue he may already hold it for generations.

I mean he's already 4 ahead of the second place guy, and it's more if you count the one he had in the superbowl [which for some reason no one counts, why wouldn't it count? it should count double since it was in the fricken superbowl] or the missed field goal return.

Either way, if he could theoretically get to 26 returns (possibly a stretch since that's 9 away) and double up the second place guy, I think it'd be very difficult to deny him. In the low 20s, I think he has a good chance. If he retired today, I don't think he'd get in.

One wonders how many more return TDs Devin would have if he was the primary kick returner in the 2009 and 2010 seasons when it was someone's bright idea to let him concentrate more on his WR duties and limit him to punts.